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Message |
    
kdm
Citizen
Username: Kdm
Post Number: 43
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 12:20 pm: |     |
I have Mac OS 10.2 and want to upgrade. Can this done for free? Are there any issues (things that might stop working) if I upgrade. Thanks. |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5251
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 12:29 pm: | |
I find Panther more stable and exposé is a nice feature, but other than that, why not wait until Tiger is released in a few months? It's $129. |
monster
Citizen
Username: Monster
Post Number: 525
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 12:42 pm: | |
wait for Tiger |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 64
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 12:27 pm: | |
If Tiger wasn't coming out so soon, I would normally have told you to upgrade cause 10.3 REALLY is a million times better than 10.2.
I have found that every major upgrade to 10.x has been a MUST have upgrade. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5467
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 11:17 am: | |
AlleyGater, is that because you get a lot of good new stuff for your money or because the upgrades fix so many problems? |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 70
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 12:33 pm: | |
BOTH. But to be honest, OSX did have many many problems when it first came out. I never thought it was ready for prime time until OS 10.2 And even though I am a HUGE Apple fan and Mac user, I thought it was unscrupulous for Apple to have been charging money for OSX until 10.2 since it was clearly Beta level software (IMO).
I think that every upgrade adds features, many of which you use and like, but it's worth upgrading more often than not, because of speed ups. I am still HORRIFIED when OSX hangs while I am doing something in the OS (AKA the Finder). I never had these intermittent lags while using OS9. Having said that, OSX is A MILLION TIMES better than OS9 in speed, features, and MOST IMPORTANTLY is the fact that it barely ever crashes. In OS9 I might crash 10 times in one day, which is a 30 minute savings right there (possibly more if you consider lost work and having to hit SAVE all the time).
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monster
Citizen
Username: Monster
Post Number: 531
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 4:01 pm: | |
Hmmm...
A lot of "speed" problems can be solved by repairing permissions before and after installs (or when experiencing various problems), performing routine "directory" maintenance with a utility such as "Diskwarrior", using a utility such as "Cocktail" to run the systems daily; weekly; and monthly cron scripts (these won't be run unless you use a utility to control them, or leave the computer on all night). "Cocktail" can also be used for other maintenance tasks such as clearing the caches and logs, prebinding, network optimization, repair permissions, a few other odds-n-ends, and you can set a fixed schedule for it to run a few of these.
A few of these options can be run from the "Terminal" if you are comfortable enough with it.
One other thing I recommend is to install updates with all peripherals disconnected, when doing a system update, like the recent update to 10.3.8, I suggest downloading the "combo" update package from Apple and using it to update your system.
If your system is not "Journaled", then occasionally (or when you are having slowdowns, app crashes, or general weirdness) start up in single user mode and run a file system check, this can also be done by booting up off the install CD, opening "Disk Utility" and repairing the disk, or boot off of an external hard drive.
If your system is Journaled you can force this repair by starting up with the shift key held down, and booting into safe mode, then restart as normal.
Another utility that I like is "Maintain", it does what "Cocktail" can do, but it can do more.
To learn more about "Maintain", and for the latest version, go here; http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/7380
it was just updated the other day, for some reason the developer hasn't put it on his webpage, which is here;
http://homepage.mac.com/mar0588/maintain1/Menu16.html
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kdm
Citizen
Username: Kdm
Post Number: 44
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 1:16 pm: | |
Monster - Does Norton Utilities do the same things as you mention these other utilities doing?
I assumed that Norton did pretty much anything that needed to be done get a grumpy Mac back to it's normal self. |
monster
Citizen
Username: Monster
Post Number: 540
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 6:40 pm: | |
DO NOT! I REPEAT, DO NOT USE NORTON ON OS X!!!
I have heard far more problems that Norton has caused in OS X, than what it has resolved.
Besides the options that are available with OS X (Disk Utility, which is pretty simple to use, the power of UNIX via the Terminal, and NetInfo Manager, the last two being for more experienced and not faint of heart users), I recommend the utilities listed below.
