| Author | Message | ||
     melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 168 Registered: 6-2002 |
Well, its another new year and, with the IDEA revisions up and coming, we will be facing new challenges in maintaining services for our child with special needs. Already, we have received an IEP with our comments left out (sigh) and my child's physical therapy services omitted. This will be round 4 of revisions and I am seriously thinking about pulling her out of servies altogether - it is just too much embattlement. I hope that, since I am out of district, that the general experience with our IEP process is helpful or provides insight for others going through this complicated, important hurdle without implicating anyone. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 4730 Registered: 12-2001  |
With all due respect, and for those of us with no knowledge of your situation, could you spell out the IEP and IDEA acronyms, so that at least I can have a better sense of what you are up against? As it is I do not know what your post means, but I do get the sense that it is not good. | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 170 Registered: 6-2002 |
Of course - so many of those floating around... An IEP is an Individualized Education Program; it's the "plan" that they use in education to track progress of general ed and special ed services. IDEA is the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act of 2004 (just recently revised). It determines what child study teams can and cannot do, what they must and don't need to do. The new revisions include things like: 1) leaving the general ed teacher out of IEP meetings [with your permission] 2) reducing the number of reports to parents about their children's progress 3) changing the goals on the IEP from short term to long term 4) reducing the number of IEP meetings from once a year to three times a year (with permission) The problem becomes: most parents don't understand that child study teams are ASKING if they can delay progress meetings or leave the teacher out of the meeting. The IEP itself is a lengthy, jargony, document that can be very confusing and indecipherable, depending on how hard you and the child study team work to break it down. Sorry for the jargon. m | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 330 Registered: 10-2003 |
Melicious, I'm in a graduate program at Montclair State for special ed. They have a ton of resources there, as well as grad students eager to gain practical experience with in all facets of a child's education (from IEP to general ed). As well, I've taken two semesters of IEPs, and while it's not the same as having a child in the process, I am happy to offer you any insight, contacts or assistance I can. Please don't hesistate to ask, either here or via p/l. If I don't have the answer, I'm happy to find someone who does. You are not alone in this. I know it's exhausting, but it is so worth the battle. | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 171 Registered: 6-2002  |
thanks i will pick your brain. this is year five for us in "the system." we are well-educated parents who STILL struggle with getting our voices heard. i actually work in educational evaluation (of special ed programs around the state, no less). if i struggle, just imagine what others go through. the state has set up parent involvement as a priority, based on their self-assessment. http://www.state.nj.us/njded/specialed/ssesar/ however, empowered parents can be a challenge for the system. we have found it useful to: 1) cite the Core Curriculum Content Standards that are impacted by my child's impairment 2) tape record IEP meetings (we had numerous, "I never said that" problems - not anymore) My child is transitioning to middle school. that means a change in child study team, Occupational Therapists, not to mention environment and general ed teacher. These can all be stressful. I have already met (with my child) with the counselors there to try to smooth the transition as much as possible. | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 172 Registered: 6-2002 |
Just spoke with the head of the child study team at my child's school. Argh! We have asked her to try and keep all communications written (the "i never said that" problem, again), but she just told us that our $800 private assessment of our child's abilities is "very thorough" but that they are not obligated to include the recommendations in the IEP. ...and so it goes m | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 173 Registered: 6-2002 |
Just found the best website and group...Mothers from Hell 2 - a group for moms of kids with disabilities. They listed this on their site (pretty dang funny. Most IEP meetings consist of a child study "leader," the people who do your child's services (Physical Therapist, Speech Therapist...), the general ed teacher, you and a lot of tension. This is the perfect remedy. --------------------------------------------- 10 WaysTo Have More Fun at Your IEP Meeting by Karen Experanza & Patricia Powell 1. Wear costumes. On the meeting invitation, say, "Festive Dress Required." 2. As an equalizer, require all attendees to wear Groucho glasses. 3. Require all attendees to bring a musical instrument. 4. Provide refreshments: Jalapeno Cheetos, and red Kool-Aid. 5. Invite Hillary Rodham Clinton. List her name on the cover sheet 6. Try this introductory exercise: If you were a color, what color would you be and why? 7. Play background music-anything by Frank Zappa. 8. Give everyone a set of five flash cards to be used as the mood strikes: * Who invited him? * I love your hair! Where did you get it done? * I’m sure we can trust that this will get worked out. * Does the law have any bearing on this? * Excuse me for 10 minutes while I can call my lawyer. 9. Have the TV in the room tuned to the Court Channel. 10. Keep score. Give a really nice door prize to the IEP team member (parents excluded) who makes the most positive comments about your child. Award grand prize to the IEP team member who makes the most negative comments about your child-the winner gets to provide 36 hours of respite care, in their home, to your child. | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 176 Registered: 6-2002 |
