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csm
Citizen
Username: C_stew
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 3:17 pm: | 
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I am furious about parking problem at train station. The wait for a permit is over 300 people long. There are spaces available but you can not park in them before 9:30 with no permit. There is no where else to go except two lots that you need a million quarters and they are often full or the meters are blocked from use. I have written to NJT and the Town. Both say the other is responsible. The vending machine to buy tokens to park is impossible and often broken.
It is very hard if you need to get a train before 9:30. The spaces that are available for non-permit holders are full by 7:00 at best. If South Orange isn't responsible then who gets to keep the money when I get my $22 parking ticket? Who keeps the money when you do get a permit? |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 682
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 3:35 pm: |
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csm: The South Orange Parking Authority (SOPA) handles the parking permits and the enforcement of the lots.
Before Midtown Direct, there was virtually no waiting list for a permit. Even with over 300 new spaces (most of them in the NJ Tranist lot), there is now a shortage of spaces available.
SOPA is responsible for the maintenance of the NJ Transit lot and the token machines although they are owned by NJ Transit.
Currently one can park in the Shop-Rite parking lot for $5.00/day although that will only be a short-term solution (3 - 6 months?). There are usually spaces available there.
It takes 12 quarters for the long-term meters.
The village gets the revenue from parking tickets.
S. Orange has a limited amount of land and it is not the job of the village to make sure there are spaces for every commuter. We currently have jitney service that covers two areas of town. The plans are to expand the service to the whole village (in 18 - 24 months). If you live in another town, I suggest you urge your town council to start a jitney service for commuters to a train station. W. Orange already has jitney service.
Do you live in S. Orange?
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shoshannah
Citizen
Username: Shoshannah
Post Number: 274
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 5:40 pm: |
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Some other towns do not restrict the number of permits. That is, a permit does not guarantee you a spot. It's first-come, first served for the parking spots in the morning. Would this work for SO? |
Mergele
Citizen
Username: Mergele
Post Number: 21
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 7:25 pm: |
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CSM, while I sincerely appreciate your concerns over the parking situation (been there, done that), and speaking only for myself, I would be livid if the parking authority entertained a change to the current regime to make permit parking 'first come, first served" in the NJT lot as shoshannah suggests. I waited a long time for my permit, begging rides to the train from a very good friend or getting up really early to snag a day spot, and now pay a premium for the privilege of an extra hour of sleep in the morning.
I knew what I was getting into when I chose to move to SO and figured it was something along the lines of a rite of passage :-)
"Cats climb because being ruler of all you survey sucks when all you survey is ankles." -- Unknown
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peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 277
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 8:48 am: |
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How long is the wait for the NJ Transit lot? I moved here about 2 years ago, waited about 9 - 10 months before getting my permit. (and while I'd surely like a "town" permit -- I am glad just to be able to park!).
Has the "line" for permits gotten longer? The new housing in town is all within walking distance -- otherwise there is little "new" housing. Unless SO is becoming more of a commuter town?
I, too, would not favor a "first come first serve" lot. To me, that defeats the purpose of the permit to begin with!
Pete |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 683
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 8:53 am: |
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The wait for the NJ Transit lot has been less than two years.
I think it would be very unfair to sell someone a permit for $55.00/month and not always have a space. |
mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 432
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 9:44 am: |
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Pete,
69 townhouses in the quarry certainly won't help the parking situtation at the train. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 282
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 10:03 am: |
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MHD -- good point. but I wonder, really, how long is it going take for them to sell that many, very very expensive townhouses? won't be overnight I don't think. on the other hand -- maybe we could lobby for the jitney to swing by Speir (my street), then Mayhew, and then by Tillou? ;-) Pete |
ashear
Citizen
Username: Ashear
Post Number: 734
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 10:06 am: |
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I think the view that its not the town's problem is a little short sighted. When we were looking at houses investigating the commute was a a big issue for me and we basically did not look in SO because of the parking problem. (I live in Mwood) Eventually this may effect property values I would think. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 285
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 10:13 am: |
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I think there is probably some level of "scamming" going on everywhere. I have "acquantances" in SO who moved from Maplewood. Instead of getting SO parking permits -- they keep renewing Maplewood...I don't ask how.
AS I mentioned I parked in the NJ Transit lot in SO for about 9 - 10 months using tokens, occasionally I'd have to feed the meter at the lot near the library. It worked for me.
Is there *no* parking like that anymore? And is MW that much different/better in terms of commuter parking?
