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Message |
    
CageyD
Citizen
Username: Cageyd
Post Number: 51
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 9:32 pm: | 
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I am hoping a trustee - or other wise person - can help me understand the logic of the leaf collection in SO. We blow the leaves into the streets, hoping that they are picked up before they are blown back into our yards. While in the street, they block the roads and cause hazardous driving conditions, when they are picked up it takes 5 or 6 men per team to pick up the leaves (1 to run the front end loader, 1 to drive the dump truck, two-three to shovel the leaves that fell from the loader and truck and another to manage traffic). Why not have us put our leaves into recycleable bags and leave them in front of our homes and then the roads aren't clogged with debris, the driving conditions aren't impacted and it would take half the time and man hours to drive around and heave bags into the back of a truck. THe current system seems staggeringly inefficient. Is there a reason the leaf collection is done in this manner? |
mary032
Citizen
Username: Mary032
Post Number: 17
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 9:48 pm: |
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KGD,
It would take 30-40 bags evry week to put in them all the leaves from my prpoperty. I like the present system.
Mary |
vermontgolfer
Citizen
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 232
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 9:59 pm: |
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cageyd,
the gardeners would love the extra income they would make from having to put the leaves in bags, I'm with mary032, let's leave it alone and get something for all these taxes! |
amh
Citizen
Username: Amh
Post Number: 14
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 7:05 am: |
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I agree with Mary and VG. Despite the drawbacks to the current system, I don't like the alternatives much either. |
NCJanow(akaLibraryLady)
Citizen
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 1098
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 8:20 am: |
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Several town DO require bagging in the fall (we do in the spring). Theree is a lot of flack from residents due to the expense of the bags and extra effort necessary to bag thosands and thousands of leaves. On the other hand, unbagged leaves are a hazzard, causing sewer clogs in the case of rain and impeding traffic.
It's a lose,lose situation unless we get more manpower to clean them up, which will cost more, which will raise taxes, etc.
And poor me, I live on a county road where there hardly ever pick up the leaves.
What I am saying is I have no solution.
NCJ aka LibraryLady
On a coffee break..or something like it.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 804
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 9:36 am: |
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Cageyd: The above responses seem to represent the majority (or a vocal minority). Trustee Steglitz raised the issue before I was on the board. Even though it would save the village money (even with the village paying for the bags), and make for safer driving conditions (especially when the roads are wet), most people would rather see the present system remain in place.
I would prefer to see the village require bags.
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peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 368
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 9:51 am: |
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On my street, I don't think bags are at all necessary. Street is wide enough, little traffic, not too many cars parked on the street.
OTOH - some of the narrower streets in SO (and in Maplewood) -- the leaf piles could be a hazard. To me its more so the drivers who don't appear to want to slow down and yield a bit to oncoming traffic.
Library Lady -- do you live on Wyoming? And therefore the village doesn't pick up your leaves? That's a nuisance I never thought of before!
BTW -- in my previous town, there was no leaf pickup. I mulched them all (which really is not so bad to do, I vacuumed/shredded the leaves, then put them in a compost area in the back yard). Others bagged them and paid the disposal company extra to take them.
Mr. Rosener/Trustees -- does the village pick up leaves as a "courtesy" or is there an environmental/state mandate?
Pete |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 805
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 10:06 am: |
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Pete: I guess one could say it is courtesy, but some will point out with our high taxes it is service that is paid for.
The county does pick up the leaves on their roads, just not as frequently as the village does. The problem is much worse on Scotland Road.
I think for safety reasons alone we should consider requiring bagging of leaves. It might be an inconvenience and would probably increase the cost of using a landscaper, but I think from the issue of safety it should be a no-brainer. I know there are some who think people should just drive slower and be more courteous. It just does not work that way though. |
aplastic
Citizen
Username: Aplastic
Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 10:15 am: |
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mrosner is correct,bagging is much less expensive for the Village. Where our DPW works 7 days a week to collect leaves in the street, comunities that bag don't require such extensive overtime for leaf collection.
Another problem with raking out to the street is an early snow; the plows end up pushing the leaves back onto the lawn. |
JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 116
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 10:22 am: |
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I think of it like the piles of snow we have in the winter - and walk/drive accordingly. It's a temoporary nuisance. Personally, I do not like piles of leaves in front of my house and have been composting the leaves. Leaves are great compost - that might be something worth promoting in the town. And know the volume of leaves I have been moving, bagging them would be wasteful (bags) and nearly insane, even if you have a gardener. It must be cheaper to have the town deal with the piles rather than having someone bag them (paid by homeowner) and then to have the town pick them up. I think the "hazardous driving conditions" in this area have more to do with drivers than leaves. |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 10:47 am: |
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At the rate we are cutting down trees this will not be a problem in the future (just had to get that in)!