Funny thing happened... we just got yet another revision of the IEP (this time it omitted anything we had added in previous versions). Included in this, was a hand-written note to the middle school child study team leader. It said, "GOOD LUCK with these parents..." I'm wondering if we should mention it to this woman who [obviously] didn't want us to see that. What a boob. She can't even disrespect us well. I remember a time when taking my child to school didn't make me twitch... | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 343 Registered: 10-2003 |
speechless... | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 344 Registered: 10-2003 |
Okay, I'm not speechless now. Don't mention it to the woman who didn't want you to see it, rather, send the love note with a letter back to her, cc'ing the principal (and anyone else you deem necessary), simply stating you assume this note was attached to your child's IEP by mistake and you wanted to return it to her. It will humiliate her, and in front of her supervisors no less. And she will NEVER write those words again with regard to any parent. That is so utterly disrespectful. Everyone on the CST has to know your common goal is the academic success of your child, and that there is nothing easy about going through this process year after year. Shameful. | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 179 Registered: 6-2002 |
thanks for the suggestion. i wonder what happened to her (CST case manager)... she probably went into special ed to help kids, but somehow it comes out like this. our district (not maplewood) is notorius for being disrespectful. my daughter's PT told her last year, "you don't really want to do PT because other kids will make fun of you, right?" she came home crying. montclair (our previous district) was not like this. they weren't loving, but they didn't work directly in opposition to you. i heard from a parent in, i think, river edge, that parents who challenge their children's IEPs are taken directly to court for due process. they use this to intimidate the parents in the district and it works. she paid 8Gs for an attorney and won, but imagine... | ||
| sk8mom Citizen Username: Sk8mom Post Number: 295 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mel, Under IDEA, if you prevail in court, you can apply to the court to have the school district pay your atty's fees. Unbelievable story, but sadly, in some school districts, some of these CSE heads are absolute tyrants. If you end up going to a hearing and you have a good case, comments like that can be devastating to the school district. Have you considered using an advocate? If communications become strained, it can be helpful to have a mouthpiece who has had other dealings with that school district. I love the list for IEP meetings. When going to an important business meetings with lots of very important men in impressive suits, I sometimes have the urge to bring a big cake and say, c'mon, it's got to be SOMEBODY's birthday! Mel, las, anybody -- any experience with 504? As to one of our 504 requests, we were told that 504 means "no funds attached." If we want that accommodation, we would have to go thru classification. We are in the process of trying to work this out, but I was wondering if anyone else had this experience. | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 351 Registered: 10-2003 |
No, Sk8, I believe you were ill advised. 504's are supposed to offer accommodations without the child being classified. I don't know the statistics, but I thought 504's were granted more freely than IEPs, because the IEPs need the approval of so many players. 504's can be granted in emergencies (say a kid breaks his hand and can't take the standardized tests, with a 504 he'd be allowed to have an aide fill in the dots. He's not classified, he's just getting enough accommodation to take the test.) and sometimes teachers/staff can obtain one if a child's guardian won't consent to the IEP (and by not having one in place, the child is at serious risk of failure). I believe IEPs cover specific learning and other disabilties, whereas 504s encompass general level-the-playingfield issues, with no inclusive list of criteria. I'm sure Mel has much more experience in terms of how to make the district actually pay for the 504 accommodation. I think their response was an attempt at bullying you - maybe you should bring the birthday cake next time! | ||
| sk8mom Citizen Username: Sk8mom Post Number: 296 Registered: 11-2003 |
It was put to us as the edict of the SOMSD: "504 means no funds attached." As you say, it doesn't sound legal, but do you know of any specific authority that this is not legal? Second, we don't want to get adversarial (or at least we're not at that point). There is a plan to provide the accommodation, although it's not moving forward at the rate we would like. | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 181 Registered: 6-2002 |
