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Bklyngirl
Citizen
Username: Bklyngirl
Post Number: 116
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 1:30 pm: | 
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So, my husband turns 40 in a couple of months, and I'm planning on inviting his best friend, his best friend's wife, my brother-in-law and his wife out to dinner at a restaurant. Can I ask my husband's best friend and brother to split the cost of dinner with me? Or, should I pay for dinner?
I have no problem paying for dinner, except that it'll be like my husband paying for his own dinner celebration. On the other hand, if I were to have something at the house, it'll also be like my husband paying for his own dinner celebration, because I wouldn't ask the guests to chip in then, nor would I ever.
So, although it seems like I've answered my own question, I can't help but think that the restaurant celebration is different somehow than inviting everyone to the house for dinner, and that it's not a bad idea to ask my brother-in-law and my husband's friend to contribute.
I can't explain why the restaurant celebration is different in my mind, but it's a nagging feeling that won't go away.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
bklyngirl
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Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 194
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 1:33 pm: |
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IMHO-your idea, your husband, your $ should pay for your guests
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BGS
Supporter
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 1072
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 1:35 pm: |
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I agree with Lucy- if you are inviting- you pay. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14655
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 1:36 pm: |
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I agree with Lucy, and Miss Manners has said the same in a column of hers a while back.
This is one reason why it's good for you to have your own money, even if it's just to buy him gifts. I siphon small amounts of money from our joint into my personal account, and my wife does the same. My wife never sees the bills for gifts I buy her.
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Wendy
Supporter
Username: Wendy
Post Number: 2612
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 1:37 pm: |
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Pay for the dinner. I don't think there's any way to do it differently unless you tell people you're taking your husband out for dinner on X date and if they'd like to join you that would be great. But that's not what you really want if I read your post correctly. You said that if you pay it will be like your husband paying. How is that different from when you get him a gift then or as you pointed out if you buy groceries on your family budget and cook a special dinner for him and/or others. I assume it's because you're combining your finances (regardless of whether you work outside the home or not).
If your husband would be uncomfortable with a costly gift (regardless whether it's something concrete for him or the money for a dinner party) then perhaps you shouldn't do it.
Anyway, those are my thoughts for your food.
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Bklyngirl
Citizen
Username: Bklyngirl
Post Number: 117
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 1:49 pm: |
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That's always been my modo - you invite, you pay. I don't know why the suddent distinction in my mind, but I'll ignore it.
Thanks for the feedback.
bklyngirl |
Wendy
Supporter
Username: Wendy
Post Number: 2613
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 2:02 pm: |
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However, should any of the invited guests offer to help pay as a gift to the birthday boy, there's no reason to decline the offer, imo. Just don't be too unsubtle.  |
Bklyngirl
Citizen
Username: Bklyngirl
Post Number: 118
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 2:20 pm: |
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No, I won't.
bklyngirl |
Rick B
Citizen
Username: Ruck1977
Post Number: 1125
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 4:54 pm: |
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I am glad all of you agree with what I always thought was simple logic.
For years we would go to these birthday dinner celebrations for my wife's friends. We would end up about 10-12 at a restaurant, then when the bill came we always split the bill and divided the birthday person's cost evenly and added that to each person's bill.
So, out comes the evite, "come celebrate my birthday with dinner at suchandsuch in the city". This basically meant that we would go out for a nice ($$$) dinner with some people we might or might not like, pay a lot of money, and pay a litte more for the birthday friend. I grew to hate this tradition year after year and now we dont' go because we just can't afford it.
I would say, the only way you can expect them to pay is to bring them in on the planning and design of the night. Even then it could be tricky or uncomfortable, but if you plan it together you might be able to pull it off. |
eliz
Supporter
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 1514
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 5:04 pm: |
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I think if a group of friends is planning the dinner then the scenario Rick B describes is the norm. If it's your husband and you are planning and inviting you should definitely pick up the tab as you would if they came to your home for dinner. I don't agree with Wendy - some people may offer to chip in to be polite - I think they should be thanked and declined. |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 207
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 5:12 pm: |
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For what it's worth, we can't afford to do a lot of out-of-home nice dining or entertaining for special occasions however we make that clear in the invitation: wording such as come join in the celebration for X's (occasion). Meet us at YYY on DDMM at (time). Please don't bring a bring a gift because your presence is gift enough - meal etc at your cost. Most of our invitations are verbal and most of our friends know we are fairly broke - even when we can afford to pay our way they often won't let us  We also have many friends with special dining needs so a set menu potentially becomes quite complicated.