Maybe we need to understand alternative pickup methods - vacuum and chop. What does the DPW do with the collected leaves? Do we compost at the dump and then give it away. Is this a saleable item? Is there any incentive to make artificial logs? Etc…….
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 806
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 10:48 am: |
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jjc: I agree we should promote composting the leaves. It might cost more to have them bagged than the tax savings for some people.
I am sure there are some drivers who just need to go slower. However on some hills even at very slow speeds, when you come to some wet leaves, it is dangerous. My "favorite" hill is Laurel and winding down to Wyoming Ave. I suggested to the DPW that they try and do hills like that one more often for safety reasons. |
JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 117
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 11:03 am: |
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Totally agree with more frequent pickups in some areas - I was speaking more generally. As far as bagging - wanted to make clear that the total cost of this (whether paid directly by homeowner or indirectly thru taxes) would be increased if bagging were added to the mix. Not sure that spending more total $$$ on this would solve the safety/nuisance concern. Also - Seattle's program collects yard waste year-round (milder climate, more self-gardeners) and sends to a private company for composting. This is then sold back to Seattle-area consumers in bulk and thru retailers like Home Depot and Lowes. It's a money maker. |
dgm
Citizen
Username: Dgm
Post Number: 157
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 11:15 am: |
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I have been amazed at the prompt and efficient cleanup on my street! The Village is doing a good job! I have a large lot and I cannot either compost or bag the 1500 pounds of leaves that fall every year. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 807
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 11:58 am: |
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dgm: I agree that this year the pick-up has been much better than some years, mostly because the weather has been cooperating. Last year we already had some snow making matters worse.
Let's hope that the snow holds off till after the last pick-up.
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vermontgolfer
Citizen
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 234
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 12:03 pm: |
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If someone wants to let me use their backyard for composting, I'd be happy to bring them the tons of leaves I get every year. Seriously, for many of us composting is just not an option. |
JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 119
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 12:11 pm: |
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VG - While you are correct that the sheer volume of leaves makes it a different ballgame here, I think the mindset here is different as well. Not to pick on you but your attitude is typical (for NE) - "someone else needs to help me". I would like to see more us us be part of the solution. Of course it is easier to dump them in the street! But you could compost SOME of your leaves. If everyone else did this, we would be looking at progress. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 808
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 1:27 pm: |
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JJC: I agree that it is a mindset and maybe we should figure out how to educate people - including myself.
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vermontgolfer
Citizen
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 235
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 1:54 pm: |
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JJC,
No offense taken and maybe it is a mindset, but frankly with everything else we have to do day in and day out, composting leaves isn't high on my list. |
CageyD
Citizen
Username: Cageyd
Post Number: 52
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 12:44 pm: |
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Perhaps a good compromise would be to have there be a leaf pick up schedule. In the past when I have called the town to see when the leaves in my neighborhood would be picked up they couldn't tell me. All they could tell me was that the pick town-wide would start on date X(november) and end on day y(december). I was hoping to get at least a general idea of when the town would be working in my neighborhood but it doesn't seem to work that way. Can't they come up with a general schedule e.g. leaves in my neighborhood will be picked up between the 21 - 28 (for example) and then again a final pick up between the 2-8? Then we would know when we should blow things into the street and that would limit the number of days the roads were clogged with leaves. Just and idea..
Also, for what it's worth, I grew up on over an acre and a halfn with many trees. Every year my family spent a week end raking and bagging - it was hard, dirty work and I would rather have been watching TV but it was - in retrospect - an annual family activity that that brought us together for a week end and I now look back on it fondly especially counting all the bags at the end of the weekend and having impromtu leaf fights with my siblings. Reading some of the posts it appears that putting muscle and sweat equity into your home has largely gone our of fashion. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 181
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 1:56 pm: |
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Cagey D's point about a schedule is well taken.. it could solve one of the problems of having leaves in the street for weeks before a pick up.
Also - I would prefer to use bags - my property is not large, nor do I get a ton of leaves from my neighbors. Unfortunately, the bags will not be taken in the fall so I'm forced to put the leaves in the street. Is there any reason the town can't allow for both? |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 107
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 3:17 pm: |
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Cagey:
Your comment on "muscle and sweat equity" is unappreciated. My spouse and I put plenty of both into our home for years--doing everything, and I mean everything, from raking to mowing and snow shovelling, to painting and major alterations by ourselves. I was probably the only woman in South Orange who had her own wrecking bar.