it depends on the accomodation. is it an accomodation (as compared to a service)? wrightslaw is a great resource to look things over. they have advocacy suggestions,too. http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/sec504.index.htm the difference comes down to a key point: does your child's impairment impact educational attainment or not? if it does, that is eligible for services under IDEA. if it doesn't, you can try for a 504. go through the NJ core curriculum content standards http://www.state.nj.us/njded/cccs/ and see if your child could reasonably be expected to achieve these goals. the trick that many school districts (including ours) play is to postpone and postpone in court until you go broke paying for YOUR lawyer to show up. so, IMHO, you may be better off trying to negotiatite out of court. advocates are expensive. we are broke paying for outside evaluations and specialists. we do usually bring in a knowledgeable friend or colleague just to "witness" the meeting. can you talk about your child's situation? is there anything i can do? | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 353 Registered: 10-2003 |
From the U.S. Department of Education (Office for Civil Rights): http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html Section 504 prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in programs or activities that receive federal financial assistance...IDEA is a grant statute and attaches many specific conditions to the receipt of Federal IDEA funds. Section 504 and the ADA are antidiscrimination laws and do not provide any type of funding. So 504's offer accommodations that don't cost anything? How does that work? | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 188 Registered: 6-2002 |
ha ha! good question. if they adjust your desk or chair height it costs them nothing. if they give you more time on tests (from your example) it costs them nothing. if they make sure that you are in gym class (and not excluded) that (theoretically) costs them nothing. stuff like that. i think that, most schools already have ramps, elevators... through the ADA compliance regulations. they just have to make sure that you have ACCESS to education. once you're there, they dont have to do anything. m | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 354 Registered: 10-2003 |
But if 504's must be in compliance with the ADA, there has to be some federal money for it, no? Isn't there a way to get money if, say, all your kid needs are speakers near her desk? Isn't that just providing equal access to the teacher's voice? | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 190 Registered: 6-2002 |
i think that hearing the teacher's voice would be educational impact - an IEP. i have friends who have kids with central processing issues and their FM systems are covered. ADA ensures physical access -as i understand it. so, higher desks, wider bathroom stalls and doors, ramps... i could be wrong... m | ||
| sk8mom Citizen Username: Sk8mom Post Number: 298 Registered: 11-2003 |
Our issue is in the category of central processing. The monetary issue is for the procurement of equipment. Mel, your friends with the IEP's and covered FM's, are any of them in SOMSD? Thx to both of you for the websites. I will check them out. I am still confused about 504 and funding, however. Even if IDEA is a grant statute, 504 can be one of those "unfunded mandates." That is, just because 504 is not a funding statute, does that mean the SD can refuse to provide an accommodation otherwise proper under 504 because it would cost money? | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 355 Registered: 10-2003 |
I believe the SD can only refuse to provide an accommodation because they don't believe the child needs it. Which brings us back to Mel's original post re the PT omission... | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 191 Registered: 6-2002 |
no, my friends are in another school district. central processing is something that definitely impacts your child's educational attainment. so, it should be covered under IDEA, not 504. regarding FM systems, they are about $1500 - not a lot for a school district, really! the two tricks to that are: 1) make sure the teacher is trained in using it, 2)try to get the FM system to follow your child through the grades. one thing that happens is: a teacher learns how to use the FM system and then they put kids with central processing issues in THAT teachers class (so they can use the FM system). YOUR child is then outta luck, because there's only one system (usually, or two). they'll say, its too difficult to train ANOTHEr teacher, so the system stays here. make sure that this issue enters into the conversation. fyi, i have written grants for districts that needed FM systems. a target store grant can cover one. if you need funds, there are ways to get it yourself. | ||
| sk8mom Citizen Username: Sk8mom Post Number: 313 Registered: 11-2003 |
What is a target store grant? We were told 504 would cover auditory processing. Would rather not go through classification unless necessary. But the SD is making a distinction on the ground of expenditure of funds, which, as I've said, is confusing to me. | ||
| Leonard Neeble Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 9165 Registered: 1-2003  |
melicious, what school are you dealing with? If you'd rather not say, is it an elementary school? If you'd rather not answer that question either, I can respect that. | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 229 Registered: 6-2002 |
hey there, ln - i'll take a pass on the school specifics (especially since dave and jaime's law suit) but my child is in 5th grade (elementary) housed in a middle school. we are outside of maplewood. i just had a slimy thing happen today. they sent my IEP while I was on vacay and now can't get it back before they legally must accept my comments. nice! i told them i was going away, which makes it even creepier. argh! m | ||
| jennie Citizen Username: Jennie Post Number: 54 Registered: 5-2001 |