As Rick B suggests, bringing them in for the planing is a good idea: plans are afoot for my birthday (which I think I am not meant to know about - the plans, not the birthday!) and as several elderly people are travelling long distances to be here it seems to have gone from a fancy dinner in town - quite a driving distance especially in the middle of our winter - to a 'posh' lunch to accommodate their needs. That's OK - having family on my birthday is treat enough! Sorry for the drift - was just trying to say, ask and explain - if they're good friends they'll tell you what they think and it won't cost the friendship! |
Jersey_Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 1047
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 8:55 pm: |
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With all due respect to the unanimous opinions of MOL and Miss Manners, you are not nuts for thinking of doing it that way.
Clearly all of Rick B's friends have been doing that. I think it's the norm among broke folks, who could never throw a decent group event without making stone soup. (http://stonesoup.esd.ornl.gov/stonesoup.html)
If everone has money, it's just a matter of etiquette.
Happy Birthday, husband,
J.B. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14665
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 10:48 pm: |
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There's a way to be a gracious host in humble settings. To say you're broke so you can extort money from your friends so that you can have something you can't afford isn't all that friendly. A cookout or some cake and coffee would be a great celebration if the company were right. I don't believe living within your means is called making stone soup.
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Hamandeggs
Citizen
Username: Hamandeggs
Post Number: 309
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 5:37 am: |
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Yes, I agree with Tom. Especially since the guests are likely to bring a gift, any offers to pay for dinner should be declined. Do what you can comfortably; if it's coffee and cake at home that's just fine. If a restaurant meal, that's fine too. But as host/hostess, you're in charge of providing and paying.
I think to suggest an alternative and see what the guests think (pay or not to pay) is very risky. For one thing, if your friends don't have a lot of $ to spare, this kind of dinner (how much will it be? who knows?) is stressful, not fun. You may find people declining, or -- worse -- sittign thru dinner wondering what it will cost.
Host them, toast them, feed them! |
fiche
Citizen
Username: Fiche
Post Number: 161
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:33 am: |
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Tom and Hamandeggs. Precisely! Miss Manners says to figure out who you would like to invite and then figure out how much you can afford to spend to entertain them, not the opposite way around. So if you want to have ten people celebrate the 40th birthday, you do so. If it's cake and coffee (and champagne - but that's just me) do so. The main point is to celebrate your husband's life to this point and the good friends and family you have. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 8018
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:36 am: |
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Ham & Eggs has it right on. It's not about what you spend or making it "fancy"; it's about issuing an invitation with no strings. Being hospitable and gracious within your means.
If you invite people to a party at your home, do you ask them to chip in for the food/booze? People will bring a bottle of wine, flowers or candy but not because you asked them to. Same with a restaurant.
If you decide to host a pot luck, that's a different story. Then all participants are involved/free to participate in planning the menu & who will bring what.
We used to have a dinner party for a friend's B-day every year & pulled out all the stops. We never expected them to invite us to anything fancy because they couldn't afford it. But I was highly insulted when her partner invited me to a surprise party for the friend's B-day one year and informed me what our share would be.
Another couple, who we used to invite over all the time and who has not extended an invitation to their home even for a burger on the grill in years, asked us if we would like to go to the South of France for a big B-day this year. They would rent a chateau, provide a cook, rental cars, etc. We would need to arrange our own transportation. Sounded fair and like fun. There would be 5 couples.
We then recieved the estimate of what our share of the accomodations, etc. would be. The trip would have run about $7k-$10k for a week. I called and suggested that we meet in Paris instead, so that each couple could come/go do their own thing & we could plan to have some meals together. And each couple could choose a hotel that they could afford.
No, that would not do. They wanted to have some romantic time alone in Paris.
Basically, we were asked to subsidize someone else's very expensive vacation, planned down to the minute, stuck out in the countryside with a group, in the name of someone's "birthday celebration".
Not that I think this is what BKgirl is suggesting; it just always comes to mind when people bring this up.
Rick B's scenario is only the norm for 20-somethings who don't have any money. Then it tends to be meet at a bar and pay your own tab or come over to the house with a bottle of something and a bag of chips.
You are either the host or you are not.
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Bklyngirl
Citizen
Username: Bklyngirl
Post Number: 119
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 10:41 am: |
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The right thing for me to do is pay for dinner (and champagne, of course). Especially, since I'm the sole organizer and planner. I normally don't accept contribution offers and I don't think I will this time.
