| Author |
Message |
    
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5280
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 4:28 pm: | 
|
Maybe someone knows the answer to this so I don't have to call the courts. I was told by a friend of mine when someone owes you money and they refuse to pay you can take them to court and sue for triple damages. How true is this?
The amount owed started out as $2000 cash, $360 on one credit card and a little more then $3000 on another from early 2004. It's now ballooned to a little more then $6,000. I'm having enough trouble getting this money, what makes my friend think I'd be able to get three times that?
It's to the point I have decided I'm going to give this person once last chance to pay, then I'm going to take them to Small Claims Court. I sent the person a letter in March itemizing the payments they've made and the payments I've had to make to the credit card company the full year they paid nothing. I show the fiance charges etc. They called me on the phone, 20 March yelled at me, cussed at me and threatened me with bodily harm. Also said they didn't owe that much and was going to come over to pay me what they thought they owed me then I can go F myself.
Here we are in June and they have still not come over like they said they were going to do. Any suggestions? BTW I would have no problem proving the money is owed to me.
|
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7932
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 4:42 pm: |
|
Anything over $3k (or is it $5k?) in NJ goes to Special Civil Court up to $15k. The only thing that I can think of is the "intent to commit fraud" penalty (or whatever it's called). If the person intended to defraud you (i.e., promised to pay back money and never intended to do so) you could be awarded more, but I can't remember if it's double or triple.
It's the call of the arbitrator/judge and you should include it in your complaint when you file. |
John Caffrey
Citizen
Username: Jerseyjack
Post Number: 286
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 5:22 pm: |
|
Log onto New Jersey Law Network and post your question on the general information section. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5283
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 8:24 pm: |
|
Thanks Greenie, I think you're right over a certain amount it is Special Civil.
John
I googled "New Jersey Law Network" and it came back with lots of choices! 21,500 to be exact! 
Should I use njlawnet.com or the Rutger's site? Thanks!
You'd think I'd learn from past experiences when it comes to lending money... |
John Caffrey
Citizen
Username: Jerseyjack
Post Number: 287
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 8:53 pm: |
|
njlawnet.com
You get several lawyers reading the posts and giving their opinions/guidance |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 1131
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 9:44 pm: |
|
Are there usury laws in New Jersey?
TomR |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5292
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 1:36 am: |
|
TomR
Do you know the person who owes me the money? LOL He tried to say I charged him 100% interest. My response to him was 'That's usury!' I most certainly didn't do that.
The total started out at $5,497.00. He promised to pay me the $2000 cash back at the end of that week. I had now idea the amount of the credit card until a few weeks later. When he didn't pay me back the cash, he told me he'd pay me 6% interest on the cash which would have been $180 if it were a year loan. I divided that by 12 and told him $15 a month would be added on each month he didn't pay me back in full. He agreed to that.
Even worse, he was only supposed to use my Amex Card to make two charges for a couple of hundred dollars. He maxed it out, going over my credit limit on a card I had since I was 17. Luckily it only had a $3,000 credit line. To this day I thank God I found that Amex card and didn't loan him the card I had originally planned to let him use. Otherwise I would have had more serious problems! I was in total shock when I got my statement and saw how much he charged on the Amex card!
He agreed to 6% interest on the cash ($2000.00) which $180. When you add in all the $200 payments I made on the card the whole year he paid nothing that alone comes to over $1,000. The last payment made was $1000 25 December 2005. The one before that $200 on 27 Dec 2004 and that check bounced. He also missed a payment or two in 2004.
Altogether he's paid $1,600 toward what he owes. After paying $200 a month myself for almost a year a couple of people persuaded me to just make the minimum payment each month. Which was basically a little over the fiance charge each month. At that point I didn't care if it wasn't getting paid off quickly.
I warned him this was what I was doing and that in the long run it was going to end up costing him more with the monthly 18% interest the credit company charges. I never cared what the interest rate was because I had always paid this card off in full each month and hadn't used it in several months when he maxed it out (which is why I couldn't find it at first).
I felt bad for him paying so much interest so back in March 2006 I transferred the balance from the card to a card I had with a special 1% fiance charge through Sept 2006. I then added what the total amount he currently owed including the payment I had already made and transferred the difference from my other card onto this one. Why should I have been paying interest on a card I would have had paid off by now if I hadn't be paying off what he charged as well?
