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Message |
    
Ligeti
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 611
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 4, 2006 - 5:45 pm: | 
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New York Times, 3/4/06
"For a while, the wireless Internet connection Christine and Randy Brodeur installed last year seemed perfect. They were able to sit in their sunny Los Angeles backyard working on their laptop computers.
But they soon began noticing that their high-speed Internet access had become as slow as rush-hour traffic on the 405 freeway.
"I didn't know whether to blame it on the Santa Ana winds or what," recalled Mrs. Brodeur, the chief executive of Socket Media, a marketing and public relations agency.
The "what" turned out to be neighbors who had tapped into their system. The additional online traffic nearly choked out the Brodeurs, who pay a $40 monthly fee for their Internet service, slowing down their access until it was practically unusable.
Piggybacking, the usually unauthorized tapping into someone else's wireless Internet connection, is no longer the exclusive domain of pilfering computer geeks or shady hackers cruising for unguarded networks. Ordinarily upstanding people are tapping in. As they do, new sets of Internet behaviors are creeping into America's popular culture."
Another reason you won't find Ligeti jumping on the wireless bandwagon anytime soon. People, I'm afraid this is only the tip of the iceberg.
Reject the wireless lifestyle and criminals in 2006.
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argon_smythe
Citizen
Username: Argon_smythe
Post Number: 779
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 4, 2006 - 10:01 pm: |
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Ligeti,
I agree with you in a lot of ways on your views of technology, but this article is simply laughable. The wires pose far more vulnerability than the wireless, and what happened to these yutzes is easily avoided by logging on to your router and clicking a couple of buttons.
The problem here isn't technology, it's ignorance. |
TomD
Citizen
Username: Tomd
Post Number: 366
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 10:25 am: |
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I have to say I found this whole article silly. If these people were paying $40/month they must have had a very high speed connection, most likely cable at 3 or possibly 6mbps. Unless several (actually, many) of their neighbors were all simulteanously streaming highquality video and download movies and such nonstop all day and all night, it is highly unlikely that heir connection would be slowed noticeably. Odds are, all these people were doing was using a web browser. It's silly. They probably did experience a slow down, but it probably had nothing to do with their neighbors using their connection (unless they have a whole bunch of neighbors). In reality, they (or someone) probably noticed he additional connections while trying to fix an unrelated problem.
My wireless router is open.
On purpose.
No WEP. No MAC filtering. The SSID is broadcast. The router itself is secure (with a unique port and user id/password and firewall). All of the machines on my network are also secured (the same way). The internet connection is on 24/7. I use it for between 0-5 hours a day and only intermittely at that. I couldn't care less if someone else needs to piggyback on my signal--especialy if it is one of my neighbors. The only people who should be against it are Verizon and Comcast/Cablevision.
I'm happy to share my wireless connection. |
argon_smythe
Citizen
Username: Argon_smythe
Post Number: 780
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 10:50 am: |
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Hooray for you TomD. The amount of damage a wireless "hacker" can do is so limited... and how nice it is when your own provider has some sort of an outage, to be able to tag on to a neighbor's connection for a few hours till it is restored. Too bad we live in a world of superstition and fear mongering!
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Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1230
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 11:43 am: |
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Yeah, I'm shocked this was a Times article - it reads more like a slow news day at the Post. |
Ligeti
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 620
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 3:16 pm: |
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I have a dialup modem, computer with color screen and a speaker. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2514
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 3:51 pm: |
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Color screen? Wow. A big step up from those B/W or B/G screens.
A speaker? Wouldn't want that advanced stereo technology. It might reduce the productivity of your day-timer and almanac. |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1436
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:27 pm: |
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Once again, the Times is 2 1/2 years behind the technology news cycle. |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1237
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:32 pm: |
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Well, to be fair, most people are so ignorant about even the simplest technology issues that (to them) this is 'big news'!
I run into people all the time who continue to pay AOL for an email account... even though there are multiple (better) options out there.