Pete |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3590
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 10:56 am: |
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Maplewood has a first come, first serve system. You buy a parking permit or a combination jitney/parking permit for somewhere around $150 per year. That allows you to park in the lot by the train station and on nearby streets.
The lot is getting pretty full by 6am when I show up btw.
There are also spaces available to all comers on a daily pay basis near the station and at the corner of Baker and Maplewood on property owned by or leased to NJ Transit.
Sometimes, I really would like to go in a little later. 
I think the conflict in SO is based on the "haves" with parking permits and the "have nots" without them.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 684
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 12:29 pm: |
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This morning at 7:45 there were still a lot of empty spaces (daily ones) available.
Ashear, I did not think that the situation was any better in Maplewood or Milburn either. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1986
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 1:01 pm: |
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"Sometimes, I really would like to go in a little later."
Wouldn't we all Bob... IMHO, by far the least expensive, the most logical and the fastest way to reduce this parking problem is to expand the jitney routes, and implement the All Day Jitney route.
As stated by Mrosner, "South Orange has a limited amount of land and it is not the job of the village to make sure there are spaces for every commuter."
So ask yourself, what is less expensive, paying $5.00 per day to park at the Shop-Rite parking lot, a $22. parking ticket, building a multi-million dollar parking garage, which in effect will only bring more traffic into a town that already has more than it needs, or paying a dollar for a jitney ticket?
Our "Two towns, one community" needs “IT’S OWN” public transit system that specifically services our residents. The sooner we get it, the faster we relieve the parking problem... |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 686
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 2:25 pm: |
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AJC: At one point the two towns should coordinate the jitney service. I think once both towns are up to speed and assuming the grants would not be negatively impacted by putting together coordinated routes, then I think we could have a really great system and one that could bring people to both downtowns.
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thegoodsgt
Citizen
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 291
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 2:51 pm: |
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We speak a lot about cooperation between Maplewood and South Orange, but let's not forget West Orange. As Mr. Rosner pointed out, they have a jitney which, I believe, goes to the SO station. For example, it's not difficult to imagine pulling it into an tri-community jitney plan that might bring a jitney all the way down Gregory to serve those who live to either side of it. I've got to believe that there's strength in larger numbers of commuters.
If I were king, I'd be bring the leaders of these three communities together to create a plan that benefits everyone. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 688
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 3:01 pm: |
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thegodsgt: Good point and we should include W. Orange in a coordinated effort.
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ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1988
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 3:25 pm: |
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Thanks Mark... After the first of next year, I'm hoping there will be a better climate for expanding a coordinated jitney service with the Maplewood Township Committee. This should be especially true after we present the petitions I’m gathering between now and then.
If there is anything I can do to help you further this program in South Orange, please feel free to give me a call.
BTW, I’ve been thinking…. how would you feel about having an annual joint public meeting between the Maplewood Township Committee, and the South Orange Village Trustee’s?
There are certainly enough common interests in both towns to share. It could kind of be like a mini joint master plan discussion of sorts. Each year a number of ideas could then be brought back to their respective towns for further consideration. The hope would be that at least everyone who wished to be involved might at least be conversant, and hopefully even on the same page.
I feel the groundwork for this has already been set by the continued promotion of the “Two Towns, One Community" advertising over the past few years. I also believe this could be an interesting way to bring some dialog to the common interests of both governments, plus it would give all the residents in both towns an opportunity to contribute their input as well?
Thanks again for your continued participation in our community, and I’d very much welcome your comments... Art
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 689
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 3:35 pm: |
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AJC: I would have no objection to having a joint meeting with Maplewood. We should probably start to have discussions as soon as the elections are over about shared services.
Btw, I sent you a privateline email but if you do not get it for some reason, could you email me.
thanks |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 286
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 3:40 pm: |
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A joint transportation plan is a wonderful idea.
It would not work for me relative to train parking -- b/c I need to drop my 7 year old son off at before-school care and then pick him up at the Y.
It would be great, though, for my teenage daughter to get more easily from SO to Maplewood, or for her friends to come here. (We live closer to West Orange than Maplewood!).
And my retired parents visit frequently -- but prefer not to drive much, it would be helpful for them, too.
A thought -- is there anyway that this could be linked with lowering school transport costs in the district? (e.g., my daughter is bussed to/from school - the bus leaves CHS and could probably pass through both villages without adding too much additional travel time).
