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Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 177
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 11:01 am: | 
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Alright, I don’t even know where to start with this and don’t know if it belongs here or in soap box but I need to vent and need any advice anyone wants to give.
History: No one in my family has ever gotten a divorce. My uncle decided a week ago to walk out on my aunt after 23 years of marriage. My aunt is an alcoholic/chronic pain/shop-aholic who has put them in extreme debt and has been suffering from these diseases for YEARS. For the last 10 or so years my uncle has become mostly her babysitter to be here designated driver and monitor her behavior during family/social functions (most recently at Christmas when she chose to take off her shirt in front of us all while playing Scategories-she got go-go dancer!!!!). The entire family has thought for years he would reach his breaking point and was a saint for “dealing with her”.
Add the following to the pot: She is 5’ tall and as a result of her alcoholism weighs about 85 pounds and they had a lot of difficulty having children. She did get pregnant once but unfortunately lost the baby. My uncle’s father and brother dropped dead from brain aneurisms and his mother has the beginning stages of Alzheimer’s. Uncle also recently lost his job (employee for an airline, high up position in the union). Uncle had an affair during negotiations with fellow union negotiator. Confessed to my aunt about the affair and they have been trying to work through everything in counseling for the last 6 months. He finally called it quits last Thursday and moved out.
My issue in this whole scenario-while I do not condone in any way the way my uncle chose to end the marriage (she came home from work to find all of his things gone) or to have an affair, to me he is still my uncle. I feel he may be suffering from severe depression and since he really has no blood relatives left of his own, should not be thrown to the wolves simply because my aunt if my blood relative and he is not. This man has been a caring and incredible uncle for my entire life. To me he is my family whether or not I am “technically” related to him or not and needs support as much as my aunt.
Everyone keeps telling me I “HAVE” to call my aunt and listen to her in her time of need-but every time I talk to her she goes on for 2.5 hours rehashing all of the “horrible, disgusting, delusional, etc.” things he has said and done over the last six months. It makes me very uncomfortable. I seem to be the only one in my family to have any worries about my uncle-everyone else is calling him names and saying they never want to see him again because of the way he has “treated my aunt.” My entire family seems to think this means we must all bad mouth my uncle and support my aunt unconditionally while leaving my uncle with no one from our family speaking to him.
To me-this is a private matter that I have no right to judge anyone since I was not living in each of their shoes. There are two sides to every story in my mind. For years my entire family has looked at my uncle as a saint for “putting up” with my aunt. Now all of a sudden he is an a** hole and the last 25 years have been forgotten in a blink of an eye.
Am I being unreasonable? I would rather just stay out of it-support my aunt AND my uncle through words of comfort (not anger), cards, invitations to get out, shoulder to cry on, etc.
I just find it hard to write off a man who has been in my life for 25 of my 27 years for making some poor decisions (the affair and the walking out part) that do not directly affect me in any way. I just really don’t know how to deal with this whole situation-because now every conversation with anyone in my family has turned into a “how horrible is uncle” conversation…….
Whew-thanks for letting me get that out-I’m sorry it was so long and may have been TMI or too long….thanks…..
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wnb
Citizen
Username: Wnb
Post Number: 400
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 11:12 am: |
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I am going to absolutely refrain from voicing any judgement of these individuals and their behaviors as described in this post, though believe me I have them. Doing so wouldn't actually help you with your question, though, so...
Tell "everyone" to worry about their own approach to this situation, rather than your approach.
Be supportive of both individuals. Try to maintain open communications with both.
If one of the two parties can't deal with you being supportive of both, and gives you an ultimatum, it is them, not you, who are making that decision. You are there for them. They may choose to not speak with you. That is their choice. Let them know that when and if they change their mind, you're there for them.
If one or more of the "everyone" has a problem with it, again they should handle it their way and you handle it your way.
I feel it would be morally wrong to freeze your uncle out and "take sides" when obviously the issues are complicated and there is no clear right and wrong side here.
That's my advice, worth the paper it's printed on...
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C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 2649
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 11:12 am: |
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I'm glad you're not writing your uncle off the way the rest of the family seems eager to do. You remind me of a poster I have on the wall in my office:
"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak. Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."