Oh well - a little fear helps sell newspapers, right? |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1437
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:36 pm: |
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True enough, Case. But using phrases like "tapped into their system" doesn't help anyone. There's a need to write about technology for a general audience, but the Times doesn't do it very well. |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 959
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:36 pm: |
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Ligeti, this whole time I thought that you posted by sending express mail to Dave and Jamie who posted for you.
That dialup must drive you insane. |
Ligeti
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 622
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:36 pm: |
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Wrong again, Case. With AOL, I can check my email ON ALMOST ANY COMPUTER. |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1240
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:56 pm: |
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Wow.... that IS a huge feature. Maybe you should send them more money?
I have to admit, basic ignorance is a lot less entertaining than the usual persecution fantasies. I'm actually missing them!
PS to Mayor - as any therapist would tell you, we should always try to avoid the "I" word in certain situations. I am confident that this is one of those situations.
PPS - let's hope he's only sending envelopes through the mail, not packages. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2520
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 10:50 am: |
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ROFL...
"With AOL, I can check my email ON ALMOST ANY COMPUTER."
With gmail or yahoo mail or msn mail or any of the other, I don't know, 10 thousand other free web-based email services, you can also check you mail on almost any computer. And you're not paying ~$300 a year for the privilege. |
Ligeti
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 623
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 12:06 pm: |
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Right, but do they show it to you in color?
AOL does.
End of discussion. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12788
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 12:26 pm: |
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Yes, they show it to us in color.
What next, you'll brag about the fact that your car has power brakes?
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Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1243
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 1:31 pm: |
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Tom, I know you've said in the past that he's only pretending to be... special.... but I had my doubts then, and I have my doubts now. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2525
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:18 pm: |
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I'm really starting to understand why Ligeti has this hatred of technology. Do you use a computer for anything other than MOL and AOL?
Does AOL show you who your mail is from? Hmmm???? Yahoo does! So there! 
End of discussion.
Case, actually, this last exchange makes me believe Tom was correct. I cannot imagine someone can be so out of touch with basics of the web and still be able to post to MOL. |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1245
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 5:04 pm: |
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I don't know, man. The fantasies about the "cabal of low-technologists", the women who love him, his 'research teams' and 'advisors', the people that respect him for using a diary... even if its a joke, it sounds like he's accidentally letting a little too much information leak out, you know?
Its all a very disturbing (and sad) pattern. I wish I had taken more Psych classes in college.
Glad you got the 'mail' joke - it was subtle, I know. 
Still and all, I wish we could confine this stuff to Soapbox.... it hardly seems like a legitimate Technology discussion, right? |
Ligeti
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 624
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 5:19 pm: |
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I thought I was helping! |
TomD
Citizen
Username: Tomd
Post Number: 369
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 12:23 am: |
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You don't think that perhaps Ligeti, when not composing, is pulling some people's legs?
Does a a luddite have the knowledge (or the patience) to make and add an avatar image to his profile and then make 624 posts? |
monster
Supporter
Username: Monster
Post Number: 2394
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 2:01 am: |
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And Ligeti is also known as.... |
Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 625
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 7:03 am: |
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I admit: on occasion, some of my militant technology commentary may be overstated.
But the business about research initiatives, field operatives and a cabal of low-tech warriors? All true. |
TarPit Coder
Citizen
Username: Tarpitcoder
Post Number: 67
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 8:09 am: |
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May as well chuck some petrol on the fire...
So Ligeti, how do you feel about this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1246
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 8:20 am: |
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Well, that's not quite what I meant. However: someone could get help with an avatar, and then posting is simply a matter of... well, typing.
Some people post here to give and receive help on a variety of subjects - and then there's the other kind of poster! Its not like there's a great deal of content to his posts; complaints about printers being too complex to operate, potato chip bags that are too complex to open, some nonsense about vacuum cleaners, the startling revelation that cell phones are annoying... these posts may require a disturbed personality, but they hardly require any type of technology background.
