| Author |
Message |
    
woodstock
Citizen
Username: Woodstock
Post Number: 481
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 11:33 am: | 
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Dave,
Any chance you can get a shot down the foul lines, showing the tree locations? I know you have SO much free time... but it would make it that much easier to see that the trees would have to come down to reasonably put in dugouts.
Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him
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J. Crohn
Citizen
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 653
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 11:42 am: |
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"As far as I am concerned, SHU will have to chip in to cover the cost of maintenance or I will ask that we ban them from using the field. And I think we should do that with or without dugouts."
Indeed.
Are there other Village properties SHU uses but doesn't pay to help keep up?
If so, I hope you will entertain every single one of them as a bargaining chip in extracting payments from SHU to offset our loses from services to the university.
Again, is it the Village attorney's job to research the matter of whether there are precedents in NJ for charging students/universities fees (e.g., rental or parking or some other use fee) to help cover police and fire services not paid for by taxes?
Given our fiscal situation and the prospect of large tax increases next year, it seems like recouping SO's costs of hosting SHU should be a red-hot priority just now. |
J. Crohn
Citizen
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 654
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 11:46 am: |
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Oh, and by the way, forty-foot long, ten-foot high concrete dugouts sound ugly as sin to me.
Are they really necessary? |
soresident
Citizen
Username: Soresident
Post Number: 86
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 11:50 am: |
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My understanding is that Seton Hall already takes care of maintenance of this particular field (including the tarp that often covers it). This has been a major plus for the town's baseball program, which has grown to encompass over 700 kids last year. |
joso
Citizen
Username: Joso
Post Number: 133
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 1:13 pm: |
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Dugouts may be appropriate in a town that has it baseball fields situated in acres and acres of open space, but not in this town or on this field that is shoehorned in between a stream and the street. The idea of these monstorous structures in this location is absurd. It may seem like a great idea for the kids, but there are other ways to boost their esteem, like showing up and watching their games. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5671
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 1:17 pm: |
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See John Gross' response above as relayed by Mark. SHU will not maintain the dugouts. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 341
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 1:32 pm: |
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IF there was consensus that the dugouts were needed, would improve the fields for the non-Seton Hall teams playing there --
THen its probably a fair trade for the village to maintain them. BUT I'd like to know what that means -- if its a coat of paint every couple of years and a new roof every 30 years that's one thing.
and no, I have not seen the plans -- and I don't know it this thing has a roof!)}
It should be easy enough to calculate estimated costs for maintenance and replacement. Sounds like the materials are all pretty standard stuff. The village ought to ask SHU's architect to do that. Its a couple of hours of work (basically to take the materials list in a spreadsheet, look up the values, plug them in).
Pete |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 342
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 1:51 pm: |
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Hasn't a developer been drawing up plans and presenting them for changes/approvals?
WOuldn't the developer be working on some premise of timing? Otherwise -- why would they be investing in all this preliminary legal, design, and architectural work?
It just does not make sense to me.
(unless of course the developer is also Beifus)
Pete |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 344
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 2:27 pm: |
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sorry -- message on wrong thread... |
mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 510
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 2:31 pm: |
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lol...I was wondering why a "developer" had been hired for legal/design/architectural work for a DUGOUT. Seemed a bit overengineered to me  |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 770
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 2:35 pm: |
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I think the maintenance issue is really about keeping the dugouts clean (litter, soda cans, etc) and grafitti as Dave points out will magically appear on a regular basis.
Basically the building is concrete.
As pointed out last night, we thought a duguout would be three or four steps down and about four feet above ground. It was not clear to me on the plans other than the length.
I am not sure I would call them "monstrous" but certainly large as far as dugouts go.
SHU wanted them done by the spring. The village does not have a timing issue.
Further discussion will be held at the meeting on the 24th.
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Hlime
Citizen
Username: Hlime
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 2:55 pm: |
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Does SHU get to paint the dugouts? Will they obtain advertising for their own revenue from the cement structures? We need to get more from SHU than cement slabs. We need real financial contributions. And we should NOT move forward with this until they show us some money. |
J. Crohn
Citizen
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 656
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 5:11 pm: |
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"Dugouts may be appropriate in a town that has it baseball fields situated in acres and acres of open space, but not in this town or on this field that is shoehorned in between a stream and the street. The idea of these monstorous structures in this location is absurd."
I'm inclined to agree. Has anyone discussed the aethetics of this decision, or are we looking at a purely utilitarian project? Because I really think SO needs to avoid making the sorts of building decisions that net us lots of butt-ugly concrete graffiti opportunities.
Do dugouts come in more than one style? How about something that adds to the town's architectural charm, rather than detracting from it? |
joso
Citizen
Username: Joso
Post Number: 134
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 5:32 pm: |
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What is the possible attraction of dugouts, no matter how aesthetically pleasing they are. They are covered up holes in the ground into which the players (our children) descend. In this way they are sealed off from any contact from the spectators (their parents). One might try to make the argument that it will protect them from the elements, but as far as I can see games are cancelled when even a threat of mist is in the forecast. No matter who pays for and maintains them, and how pretty they are (unlikely) they are an impediment to the enjoyment of the game and a waste of money. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5672
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 5:43 pm: |
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It's one botch-up after the next. We can't afford any more mistakes aesthetically or financially. Good thing I'm lining up Independent films for the SOPAC opening. So far we have:
SOPAC Vapor Dreams: the missing dedication (an existential exploration into emptiness by playwrite Harold Pinter)
Village Market Boondoggle: A hillarious story of trial by fire for an impulsive attorney turned grocer (by Steve Martin)
Beifus Tundra (a modern day interpretation of Lawrence of Arabia)
The Amazing Disappearing Steak House (a bloody rare who-dunnit by Alfred Hitchcock; starring Robert De Niro and Joe Pesci)
An Anti-Christmas Carol with SHU (adaptation of Dickens' work starring George C. Scott, where Scrooge learns that never giving, always taking is for the good of all )
Tennis Bubbles (an adaptation of Spaceballs)
and now...
The Graffiti Exhibition Space: a PBS documentary about adapting urban art in suburban landscapes |
mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 513
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 5:55 pm: |
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Don't forget that Horror flick - The Quarry Chainsaw massacre |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5673
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 6:02 pm: |
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We can't let kids see that in a non-existant theater!  |
vermontgolfer
Citizen
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 188
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 7:45 pm: |
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joso,
I'm neither for or against the dugouts, but as I understand it, SHU needs them for their women's softball team, in order to comply with some league guidelines that require such structures. I may be incorrect on this and if someone knows differently, washashore about you, just kidding wash, you've been very good lately, please correct my statement!
I'm still voting for Woodstock though! |
galileo
Citizen
Username: Galileo
Post Number: 117
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 10:56 pm: |
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Couldn't these dugouts be hangouts for teens at night? |
dgm
Citizen
Username: Dgm
Post Number: 156
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 9:54 am: |
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why doesn't Seton Hall use Ivy Hill Park. It is even more convenient for them.... |
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