You are doing both and I commend you. |
Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 178
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 11:25 am: |
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wnb-that is what I feel my family is doing-voicing judgement on the behaviors and individuals. Everything I wrote in my post are the "facts" as they have been for about the last ten years. But even these "facts" are open to interpretation because of the emotional attachment to the situations. It's a messy situation and I understand that my aunt is hurting, but I also understand that my uncle is as well-it's a terrible situation and no one wants it to end in a divorce, but sometimes that may be the best case in a volatile situation. I just think everyone needs to be supportive and not judgmental (in private they are free to do as they want of course) but I just feel it is so counterproductive to promote this anger. Thank you for your advice-that is the way I have been playing it for the last week and some have already voiced they disagree/are angry with my decision to continue to stay in contact with my uncle-and you are right-that is their decision to get angry at me, not mine-but it still gets dirty and hurtful....
CBataille-thank you for your kind words. that is a beautiful quote. |
Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 2326
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 11:32 am: |
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Lucy - you are being unreasonably placed in a difficult position by your family. As hard as it may be to stand your ground, I admire you for being able to "see the forest for the trees" --things are never as black and white as your family would like to believe. Your uncle sounds like a good man, and you are doing what your heart tells you is right by wanting to support him. I have no doubt the decision he made was not an easy one. Perhaps your family will see by your example that it is possible to support both people involved.
Your aunt's supporters would do her more justice by encouraging her to get the help she needs, rather than allowing her to play the victim.
I wish you and your family strength. Divorce is never easy and it is made more difficult by the extenuating circumstances of their personal situation
good luck!! |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 879
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 11:34 am: |
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Dear Lucy,
Your Uncle may not be your family by blood, but he has become so through affection.
No-one is perfect, and and you say, this really is a private matter so no-one should ask you to take sides.
It's a hard time right now for them both, and I hope that the rest of your family can maybe see their way to being the way you are and givng them both the support they need.
SOP
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greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7981
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 11:46 am: |
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Lucy - apart from the divorce thing, it sounds like your family has been enablers of your aunt's disease for years. How he chose to extricate himself is not something to judge. But, it seems as if he has decided to stop being her enabler.
Only your aunt can come to terms with and seek help for her addiction. Perhaps without her codependent, she may look at herself. But as long as she has her enablers justifying her behavior, it is unlikely.
I see refusing to listen to her rant and rave as refusing to enable her. As for your uncle, did he ever think about going to al-anon? |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1995
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
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Lucy --
Be as supportive of your Aunt as you can be, and let your Uncle know how youe feel about him.
Consider attending Al-anon -- there is a *great* meeting Sunday, 10am at Overlook Hospital (and others, too) btw-- Alanon is for you-- family/friend of an alcoholic.
http://www.nj-al-anon.org/Meetings.htm
Pete |
Crazy_quilter
Citizen
Username: Crazy_quilter
Post Number: 317
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 11:55 am: |
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your aunt may be bi-polar or have other serious emotional illness. By leaving, your uncle may be helping her to realize she needs to get help. He may actually be doing the best for her by stopping taking care of her. Also, they may get back together and then where will your family be if you have been bad mouthing him? |
las
Citizen
Username: Las
Post Number: 1833
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 11:58 am: |
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Lucy, in the 14 months since my husband left me not a person in his family has had the decency to contact me and that has left a horrible taste in my mouth.
I think reaching out to your Uncle says an awful lot about the kind of person you are. Brava for you!
If anyone has a problem with this, tell them to mind their own business.
-Lynn |
Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 179
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
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Greenetree-I have been saying that for years about enabling-well for the years when I grew old enough to realize what the family dynamic truly was. And it always falls on deaf ears. I know my uncle went to al-anon for awhile, but that was years ago, before it even got this bad and do not honestly know if he was still going.
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Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 180
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 12:08 pm: |
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Lynn-I have been reading your blog and I was hoping you would chime in. I'm sorry for your experience and hope my uncle will have a different experience, even if it is just lil ol' me...
Thanks everyone-I really just needed to vent (usually I vent to the family but that's a bit hard right now-my lil sis is the only one being reasonable right now) and having never been through something like this, I didn't know what "should" be done and if I really was being unreasonable to still want to support my uncle as well as my aunt (I truly didn't think so, but you get enough people saying it you start to doubt!!) I feel in my gut that it is what I should do, but needed to hear some unbiased people's opinions. Thanks all!