I mean, a dozen posts that state: "cell phones are annoying"? Fine. Great job, I for one really appreciate being alerted to that fact - very helpful. But the posts about his team of field operatives doing 'research projects'? His "low tech warriors"? That's just a sad manifestation of a feeling of inferiority. I suppose we can say that it was all a big joke - was it funny, or is it something to be pitied? And where did that 'idea' come from in the first place? The subconscious is a strange place.
I posted a lot of jokes about how Ligeti is chillingly similar to the Unibomber or John Hinckley - but now I'm really starting to regret those posts. I think there might be a lot more truth to those comments than even I first thought.
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2532
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 8:52 am: |
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I have a feeling his "low-tech warriors" consist of either his kids or the folks in the mailroom. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12802
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 9:55 am: |
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Case, you take him far too seriously. The joke really is on you if you think something is wrong with him. Do you see him as some sort of threat?
I think the extremist views are a joke, an exaggeration of a valid point he makes, which is that lots of people currently overuse, abuse, and misuse technology. Clearly, he doesn't eschew it entirely.
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Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1251
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 10:21 am: |
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Hardly a threat - annoyance, for sure. But threat? Unless he's back on his "I want to have a gunfight with you" nonsense, then I don't see any real threat here.
I suppose if you're right and he's more of a joke than anything else, well... its OK with me if he talks to imaginary people, I just hope they don't start answering him!
Seriously though, the world is full of hypocrites - if he wants to pretend he's the leader of a band of "warriors" I suppose that's his concern. God... I just hope he doesn't wind up in the village wearing face-paint and full camoflage gear.
Then again, at least THAT would be funny. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12807
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
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Maybe I read you wrong. You seem to get truly annoyed. I can't imagine why.
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Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 626
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 12:07 pm: |
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Wikipedia is notoriously lax in their standards of accuracy. Few serious scholars, like me, trust the Internet as a credible resource. It's a grab bag of people publishing "factual" information.
It's always best to rely on proven, low-tech reference materials: a New York Times Almanac, encyclopedias and legitimate reference volumes you can find in the library.
I have my New York Times Almanac sitting on my desk -- right next to my color computer!
As for my field staff: so what if some of them are my kids and people I meet in stores? I wouldn't work with them without first checking their research credentials. |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1252
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 2:29 pm: |
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I'm always annoyed by pointless things like the post above - as I mentioned months ago (in an unrelated thread)... if all you do on a message board is post idiocy, why are you here in the first place?
Everyone uses these boards for different things, of course. |
Camnol
Citizen
Username: Camnol
Post Number: 266
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 4:29 pm: |
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If I had to use AOL, then I'd hate technology, too.  |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1254
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 7:14 pm: |
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No one HAS to use AOL... it's a choice.
Not a great choice, but a choice nonetheless. |
Camnol
Citizen
Username: Camnol
Post Number: 268
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 8:06 pm: |
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Paging Captain Obvious! |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12835
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 8:07 pm: |
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I don't like AOL myself. I call it internet with training wheels. But I see how it's good for some. My father in law, for example, can't even cut and paste, even though I've shown him how several times. I would not recommend he move off AOL or the Mac, and he's asked me.
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Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1256
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 10:13 pm: |
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I've only tried to get someone off a Mac once... my girlfriend (now my wife). I just couldn't face the problems of a mixed marriage.
AOL is just a shame - all that money for (essentially) an email address - but you're right, if someone is used to it and comfortable they should stick with it.
I hate to say this, but I've talked to people who are keeping AOL because of IM. (Yeah, I know, its free - that's why I hated to say it).