Run these at least once a month, are when things are getting a little slow, and/or wonky....
1) DiskWarrior; 8 times out of ten, it's all you need. http://alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/index.html
2) TechTool Pro 4; for that other time when you need something a little stronger, and/or for regular system maintenance along with DiskWarrior
http://www.micromat.com/tt_pro_4/tt_pro_4.html
3) Cocktail; regular system maintenance, file maintenance, a few tweaks here and there, and a little of this and that...
http://www.macosxcocktail.com/index.html
I repeat, if you have Norton on your system, un-install it and put the CD's in a drawer somewhere, Norton is fine for OS 9 and below, but not for OS X, and it won't be developed or supprted past Panther.
A few other utilities for OS X that can be helpful
SMARTreporter, a utility to warn you of S(ATA) hard drive failures. DW and TTP4 above also have this function.
http://homepage.mac.com/julianmayer/
Intech SpeedTools; http://www.intechusa.com/
Preferential Treatment; http://homepage.mac.com/jonn8/as/
Back Up User prefs; http://www.m-t-software.com/software-backup.html
MacJanitor; http://personalpages.tds.net/~brian_hill/macjanitor.html
Macaroni; http://www.atomicbird.com/
One of the most useful utilities you have at your disposal, is yourself.
Backup-backup-backup-backup-backup!
Backup everything you think you need to, and then everything else too, because when you absolutely need that backup, it will be ten minutes after you forgot to do it.
And speaking of backups...
http://www.versiontracker.com/php/search.php?mode=basic&action=search&str=backup &plt%5B%5D=macosx&x=0&y=0
I tend to use "Carbon Copy Cloner" the most. http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html
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AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 76
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:18 am: | |
Monster, you really know your stuff. Thanks for all that info.
I was sorta under the impression that OSX didn't have a lot of needed utilities to fix your machine. I knew that Nortons was bad. And I thought Disk Warrior (my best tool in OS9) was not needed in OSX. Tech Tool Pro was always one of those things in OS9 that I would use if Norton or Disk Warrior wasn't working. But once again, I didn't think it was needed for OSX.
To be honest, I thought in OSX if fixing the permissions and Disk First Aid couldn't work, well you better back up your User folder and reinstall. |
monster
Citizen
Username: Monster
Post Number: 545
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 12:06 pm: | |
For most people, repairing permissions usually helps.
I haven't wiped and installed a fresh system since OS X first came out, it's my little experiment.
I've upgraded the system along the way, all the way to the present 10.3.8, when I first installed OS X I did the drag and drop for installing all the OS 9 stuff for classic, from my Smurf to my iBook, had to tweak it a little here and there but everything worked fine. I couldn't even tell you the last time I've used Classic, I ususally only look at OS 9 when I need to refresh my memory to help someone out, like my wife who still uses it.
I've used "Carbon Copy Cloner" to clone my HD from one Mac to another when getting a new one, and everything is still working fine.
I've only really needed to use TechTool once, I was having a lot of problems that I couldn't work out and DW wasn't helping, I had thousands and thousands of overlapping files reported, or at least the file directory thought they were.
I ran diagnostics and repairs for about 7 days straight over and over to see if I could fix it, I had a feeling the HD was failing, but it didn't show up that way...that is until the 7th day.
I had a recent backup so I wasn't really worried, called Apple for repair, AppleCare is a good thing.
My iBook was stolen during shipment, always erase the drive when sending in for repairs, at least if you have a backup, so Apple replaced my 600 combo iBook with a new G4 iBook, since my old RAM and Airport card wouldn't work in the new model, Apple sent me replacements that would.
Just Gotta' Love Apple
Anyway, the HD that I had backed up, is running fine on it, I just used TTP, DW, and Cocktail the other day to run maintenance, and even though OS X isn't supposed to need optimizing, I did that too.