I will definitely look into the al-anon-thanks for the links, etc. |
las
Citizen
Username: Las
Post Number: 1834
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 12:16 pm: |
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It's more than just lil ol' you, Lucy. Your connection to him will be immeasurable - probably has been already and that's why you're so compelled to reach out to him.
One piece of advice I would offer you: Remind him that no matter what decision he makes, you support him. Whether he stays away or goes back to her, it's always reassuring to have someone on your side who is not reminding you of previous errors or bad choices. You're his neice for the long-run, and I would bet he'd like to hear you remind him.
In Yiddush there is a word, kvell, which is when you are so proud/impressed there are no words. You are doing your own thing and you know it might not be easy. I'm kvelling. |
ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 2188
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 12:24 pm: |
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Lucy, your refusal to reject your uncle is admirable.
A long time ago, there was a situation in my extended family which resulted in all of "them" completely shutting out the relative who was not related by blood, despite the fact that he had been a part of their family since he was a teenager. The entire family banded together on this, even though most of them didn't even know why.
Your support and love for your uncle is going to be so valuable to him during this incredibly painful time. One doesn't have to be related by blood to love someone as an uncle or a niece.
Refusing to enable your aunt's destructive behavior is also a form of love. You are doing the right thing. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1996
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 12:25 pm: |
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When I was divorced, although I felt like my ex-W's family was on "her side" -- one of the most meaningful things happened when my (almost ex) mother in law reached out to me. She said she loved me and that I would always be a part of their family.
Your uncle needs to hear what's in your heart -- it will impact him deeply.
Pete |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 881
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 12:30 pm: |
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Well said Pete,
At times like this some people take sides, others disappear into the woodwork, and then there are a fine group like youself.
Keep it up Lucy! |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 1265
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 1:30 pm: |
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My son is divorced. My daughter in law is the mother of my grandchild, and she is someone whom I love quite apart from her relationship to my son. So I continue to see her. Nobody, including "everybody" in your family, has the right to tell you whom you are allowed to love. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7985
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 5:14 pm: |
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We still refer to my B-I-L's ex-wife as our S-I-L. Like Lizzie said, she's the parent of our nieces and nephew and just because it didn't work out between her and TS's brother doesn't change how we feel about her. We still visit her and she stays with us when she is in town. |
lisat
Citizen
Username: Lisat
Post Number: 187
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 7:39 pm: |
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I agree with everyone who says that you should stay in touch with your uncle and aunt. But I would go further. From your description of your family, I think it'd be a good idea to make a promise to yourself that you will not gossip/talk about family members to other family members. Your family will be angry for a while but you can't change anyone's behavior except your own. But changing your own behavior, i.e., not engaging in or listening to negative or judgemental conversation about other family members will have an affect on everyone else. I tried it and close family members were angry for a good long time. But they did start talking to me about other subjects. Also, when family members were looking for me to enable them, instead of being their pretend therapist and listening for hours, I would listen for five minutes or so and then say, "I believe in you. I know you can find the right answer." Or something like that. I think it helped them take more responsibility for themselves. Divorce is hard and sad but so is living in terrible emotional circumstances. Try this experiment, someone asks if you've called your aunt, etc. and you just say, "I've decided not to talk about this with anyone." My family members flipped out when I did it but I continued to reach out to them and they adjusted. Just my opinion. |
Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 183
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 7:56 pm: |
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Lisat-thank you-that is exactly what I have said/done so far and so far i've gotten anger and "you WHAT!!!!?????" when I told them I had spoken to my uncle as well as my aunt. I have to stick to my gut and keep my conscience clear in this whole situation and hopefully, like with your family, they will come around.