You have the right to request another IEP meeting at any time. A recurring theme of IDEA is parent participation, and if the district rejects your comments they are sure violating the spirit, if not the letter, of the law. | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 236 Registered: 6-2002 |
yup...that's what's written. i work in the evaluation of special ed programs and one thing that typically happens is that there are involved parents, and then there are involved and empowered parents. many districts like the former. show up and sign off. my husband and i take this stuff seriously and ask lots of questions. he was actually asked not to "ask any more detailed questions" about my daughters progress. we have been in 3 districts since she was classified. this one is the worst. the chld study team is not very unified, the communication is poor and there is a lot of back biting. add to that a parent who questions why it is that, in MAY (of last year), all of the teachers still didn't know what was in my child's IEP. they get defensive and aggressive. the law does provide protection, but who really wants to go to due process? its expensive and consuming. with a child who lives with disabilities (as well as 2 others) its difficult to find the time and resources to fight - and they know that. OH< FYI - a target store grant is a grant you can write (with the district) to target asking for funds. i just asked (on the 2nd day of school) for an IEP meeting. let's see how the middle school child study team does... m | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 245 Registered: 6-2002 |
well, we have some of the classroom modifications made - after week 4 - and are moving towards getting the band teacher to understand that a child living with disabilities can still participate in music. my child is LOVING middle school - a total surprise. the added independence and clubs are just right. i have to hand it to the counselors there at school. they are really helping to get her involved. the iep meeting is still to come... | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 466 Registered: 10-2003 |
That's great news, Mel. Sounds like the counselors know what works and they are pushing Little Mel into becoming part of her own community. I'm so glad for you both ('tho I find it disturbing a MUSIC teacher isn't getting it...). Looking forward to reading about more accommodations. L. | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 294 Registered: 6-2002 |
Forgotten accomodations - yikes - again! Just found out that the teacher didn't know anything about her math accomodations for testing. The poor kid has been pushing herself to exhaustion to complete stuff and finally hit the wall on a test. When I asked her what happened, she said, "I went as fast as I could." Well, she is not supposed to be timed. The teacher, a doll, has been working on everything else and hadn't been "clued into" that one. I need yet another Child Study Team meeting. I wonder how I will be able to have the stamina to get through all of this weekly stuff. Every day I have to be vigilant and I am so tired of it. Why can't they get it together? I know they have a lot of kids, but its flipping November. The upside is that my child is happy with her placement. She has a couple of friends, even. Its just the educational aspect that is troubling - just that!  NOW, my middle child has just been classified with a learning disability (no surprise there, given exposure to lead) and I am seriously considering private school. At least you are considered a "customer" who pays and is to be responded to. I need to focus on the positive - even if there is little of it. Its sooo hard, though! | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 642 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mel - congratulations on your daughter getting the lead in the school play! re your middle child: what's the diagnosis? 'Relatively' easy to accommodate? | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 301 Registered: 6-2002 |
wahoo! the play!!! boohoo! the classification! my middle child has dyslexia and, i think, from my experience with her, visual processing (not sure if intake or output) issues. in addition, her memory is greatly impacted. i ran the VMI on her and it came out a full grade level lower. wish it were easier, but its gonna be another battle. they are waiting for her to fail, before they make the final decision. huh? "let's wait until the child is completely defeated before we do anything to help her." because my oldest has physical issues, we were able to make the determination sooner. THEN, we tacked on the educational supports she needed. look forward to hearing from you,las. off to a school meeting (its like an angry opposite form of dating)! | ||
| Cedar Citizen Username: Cedar Post Number: 171 Registered: 10-2002 |
mel,sk8mom - I totally feel your frustration. I've read this thread with alot of interest, all along. I'm the mom of an LD only child, nearing the end of my rope. Don't know what to do next, how to do it, etc. I only know its not working, here. las - thanks many times over for your input; many know you have better ways to expend your time! Your input is invaluable, although when I get to some links, its bureaucrat-speak to me. Can anyone point us to a place to help us sort it out/link, or guidance? Anyone have some time to hash it out with a neophyte? | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 302 Registered: 6-2002 |