Since he hollered at me in March, and one of the things he said was he had all the stubs from the payments he made and he can prove he paid me back, he hasn't paid a cent. I told him it was great he had this proof. I challenged him to bring it with him that night when he said he was coming over. He never showed up. And since he only paid $1,600, that's all he's going to have proof for.
Since March I've made three payments on the card of a little less then $150 (the minimum) a month which adds another $450 to the amount he owes me. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7940
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 7:25 am: |
|
If I understand this correctly, you agreed to a 6% interest over one year rather than the actual rate the card is carrying. You may have committed to a bad deal.
The question of whether he took advantage of you may be more moral than legal. But, I'm no lawyer. Try the law site others posted. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5302
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 9:15 am: |
|
6% interest on the cash; not the card. He knew he'd be responsible for any and all fiance charges on the card. I also added in the $14 the bank charged me for the check he bounced. My friend says I should charge him for the stamp each month as well.  (that's going a little too far I told her) |
HOMMELL
Citizen
Username: Hommell
Post Number: 218
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 9:20 am: |
|
It's called treble damages. These sites provide good info:
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/essex/civil/small.htm
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/essex/civil/special.htm
Disclaimer: This is not legal advice. |
ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 2160
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 9:28 am: |
|
JTA - did you have any of this in writing or on e-mail? Do you have records of your correspondence and your phone calls? Having this information would be helpful in making your claim.
I know that hindsight is 20/20, but I can hardly think of an instance where it is wise to give someone carte blanche on a credit card, particularly if the person is already in a cash-strapped situation (as your erstwhile friend clearly was).
I echo the recommendations above regarding use of the website that could provide you with legal information. Ethically, what this person did was wrong. Legally, you will need some back-up.
Good luck, and I hope you are more careful in the future.
|
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5304
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 10:16 am: |
|
ess
You are right I shouldn't have loaned him the money; but he swore he'd pay it back within a few days. Never again...
No email. I don't know how to explain it, but I can prove he owes the money. For one, either his wife or him signed for the more then $3,000 charges they made on the credit card. Second he made several payments of $200 each by check. Third, one of his utility payments was made over the phone on a second credit card (they didn't take Amex). He has also admitted to several people he borrowed the money and maxed out the credit card.
Thanks. I'm going to post on the sites suggested. |
srg227
Citizen
Username: Srg227
Post Number: 46
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
|
just playing Devil's Advocate here, but if you don't have a contract or something in writing where he explicitly states that he agrees to pay you back, what's stopping him from claiming that these were gifts from you to him without expectation of having to pay them back? |
Dego Diva
Citizen
Username: Fmingione
Post Number: 754
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 11:28 am: |
|
If he signed for the charges, did he sign your name? If so, you might get him on forgery or fraud.
Bottom line - you need a lawyer. Stop wasting your time with this guy and get yourself one asap. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7945
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 11:31 am: |
|
I think that if she tries to claim fraud after allowing him to use the card (on more than one occassion) and never reported it at the time, JTA could get herself into trouble. Then she'd be committing fraud against the credit card company.
There is probably something in the Card agreement that specifies she's liable for this kind of thing or not allowed to do this kind of thing.
|
ina
Citizen
Username: Ina
Post Number: 372
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 11:49 am: |
|
JTA wanna take this to Judge Judy? THat way, you'll know justice will be served. And you'll get paid. |
blackcat
Citizen
Username: Blackcat
Post Number: 617
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 1:13 pm: |
|
Ususally you have to file a lawsuit in court and then you'll get a leter from one of those shows. I was sueing a cousin for money owed and got a letter from People's Court asking if I was interested in letting them handle it. It was after the Ed Koch days, so I wasn't interested. I don't think my cousin would have appreciated it. The jerk. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1989
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 2:00 pm: |
|
JTA -
Is there anyone who can intervene on your behalf -- a trusted relative, minister? I say that because it would be good to know more about why he isn't paying you (unless he's just trying to be a jerk).
Do you think he could pay (not *would* pay!)? Are he and his wife reasonably employed, no major helath issues, or anything like that? That's no small amount of money, but even if you go to court and win the judgement, you gotta be able to collect!
All the best --
Pete |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7951
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 2:17 pm: |
|
Black - I think that you can now go to Judge Judy's website and register. |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 23266
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 2:25 pm: |
|
Greene, I'm hoping you use Judge Judy if you decide to proceed - and if it's under the $5,000 threshold. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7953
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 2:41 pm: |
|
Oh hell, no. I'm going for the limit. I have the documentation to justify it, too.