I think the reason why a small part of me thought of asking my brother-in-law and husband's friend to chip in was because my husband will know from the outset how much his dinner celebration costs. That's what caused me to draw a distinction between hosting the party at the house and hosting it at a restaurant. I'll simply ask the waiter not to bring the bill to the table and wait to present it to me when the birthday boy is distracted.
bklyngirl |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14687
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 10:44 am: |
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It might be an opportunity for you to show that he is worth all that fuss (and expense).
You could claim to go to the ladies' room and pay the check then.
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Handygirl
Citizen
Username: Handygirl
Post Number: 721
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 10:50 am: |
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Yes, we used to do what Rick B's wife's friends do. However we did it when we all lived in the city, had little money and (this is key) were single. We stopped doing these group-subsidized dinners when everyone got married, or entered into serious, committed relationships. |
Rick B
Citizen
Username: Ruck1977
Post Number: 1126
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 12:09 pm: |
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Everyone has had an interesting take on what I had written. I found the method very expensive and rude to be honest. I'd love to celebrate your birthday with you, friend. Then it turns out that 10-12 of us are at a table at a nice restaurant, the bill comes, and it is not cheap. Then the math person says, 150 per couple, and no one is grimacing except me because I had chicken parm and a few beers...then every year when that person's bday comes up, its like, how the heck can i get out of this thing!!
so, yes, we get invited out to celebrate your birthday, but I just dropped 150 bucks because of it. we had a superbowl party a couple years back and had no problem dropping 5-600 bucks on food/drink/stuff because we planned it. we really enjoyed it too, and knowing that no one had to do anything but eat and watch the game was great. No dreaded settling at the end of the night.
Even if only one person that you invite is stressing about the money (and there is always atleast one), they certainly are not going to be "celebrating" with you and having fun. you plan it, you pay...IMHO.
(i do have to say, with only one year left of 20-somethingness, these things are much less frequent now...) |
Mummite
Citizen
Username: Mummite
Post Number: 246
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 1:10 pm: |
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So......on a similar subject....I'm invited to a baby shower at a restaurant. I assume I am paying for myself and splitting the cost of the pregnant girl. Is etiquette for baby showers different to birthdays? |
Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 203
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 1:18 pm: |
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I would never assume that I would be paying for myself and anyone else. the organizer of the baby/wedding/birthday/anything is responsible for paying...unless you were otherwise informed via conversation/note on invitation prior to your RSVP of YES. it amazes me that people would assume that. Do you ask your guests to give xxx amount of dollars at the door prior to admission to your wedding???? there shouldn't be a cover charge to be included in an event that comes along with a friendship. in the end it works out evenly-they throw one party, you throw another. i just don't get asking anyone to pay for YOUR party...that's my two cents |
Jersey_Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 1057
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 1:29 pm: |
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I specifically was talking about being broke, not 20-something. There are lots of people of all ages who have modest or irregular incomes. The everybody-chips-in dinner is a way to have a group event that exceeds what the host could afford alone.
I don't think being broke should equate to being rude. Like I said, "IF everyone has money, it's an etiquette thing."
I didn't mean for stone soup to be read as a derogatory. It's supposed to be an example of what a group can do by cooperating.
J.B. |
Bklyngirl
Citizen
Username: Bklyngirl
Post Number: 123
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 1:34 pm: |
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I wouldn't assume that you will be contributing to the baby shower. My best friend organized my baby shower at a restaurant, too, and she paid for the whole thing. I don't think anyone assumed otherwise.
bklyngirl |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 8021
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 3:06 pm: |
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Mum - no, you shouldn't expect to buy a ticket to an event to which you were invited.
JB - I don't think that anyone should entertain outside their means. But if it is truly a celebration of someone, then the company, some burgers on the grill/pizza and beer & wine at home are just as good.
Now, if a good friend were to call other friends and say "JB's birthday is coming up. What do you think about a group of us getting together and taking him out for dinner?" that's something else. But no one should be put in the position of spending money they don't have or having to decline. Why embarass anyone?
As Rick points out, those "group split the check" things are hardly cheap. If you order wings and soda because you are broke, you still end up paying $150. Why does that always seem to be the magic number, anyway? And there is always someone invited who doesn't think that it's anyone else's business that they are already stressing over the cost of two graduation gifts, the cousin's wedding in San Francisco and a leaking roof. |
Jersey_Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 1059
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 3:38 pm: |
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Bklyngirl writes:
"So, my husband turns 40 in a couple of months, and I'm planning on inviting his best friend, his best friend's wife, my brother-in-law and his wife out to dinner at a restaurant. Can I ask my husband's best friend and brother to split the cost of dinner with me? Or, should I pay for dinner?