Pete |
woodstock
Citizen
Username: Woodstock
Post Number: 413
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 4:30 pm: |
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Pete - Excellent idea! When I was growing up (particularly JHS and HS), I took public transportation to and from school. I got a bus or subway pass, which gave me free (or discounted) access to the busses and trains.
I have to say, when Art first proposed his "Ring of Fire," I was more than skeptical. but now that things are being discussed more, and more ideas are coming forward, I can definitely see the value in having a local transportation system.
How much does bussing cost the school district for JHS and HS students? Ideally, perhaps that budget could be rolled into (or partially fund) a general transportation system. The jitney service could also be rolled in.
I'd only suggest not getting too grand in terms of coverage initially. It would be best to complement, not try to replace, NJT busses.
Heck, we could trade in the school busses for LPG or electric busses, and save the environment too! (though I have no idea what the purchase/maintenance costs of those busses are relative to other busses)
Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him
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doublea
Citizen
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 315
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 7:13 pm: |
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These ideas are all excellent. The additional jitneys with service to the western part of town should help commuters a lot.
I think Ashear's comment has to be acknowledged. The driving force behind the increase in property values has been the midtown direct. Prospective purchasers shouldn't be turned off by an impossible parking situation.
The NJT parking lot was built and paid for by NJT, on the condition that parking would be available to non-residents as well as residents. This stipulation was accepted by South Orange because the cost was picked up by NJT and it was anticipated at the time that the lot would be used in the evenings and weekends for SOPAC.
Any additional efforts should be geared towards South Orange residents.
Even though I'm not a commuter, I have a vested interest in South Orange having enough parking spots and /or jitneys for commuters to maintain or raise property values. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 693
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 9:40 am: |
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doublea: I agree that all efforts should be geared towards residents. I think the jitneys are a must and I only hope that they will be used by a sufficient number of people to have an impact on reducing the number of cars during the rush hours.
The NJ Transit lot is available to non-residents as well as residents because NJ Transit was legally required to do so. They would not have had a problem giving preferential treatment to residents if they could have.
There are always spaces available in that lot on weekends and evenings. I know that has been a help to the local businesses because there was a severe shortage of spaces on Saturdays prior to having that lot. |
ashear
Citizen
Username: Ashear
Post Number: 736
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 10:47 am: |
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Mr. Rosner - maybe I don't fully understand the parking situation but for $120 year in maplewood (with no waiting list) I can always find a spot, even at 8:30. My max walk is a few minutes. Is the same true for South Orange. If so I was misinformed. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 694
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 11:02 am: |
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Ashear: If you have a permit you can find a spot. If for some reason all the permit spaces are filled, one can call the Parking Authority and they will direct you as to where you can park without getting a ticket.
There is a waiting list in S. Orange. I wonder why Maplewood does not have a waiting list. I cannot imagine they have enough spaces for all the commuters.
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vermontgolfer
Citizen
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 116
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 11:33 am: |
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I would assume it's because Maplewood allows parking on the streets, which are in walking distance to the station, I don't think an option in SO. |
ashear
Citizen
Username: Ashear
Post Number: 737
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 12:58 pm: |
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Exactly right vermontgolfer. I can always find a spot with a few minutes of the station with my $120 per year sticker. Given that why would I move to SO where I would have to wait years for a more expensive sticker. It really was key to my choice of where to move. Anyone in Maplewood can get a sticker and park within walking distance to the train station. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 695
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 1:07 pm: |
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ashear: Isn't there a limit to the number of stickers they will give out?
I wonder how the residents who have cars parked all day in front of their houses feel about the situation.
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bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3607
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 1:40 pm: |
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The topography, for lack of a better word, is different in Maplewood. There are a lot of residential streets within a five to eight minute walk to the station. Also Maplewood has an extensive jitney operation that cuts down on the demand for parking.
Since people were parking in front of houses before the sticker system went into effect this, oddly, doesn't seem to be that big an issue, although backing your Hummer out of the driveway with cars parked on both sides could be less than enjoyable.
The fee is so low people tend not to complain if they can't park within 100 yards of the station. Permits are only available to residents.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 696
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 2:51 pm: |
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Well, It will be a while till we catch up on the jitney service.
As for all-day on street parking, I doubt we will ever allow, but you are right that they have many more streets that are within walking distance.