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Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 631
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 10:22 pm: |
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AOL has spywear, which can help you track down criminals who are trying to use your password. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2563
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 11:12 pm: |
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Not sure what it is you're talking about, but there is all kinds of software out there to protect you from spyware and other malware. Most of it is free. Though AOL does have a decent integrated PC protection service, you don't need AOL to use it. In fact, many AOL services are available for free without paying AOL. The only things I can imagine that are not free are th chat rooms and their member areas. |
TarPit Coder
Citizen
Username: Tarpitcoder
Post Number: 68
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 8:02 am: |
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The *idea* of AOL wasn't such a bad idea IMHO. What I'm getting at is the idea of providing users with an environment optimized to the machine (This is wayyy back when it first started out). It's kinda like RIP-Term or some of those other groovy technologies.
I always wanted to write a BBS and Client that did some compression and had smarts like the ability to make Atari display-lists, control the sound channels, player-missile graphics, execute code etc.
The thing about AOL that was obnoxious was the idea that it was the 'Internet'. When it clearly isnt. Any self respecting nerd wanted a SLIP or PPP line anyway or at least dialup to a shell account on a VAXen or *insert favorite internet connected host you have fond memories of*.
It's like the idea of web-acceleration via push. Push down the content the user will (based on some analysis of surfing patterns) want to see next. If the modem isnt receiving as fast as possible your wasting bandwidth that could be used to improve the user experience.
--Tarp |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1257
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 8:06 am: |
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Remember everyone: he's cleverly PRETENDING to be that ignorant - its just an act. And a darn fine one... I'm sure it'll be on a Vegas stage before too long.
How does he DO it?
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Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1258
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 8:08 am: |
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Tarpit, regarding AOL... hey, at various points I was an AOL user, a Compuserve user and (get ready) a GEnie user. I agree with what you're saying and I'd like to comment futher except... are you an Atari guy too? |
Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 632
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 10:27 am: |
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Shall I sum up our conclusions about new technology?
Very well.
1. SUVs are a needless menace.
2. Cellphones are ruining the sanctity of public space, and don't impress anyone anymore.
3. Bagless vacuums: a giant step backwards.
4. Books and other low-tech reference tools are far superior to the Internet.
5. Free weights provide a more thorough workout than the overdesigned contraptions you see on infomercials.
6. If everyone used a black Manhattan diary, no one would miss or be late for meetings.
7. More on meetings: compulsive laptop clackers are not welcome. Use a lined yellow pad and pencil to take notes or don't bother coming.
8. Blackberry devices are bad for your mental health. Get your work done at the office.
9. Much of high-tech food product packaging causes anguish and/or injury when opening.
10. Don't mistake the tinny, compressed sound you hear in digital files for real music.
11. The more wireless junk we pile on ourselves, the more distracted we become.
12. Automated customer “service”: the sure sign of a society in decline.
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2567
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 10:49 am: |
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Perhaps you should say YOUR conclusions. I can't help myself. Someone please stop me...
1. SUVs are a needless menace.
Not needless, but often unnecessary. SUVs are not a menace. People driving them are. If bad drivers didn't have SUVs, they'd still be bad drivers.
2. Cellphones are ruining the sanctity of public space, and don't impress anyone anymore.
Cellphones do not do anything but ring and plays stupid ringtones. PEOPLE are ruining the sancitiy of public space. You seem to be the only person I've ever met who thinks people are so concerned about impressing you that they will make up conversations on their phones.
3. Bagless vacuums: a giant step backwards.
Can't really comment.
4. Books and other low-tech reference tools are far superior to the Internet.
Not always. And what of books on CD (not audio, but digitized books [fiction, non-fiction and reference]) that you can read on your computer?
5. Free weights provide a more thorough workout than the overdesigned contraptions you see on infomercials.
On what do you base this?
6. If everyone used a black Manhattan diary, no one would miss or be late for meetings.
ROFL. Yes, because no one wouled ever forget to check their book. Nothing would ever intefere with making it to a meeting. And being able to check someone's schedule online is a tremendous waste of time.
7. More on meetings: compulsive laptop clackers are not welcome. Use a lined yellow pad and pencil to take notes or don't bother coming.
I actually agree with this (though I prefer white legal pads. Computers are a distraction in a meeting, unless something to be displayed on the computer is the purpose of the meeting.