thanks everyone...i knew i could lay it all out here and get a variety of opinions back-unfortunately i know a lot of people have been through divorce-if not their own, their family's, and it helps to hear different perspectives. I really appreciate it! |
Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 184
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 7:59 pm: |
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i think it is so easy for my family to jump to my aunt's "side" because of the fact that there are no kids...my grandparents/mom/other aunts/uncles don't have grandkids/nieces/nephews to deal with (and by deal i don't mean in any way a negative). I think if they had had kids it might be different...but it's a shame to me that because there are no kids involved people seem so quick to judge and write off an individual. I have never been so black in white with anyone in my life and the fact that so many people around me are acting like they live in a bubble is very scary/frustrating/lonely for me. |
las
Citizen
Username: Las
Post Number: 1838
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 10:37 am: |
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Lucy, I've been thinking about you. Any update? |
Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 190
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 1:19 pm: |
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Thanks Las- since they only had a joint cell phone I decided the best way to contact each of them individually on their separate email addresses just telling each of them I loved them very much and hoped they were doing ok. I received the following email from my uncle immediately after that:
Thanks so much Nicole, to be honest I never thought I would ever hear from anyone ever again. This is one of the things that made my decision so painful and difficult for me, I love you guys so much and the thought of never hearing from any of the kids just killed me. I am sorry if I hurt you or anyone.
I responded:
Please know that you do not ever have to worry about me not speaking to you. You are my uncle as much as **** is my aunt and I love you very much. You mean so much to me and whatever your decision was/is I respect and will never judge you. I understand that you did what you had to do for your own well being. I just really wanted to let you know that and to let you know that I was thinking of you and that I hope you are ok. Please do not hesitate to ever call/email/write/anything. I am here if you need anything.
He responded:
I really don’t know what to say, I never expected a nonjudgmental opinion from this. It’s overwhelming for me, thank you for your love and understanding. It means the world to me.
So...I am feeling very good about my decision to reach out to my uncle and even though it has already brought anger from some in my family and I have had to rethink/remodel a visit in July (supposed to be staying with my older sister-one of the major forces in anti-uncle) I know in my gut that this is not only the right thing to do but that I really had no choice.
Thank you for all of your advice-it really means a lot to me...I will update when I can... |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 7585
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 1:41 pm: |
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Lucy:
Your uncle (blood relative or not) has become an important person in your life. Why should you break your relaionship with him now just because he and your aunt (blood relative) are separating? Reaching out to your aunt and uncle by e-mail is a nice safe step but it would be much better if you could speak with each of them face to face or by telephone to let them know how you feel and let them know that you are there for each of them individually or as a unit.
I would agree with the above posters who concluded from your take on your aunt's situation in the beginning of this thread that your aunt needs help. She has to admit to her problems but once she does this she is going to need some support in seeking the treatment and life style changes she needs. Participating in an organization like al-anon will help you develop the skills you need to help all three of you through the process but ideally they each need to seek help as well. I say all three of you because your uncle's life has been strongly influenced by your aunt's problems for a very long time and he needs to determine the best way of coping with his own feelings in this matter.
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las
Citizen
Username: Las
Post Number: 1839
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 3:30 pm: |
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Lucy, you are an amazing person.
It's really hard to separate relationships in a family, but it can be done. You just need one player on your side who understands your decision to stand by your Uncle does not mean you won't support your Aunt as well and that it's possible to be loyal to more than one person. You took a brave stand, it may take time, but you'll get support.
Thank you for the update. Please keep us posted. |
Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 191
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 2:22 pm: |
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I agree that the email is not the best way to go about the conversations that need to happen-but I have limited resources right now. I had one conversation with my aunt via phone and it did not go well as it was a loooooooooooooong conversation consisting of only uncle bashing. she was not happy when i told her i didn't want to listen to that anymore but instead wanted to talk about what she needed to get through this. that was why i sent an email to her to let her know i love her and if she needs anything to call. she has yet to respond/call since i think she is still angry i am not "taking sides" (which was how the phone call ended). as for emailing my uncle-there is no other way i knew how to get in touch with him since i have no idea where he is staying and have no phone number to get in touch with him. i have told him i would like to see him for lunch or coffee or something to talk to him in person when we are there in july. i know the email seems almost like a non-confrontational way to attack this situation but i really had no other option...i am hoping my aunt will come around (although i don't anticipate that happening in the near future) and my uncle seems receptive to open conversation and respectful of my "no bashing/side taking" position.
Thanks Las! You are too kind and I don't see anything "amazing" about what I have chosen to do-but thank you for your words of encouragement. It will take time-but I am only 27 and have all the time in the world  i hope.... |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 7591
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 4:19 pm: |
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Lucy:
Under the circumstances you describe, I agree the e-mail route is a good initial step. It lets them both know you care and keeps lines of communication open. Here's hoping things improve for all three of you.
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