Although, it would be funny.
"But if you read page 47 of this print out...."
"I don't give a rat's behind about a print out. Do you think I have time for that? Are you on drugs? Are you drunk?"
|
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 23269
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 3:02 pm: |
|
|
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5306
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 3:28 pm: |
|
Ok I might as well tell everyone the person involved is my brother. |
catmanjac
Citizen
Username: Catmanjac
Post Number: 256
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 3:30 pm: |
|
"neither a lender or borrower be"
I learned this the hard way some years ago, when lending money amounting to five figures to a former best friend. Will never see a dime of it, and eventually wrote it off on my taxes, which only got me a fraction of it back.
NEVER AGAIN!
|
catmanjac
Citizen
Username: Catmanjac
Post Number: 257
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 3:31 pm: |
|
Triple damages apply to violation of the NJ consumer fraud act. Most likely it does not apply. |
Alleygater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 2196
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 3:42 pm: |
|
JTA, just walk away from it. Let your brother know that you are pissed off. That you expect him to pay it back, and until he does, you will be annoyed as sh*t. Then walk away from it. Never lend him money again. What is more important, the money or your family member. It's a VERY expensive lesson to learn. Sorry. Think long and hard before being so kind to ANYONE in the future. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7955
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 4:18 pm: |
|
Agreed. Even if you win in court, you won't be happy. Everyone loses in these family situations. My grandmother and her sister, both in their upper 80s, haven't spoken in 30 years over money. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1991
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 4:42 pm: |
|
He's abusing you. I very much disagree with the above (letting it go). Particularly in a family -- this is unacceptable, and will only continue or get worse.
Whatever your next step -- it won't be easy.
Take care -
Peter
|
ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 2165
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 4:48 pm: |
|
Unfortunately, I think Pete is right; your brother is abusing you and your good nature. Letting it go completely is not going to address the issue. I liked Alleygater's advice to let him know you are PO'd about his behavior and do expect to be repaid. Perhaps you could work out a schedule with him? Then move on. As GT noted, family situations over money tend to have unhappy endings.
My only real piece of advice is the obvious one: don't lend him any more money or let him near your credit cards. Believe me on this, you do not want your credit tainted. |
CFA
Citizen
Username: Cfa
Post Number: 1650
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 5:35 am: |
|
I disagree as well. I had to sue my sister in court for abusing my kindness to her. After 2 years she finally realized she was wrong and called me to apologize. We are now as close or closer than we were before. Don't be a sap like I am. Stand up for what is yours. |
kmk
Supporter
Username: Kmk
Post Number: 1273
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 9:07 am: |
|
I won a small claims court case in NYC and the court actually approved a withdrawal of money from the other guy's checking account (using the account number on his one and only payment to me) to pay me directly. (Is it called "garnishing" or something?)
Man - I was only 24 and I felt like the underdog, but it felt great to be heard and to be vindicated. |
Alleygater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 2213
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 1:50 pm: |
|
Pete, Ess and CFA: I understand where your coming from. I don't usually let people walk all over me. On the flip side, I don't like loaning people money. I have my own history with it and I have always found that the best policy for me is to think of EVERY loan as a gift. If I am unwilling to part with that much money, I won't loan it...because I know that some people flake. The question for me ALWAYS is: "Is this amount of money is enough to break up my relationship if it isn't paid back?" If the answer is yes, THEN WHY WOULD YOU LOAN IT? You know (deep in your heart if you just think for a moment) that there is a very real possibility that you won't get your money back. So I only loan an amount I would be willing to part with. IF I get the money back, then great. If I don't I will request it, I'll bring it up to the person. I might even be forceful...but as my advice above, I will eventually give up and walk away from the situation. LIVE AND LEARN. Certainly remember this failed loan and never loan to that person ever again.
I already stated I am odd about loans. I usually will take loaning money one step further. I usually tell the person AS I AM GIVING THEM THE CASH, that I want them to remember to pay me back. I don't want to have to remember it. It's on them. And this is a one time thing. If they don't pay it back and be responsible, then I won't loan to them ever again. All I can say is that this method has worked for me. I haven't had any crazy fights about loans with people since using this method. And I never feel taken advantage of. I actually feel like I am being responsible. |
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page