SPAN (Statewide Parent Advocacy Network) is a good start. They can direct you to support groups, advocates, etc. www.spannj.org I am walking the fine line between losing it with the district (sometimes they back down) and trying to work collaboratively (sometimes they embrace you). With TWO kids now needing services, my thought process is a bit different. Cedar, anything I can do to help you work the system (I am just so successful, right?) I will do. I am now taping IEP meetings, bringing a friend to hold my arms, and getting 2nd and 3rd medical opinions. I need a support group in my town that does ANYTHING! Our town (Westfield area) has a supportive, but not advocacy centered group that wants to whine. I need action and advice. I'm back to my SPAN contact and an attorney that will do a consult for free - can't pay otherwise. Happy Holidays and strength to all of you | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 454 Registered: 6-2002 |
IEP re-eval meeting is next week for my oldest. I am sick already. While my daughter's teacher is wonderful, she doesn't see my daughter crying and struggling with Math (because we do all the extra work to help her through). Her write-up is based on her seeing my child do okay on tests. NOT the struggling or difficulty that I see. This will be the 10th meeting I have had with people who are resistant and ignorant of their own field. AAAAHHH!!!!! Already they are questioning my bringing a friend with me - um, its my right - and taping. I am so tired of this. Do these people just hate kids or what? This is about my CHILD and the services that she, by law, is entitled to. They didn't let me know about the meeting until one week before (supposed to be 15 days), but I can't fight the small stuff because then they don't listen to the BIG stuff. She is still falling in gym and in walking around the school - they just don't care. Her hand STILL doesn't close - dangerous on monkey bars, rope climbs, etc...She is still needing to deal with sensory issues in class and, because she is gifted, they don't care. She comes home crying from the pain in her legs. I ask her if she mentions it to her teacher and she says, "No, because she is busy and this is just my life..." They have HER convinced that there is nothing she can do about the stiffness in her legs... amazing. I do not know how I will do this. I really don't. I am already so pissed off and the meeting hasn't even started. My child is in pain - she can't focus on school work at the end of the day. She can't do gym. She has GREAT difficulty with Math. Isn't that a reason to be concerned? Oh well, when violation is inevitable, assume your favorite position... | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider  Post Number: 14478 Registered: 1-2003 |
Are you saying she succeeds in math because you tutor her? Is it possible for you to stop? That could expose the problem to the school. | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 455 Registered: 6-2002 |
Yup. If I didn't spend hours with her, pre-teaching her the units, before they come up in class, and then reinforcing the current unit, her goose would be cooked. Not so easy. If I stopped, just to show them, I'm afriad it would add to her feeling of defeat - not a good thing. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14488 Registered: 1-2003 |
I didn't get my kid's school to step up to the plate until I did this. It's tough. But preserving her feelings is less important to me than getting the school to do its job. And we have found other resources to use. It was a losing battle for me to be tutor. My motto: if the student didn't learn it, the teacher didn't teach it. | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 3389 Registered: 9-2001  |
My ex took our kids to Warwick, NY, which has a fantastic school system and lots of resources. Two of my kids are classified with IEP's, we had great meetings with the teams when they moved to town, everyone was on the same page, whoopee! One year later, the teachers have totally not followed the IEP for my middle son, despite one emergency meeting (we insisted) and one amended IEP (we also insisted). We get all the right lip service, they all say all the right things, and then the teachers (who are part of the team and all meetings) treat my son in the worst possible way and the resource teacher is about as useful as a stone statue. I won't even go into their behaviours, but I am impressed and amazed that my son has managed to keep a positive self-image and not shut down--so far. We are finally getting some real change--after we a) hired our own tutor with a specialty in special ed issues, b) hired our own advocate to help us understand what our rights are, and c) told the team we plan to have our lawyer sit in with us at the next meeting to make sure we understand all the jargon properly (wink wink). Suddenly, the school social worker is our best friend, sending us emails on all the new things they are doing to help my son (all of which were part of the IEP, if only they had followed their own plan). Suddenly they agreed that an inclusion class IS a good idea for next year (notwithstanding that we told them a year ago that he did best in that enviroment when in Maplewood). We tried to work with them, tried to play like we were all on the same team--one committed to helping this child succeed--but in the end, it seems that all they respond to is the threat of outside intervention and legal moves. How depressing. Mel, I hear you, it is hard enough taking care of kids with disabilities, let alone parenting in general--it should not take so much energy and personal resources to simply get what you are due under the law. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3581 Registered: 3-2004  |
the difference comes down to a key point: does your child's impairment impact educational attainment or not? if it does, that is eligible for services under IDEA. if it doesn't, you can try for a 504. No, 504 requires impact on educational attainment also. |