Greenetree writes:
"Now, if a good friend were to call other friends and say "JB's birthday is coming up. What do you think about a group of us getting together and taking him out for dinner?" that's something else."
That's not actually "something else." It's exactly what Bklygirl wanted to do. She's planning something that's a couple of months away.
I'm saying, as you just did, it would be okay to do this.
J.B. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 8023
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 3:55 pm: |
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The key is that it is not the person or their spouse.
According to Miss Manners, no close relative should ever host a gift-bearing occassion. This of course, is a bit outmoded and impractical in these times when Ladies Who Lunch and Have Time to Plan Social Events are an endangered species. Ergo, it is often the sister who is left to plan the shower.
The idea is that a person would be put on the spot just as much with a spouse/brother/sister. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 8024
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 3:57 pm: |
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Of course, one could also argue that the key to any happy marriage is that the partners are good friends as well as spouses.
I do hope that BKgirl and her husband are good friends. However, in this case, Spouse trumps Good Friend and the rule still stands. |
Hamandeggs
Citizen
Username: Hamandeggs
Post Number: 310
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 4:04 pm: |
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I honestly don't think that idea can come from the spouse. The "let's get together and take Joe out" that works in singledom fairly well can easily turn into a situation where the spouse/partner might or might not get treated to the meal as well, and where are you then? It also works sometimes in work situations where there aren't couples involved and people are likely to reciprocate those invites (which are usually for lunch, anyway, but that's another matter).
I also don't think that you can count on who's in the money and who's not, in terms of having guests. Things change and personal circumstances are private. If you can afford to take everyone to Lorena's, that's dandy. But home is fine, too.
And, since this is a birthday, there may be gifts. You cannot -- in my world, anyway -- ask for $ and a gift. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14698
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 7:36 pm: |
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greenetree, I think the option to decline always exists.
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Jersey_Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 1062
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 11:19 pm: |
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If my wife called up my best friend and my sister to set up a dinner, I know how the conversation would go.
My best friend would say, "whatever, I'll be there and chip in as needed."
My sister would say, "It'll cost me what I can afford just to show up."
My wife (me) and my best friend would split everything and my sister would make something as a gift. (She's a chef.)
My mother would hear about it and pay for something totally ridiculous, like a bag piper.
What would Miss Manners say?
This is the Birthday Boy's best friend and brother. Miss Manner's shouldn't even be involved.
J.B.
(Insert sounds of bag pipes playing "Scotland the Brave.") |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 8030
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 8:54 am: |
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Tom - of course the option to decline exists. But it can put people in an awkward situation. I could be invited by a mutual friend of the celebrant's. If I don't have the money, I am put in the position of either telling the organizer that I am not in a position to spend the money right now or declining with an excuse (other plans?) or no excuse. If the celebrant is a good friend, I have now hurt their feelings by not thinking that they mean enough to me to show up for their party.
Many people don't know how to get out of these invitations gracefully because there is no graceful way out when put in an awkward position.
JB - Miss Manners would argue that there are always rules for etiquette, even (and usually especially) among family members. Sharing DNA does not give us license to be rude or inappropriate. For example, Miss Manners would probably be quite concerned that the bag piper wore the appropriate kilt. If it is an evening affair, he should not be wearing his day kilt. It would be your mother's job to ensure that he is properly dressed for the occassion.
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Hamandeggs
Citizen
Username: Hamandeggs
Post Number: 311
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 9:45 am: |
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I agree with Greenetree that it can be tough to decline gracefully, especially when someone suggests -- sometimes months early -- that it would be fun to get together for Occasion X. You agree, vaguely, that it would and that sort of turns into a tacit agreement to come. But what can you do? It would be fun to get together, but are you agreeing to a cookout or a five-star meal? Even asking the idea person what he or she has in mind doesn't always predict the reality. I think we've all experienced social events that get out of control quickly.
I know it's always possible to decline, but -- darn it all! -- it's really tough sometimes! I think the best thing a host can do is host as completely as possible, and make expectations (gift/no gift, potluck, dress code, etc) as clear as possible.
I think this is especially true among family members. You can always make new friends... |
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