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Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5305
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 12:57 pm: | |
Here's a hack to install OS X on a PC
http://emon.aaronx.com/pearpc.html |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5549
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 1:31 pm: | |
This doesn't make sense to me. The PPC is a different processor than the Pentium and therefore has a different instruction set. You can't write a hack to make PPC programs run on a Pentium, unless it's a processor emulator. |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1466
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 1:48 pm: | |
It is tom, in a way. It's called Bochs.
"Bochs is a highly portable open source IA-32 (x86) PC emulator written in C++, that runs on most popular platforms. It includes emulation of the Intel x86 CPU, common I/O devices, and a custom BIOS" |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5550
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 2:05 pm: | |
Are you sure the thing in Dave's article uses Bochs? Bochs emulates the pentium. The thing in Dave's article would need to emulate a PPC on a Pentium, which is the opposite thing. |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1467
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 2:14 pm: | |
You right Tom it's to emulate a PC in a linux box. I got mixed up, I'm not sure what pearPC uses as a base I think it's also C++
http://www.pearpc.net/faqs.php |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5551
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 2:24 pm: | |
Gee, all this emulation stuff is pretty nifty. Thanks for letting me know about both Boches and PearPC. |
monster
Citizen
Username: Monster
Post Number: 546
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 4:30 pm: | |
You can also run OS X on an Xbox,
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~ranma1/mac_install.html
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5557
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 4:35 pm: | |
I would expect that to be super-slow.
That's weird. It made more sense when I saw articles about running Windows on an xbox.
I recently read an article about how someone noticed that a certain Linksys file server, into which you plug a hard disk, actually runs linux. It took a bit of hacking, but it's now documented. The system is only about $80, without the hard disk. It's not fast, but consider that you can actually get a useful computer for $80 plus hard disk! Um, no graphics, as far as I know, so it doesn't run everything. |
monster
Citizen
Username: Monster
Post Number: 549
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 4:46 pm: | |
I've seen this, http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html
but nothing about hooking a HD up to one. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5558
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 4:53 pm: | |
No, not that. That's a wireless router. I'm talking about a file server. That article has the link I'm talking about: http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sections-article85.php
This turns the file server into a Linux server, which, admittedly, not many people really need.
Ooh, but the router article gave me an idea! I have a similar model. I've been thinking of blocking certain services at certain hours of the day, to control what my kids can do. Thanks.
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monster
Citizen
Username: Monster
Post Number: 551
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 4:57 pm: | |
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kdm
Citizen
Username: Kdm
Post Number: 45
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 2:33 pm: | |
Monster and Others - thanks for the advice about Norton. Could you be more specific about the problems with it? On a scale of 1-10 on Mac knowledge it sounds like some of you are 9+ and I'm about 5, but I was under the impression that that Norton software was generally very good. I know it has done wonders for me in the past (on OS 9 and earlier) so I'm surprised they would create something that wasn't good.
Thanks. |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5315
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 2:37 pm: | |
OS X is a form of unix, which is designed to take care of itself fairly well. Norton can only interfere or repeat what OS X is already doing. |
monster
Citizen
Username: Monster
Post Number: 557
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 3:53 pm: | |
Norton has been known to cause Kernel Panics, failure to shut down-restart-wake from sleep, the creation of crosslinked files, and repeated appearances of serious volume directory problems.
Symantec has even confirmed these problems could arise.
SymOSXKernelUtilities.kext, and DTDaemon seem to be the underlying cause of these problems, even after removal of Norton these files can remain and cause problems, deleting them seems to be the right move.
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AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 92
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 12:22 am: | |
I also remember when Norton for OSX first came out, it's disk optimization program was actually destroying peoples whole hard drives (making people lose their data permanently). I THINK this was fixed fairly quickly (to be honest OSX works in such a way that pretty much eliminates the need for disk defragmentation tools to begin with), but the damage that was done to Norton's name couldn't be repaired in the Mac OSX world. I'm sure it probably has some feature or other that might be handy to someone, but most of us know not to use it. |
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