8. Blackberry devices are bad for your mental health. Get your work done at the office.
Unfortunately, some people's jobs do require that they be accessible outside the normal 9-5 routine. For these people, Blackberries allow them to have a life and not sit in the office waiting for someone to call or email.
9. Much of high-tech food product packaging causes anguish and/or injury when opening.
I've never been assaulted by a potato chip bag, so I can't comment.
10. Don't mistake the tinny, compressed sound you hear in digital files for real music.
I hate to tell you this, but unless you only listen to records, you listen digital files for your music.
11. The more wireless junk we pile on ourselves, the more distracted we become.
Agreed. Not exactly controversial.
12. Automated customer “service”: the sure sign of a society in decline.
Also not exactly controversial. It's just a misnomer. It's not customer service. It's customer distancing. |
Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 633
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 11:31 am: |
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3. You don't vacuum your house?
5. I have large muscles.
8. I agree on the basic need to do work outside the office. But Blackberries enable a kind of "whereever I go, I'm in my office" mentality, which can actually erode productivity, according to my research. And let me frank: most Blackberry pecking is actually just pointless fidgeting, like surfing the Internet when you don't know what else to do. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2568
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 11:34 am: |
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3-I don't personally vacuum my house anymore. Nor do we have a bagless vacuum.
5-And this means what?
8-That is no thte fault of blackberries, but of the people using them.
You often balme technology, when it is the way technology is used that is at fault. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2569
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 11:34 am: |
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3-I don't personally vacuum my house anymore. Nor do we have a bagless vacuum.
5-And this means what?
8-That is not the fault of blackberries, but of the people using them.
You often balme technology, when it is the way technology is used that is at fault. |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1261
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 2:06 pm: |
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Give him a few hours to respond, Rastro. There will be a diatribe about health club issues, or something equally inane.... he won't have a reasonable answer for the nonsense list, of course.
I hate to pick on you, but Ligeti was correct when he said "our" conclusions. Just because someone is imaginary doesn't mean they don't count! He's referring to himself and his cadre of ghost-technology-warriors.
I shouldn't make comparisons, but at least the Unibomber had the courage of his convictions. HE wasn't spouting nonsense via the Internet - he was actually DOING something to solve a percieved problem!
PS - I have to say... "anguish and injury" from a potato chip bag - I have a clear mental image of this 'struggle' taking place on a small school bus, if you catch my point....
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TarPit Coder
Citizen
Username: Tarpitcoder
Post Number: 69
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 3:18 pm: |
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Case,
Yeah I still program the old 8 bit 800 just for fun. There's nothing like running your code on the bare metal versus thru a dozen layers of abstraction. Last hack is some starfield stuff I've ported over to cc65 just to check the quality of the code coming out. It isn't too bad - It's like C back in the days when the compiler didn't perform herculean optimization efforts for you. You have to unroll your loops yourself and move loop invariant code outside etc. You also have to give the compiler lots of help with casting - Kinda like Javacard!
As regards Ligeti, I reckon he hasnt suggested any violence in this thread so I tend to give him a fair shake. What he says isn't all BS. It always amazes me to watch suits on their blackberrys.
Anyway I have a bit of a Ligeti streak in me too - when I watch movies where the characters panic and scream and run around mindlessly I tend to want the monster to eat them'.
Tom re power brakes. Geeze even the old Holden back in kiwiland had those - and it was definitely not the height of technology. Whoever desided to take a car which was OK with a straight 6 and throw a 1900cc 4 cylinder in it should have had their head examined. Of course we had CNG on that which was another 30% of a power drop - but it was heaps cheaper than petrol and we had 'carless' days back in the early 80's - you couldn't drive your car certan days because of a fuel shortage in NZ or it may have been because the kiwi dollar was in the toilet... Either way petrol costs heaps there - the tankers have to drive all the way down to the bottom of the planet...
--Tarp
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