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kevin
Citizen
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 102
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 11:20 am: |
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NIMFY (haha)
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csm
Citizen
Username: C_stew
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 3, 2003 - 7:49 pm: |
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Thursday the 30th parked in lot next to Rescue Squad. Tried to put quarters in meter #13 and it wouldn't take them. I could not miss my train flagging down the parking guy since I had an important committment in City. It was before 9:30 so I had no other options, even though the train lot was empty and I had tokens. This is what makes me crazy. South Orange wins again.
South Orange gets the revenue for tickets but blames NJT for parking problems, but then doesn't maintain meters. How do you fight City Hall? |
Guesswho
Citizen
Username: Guesswho
Post Number: 45
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 3, 2003 - 8:50 pm: |
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Couple of suggestions CSM.
1. Put a note on windsheild that meter was broken.
2. Call Parking Authority (or NJT if it's their lot) and tell them about broken meter and you parking there.
3. Fight ticket in court.
BTW, DID you get a ticket? You never clearly say.
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csm
Citizen
Username: C_stew
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 3, 2003 - 9:17 pm: |
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Yes, I got a ticket. And you're right about leaving note but I didn't want to miss my train. I need to leave earlier I guess to be more prepared for the circus of parking. I have tried fighting in Court before and it invloves taking the day off work for a $22 ticket. The court schedule is very inflexible. I regularly call the Parking Authority..token machine broken, etc. and this time I didn't even bother because they have been so unhelpful in the past. The answer is always "you should take the shuttle" even though I work late nights and this is not an option. I have written letters to both NJT and South Orange. I have gone in person and I have complained to anyone who would litsten. What makes me nuts is the double standard..it's South Orange revenue but blame NJT. I hardly want to defend NJT, but
who is to blame for the rule for no parking before 9:30 and there sits 20 empty spaces? If South Orange doesn't want to maintain their meters and the token machine is broken half the time, (let alone it needs perfectly pristine bills and doesn't accept coins)then South Orange should not get the revenue from parking violations.Give it to charity if you have to nail me, but if seems to me South Orange is scamming money and doing nothing to address problem. |
kevin
Citizen
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 107
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 3, 2003 - 10:18 pm: |
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CSM,
You say that on the 30th before 9:30am that you had no other parking options. The ShopRite parking lot is open for your business with friendly attendants.
Perhaps you should consider this option if you are running late or have an important committment in the city. It beats dealing with the meters.
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woodstock
Citizen
Username: Woodstock
Post Number: 464
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 3, 2003 - 10:22 pm: |
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I do agree that SOPA needs to do a better job maintaining the meters if they want to be able to ticket people in those lots. I figure, if the metert is broken, that's their problem. ou wanted to pay, bit their machine wouldn't take your money. You shouldn't get a ticket for that.
But they can't do much about the NJT lot. My understanding is that NJT runs the lot, and that SOPA doesn't determine the policy. I also think that NJT owns the token machines. It's ridiculous that the machines require such pristine bills. And sometimes even the perfect bills don't work. Actually, I find an older bill that's still in decent shape works best.
Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him
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Yossarian
Citizen
Username: Yossarian
Post Number: 72
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 4, 2003 - 8:36 am: |
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csm -- There is just no way you should get a ticket for parking at a broken meter. What was your other option? Leave the spot? That just doesn't make sense. I used to live in Monmouth County, and the parking situation at my station there was just as troublesome as it is in SO. I took a 6:02 train every morning, and had to get to the station at 5:50 to get a spot. And I always tried to get a broken meter (there were always several of them). Never once did I get a ticket (other cars did get tickets if they were illegally parked, on the grass, for example, or at a permit space if they didn't have a permit). That was a NJT lot, presumable operated in the same way as the SO lot. But who owns and operates the lot or the meters doesn't matter. PARKING AT A BROKEN METER SHOULD NOT WARRANT A TICKET.
This has to stop.
And another thing. Why should you have to write a note. The parking officer can't check for himself that the meter doesn't work?
How embarrassing for SO. |
paddy
Citizen
Username: Paddy
Post Number: 138
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 4, 2003 - 9:10 am: |
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I've had a meter break on me. I called the PA and they told me to write a letter and send the ticket to them. I did that and they resolved the matter.
In fact, I keep a small pad & pen on the dash now for just that sort of thing. |
fred block
Citizen
Username: Zachary2
Post Number: 50
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 4, 2003 - 10:55 am: |
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There are several meters which are not working near the train station. I have reported several of them and the Parking Authority advised me that they will take care of the problem. They also advised me that if you have parked in a broken meter spot, tell them that day and they will make a note of it in order for you not to get a ticket. The parking authority has overall been very nice regarding this matter. |
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