Now, however, we are more than thirty years older and we just are not physically able to do the things we used to do. Raking leaves makes my allergies act up, my husband has a bad back, and we both have arthritis. So we hire people to do the hard stuff for us, and we don't feel the need to apologize to anyone for doing so. Before you make judgements, it might behoove you to think a little. |
mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 564
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 5:23 pm: |
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I think leaf collection is one of the things the Village actually does right & does well. The pickups are frequent enough that it just doesn't matter EXACTLY when they come. Some of us have more important things to do than care or keep track of when the next leaf pickup day is.
Many of the homes on Mayhew/Harding have what look like fireplaces in the rear of the yards. I assume they used to be used for burning the leaves. Certainly putting the leaves in the street and having the town pick them up is a huge improvement.
With all the taxes we pay, we might as well get SOMETHING for it. I say keep the system as it is. |
Duncan
Citizen
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 1218
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 7:35 pm: |
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"The pickups are frequent enough that it just doesn't matter EXACTLY when they come. Some of us have more important things to do than care or keep track of when the next leaf pickup day is."
Wow.. thats a tad egomaniacal aint it?
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"
Wayne Gretzky
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mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 565
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 11:03 pm: |
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No, but having your picture on every one of your posts sure is.  |
CageyD
Citizen
Username: Cageyd
Post Number: 53
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 1, 2003 - 1:12 pm: |
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Lizzie -
I was really making an observation - more than a judgement. As opposed to when I was young - which I realize was a while ago - many people spend their money rather than time to get things done. Although it does free up some time to take this route, there are some unexpected perks to doing things yourself. Also, even in my day older folks did farm out their projects to kids on the street - $20 to rake the leaves  |
woodstock
Citizen
Username: Woodstock
Post Number: 491
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 2, 2003 - 1:28 am: |
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I'm surprised that people think leaf collection is something the town does well. Or perhaps it's on a street by street basis. My street's leaves (Jessica Way) have not been collected at all this year. In fact, a SOPW truck drove up the street next to mine (Blanchard), and pushed a large pile of leaves into the road next to another pile, blocking more than half the road with leaves. Then they left. Cars have driven through it enough that it no longer blocks the entire right side of the road, but it's still a hazard when it rains. And with tonight's frozen rain, I wouldn't be surprised to see an accident in the morning.
Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him
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us2innj
Citizen
Username: Us2innj
Post Number: 912
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 2, 2003 - 5:54 am: |
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Some of the streets in South Orange really have fallen through the cracks when it comes to leaf collection. We travel Lenox and I don't think the piles of leaves have moved on inch in the last six weeks.
Here in Maplewood, they have collected the leaves three times on our street. The sweeper comes around either that day or a day later to tidy up the curbs.
They use the large claw on our street, but have seen the vacuum used on others. |
woodstock
Citizen
Username: Woodstock
Post Number: 492
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 2, 2003 - 7:06 am: |
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This morning at 6:45, the little truck came by to push the piles around. I'm hoping that was a prelude to actually picking them up, rather than just redistributing my nieghbor's leaves to the street in front of my house.
Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 814
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 2, 2003 - 9:54 am: |
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Woodstock: I will check to see why they have not picked them up. Should have been done twice by now.
usinnj: I live on Lenox. The leaves have been picked up twice already and there will still be one more pick-up.
The sweeper usually makes a run at the end of the cylce to tidy up. |
woodstock
Citizen
Username: Woodstock
Post Number: 496
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 3, 2003 - 12:39 am: |
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Mark,
Whatever you said must have had an effect. When I came home tonight, the leaves were finally gone from my street. Blanchard still has its leaves, but they picked them up from my block.
Thanks!
Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him
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mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 581
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 3, 2003 - 7:34 am: |
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Yesterday, I happened to get caught behind one of the trucks that had been filled with leaves on it's way to the recycling center. Ironically, there was no BACK to the "dump truck", so as the truck drove down the streets, a large number of leaves flew off the truck & wound up back on the street.
Shouldn't a large tarp or something be used to cover the leaves to prevent them from flying out? |
aplastic
Citizen
Username: Aplastic
Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 3, 2003 - 11:20 am: |
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mayhewdrive:you are correct, it is the law that loads be covered. |
Sesame
Citizen
Username: Sesame
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 12:51 pm: |
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Anyone who thinks leaves should be bagged obviously does not have many trees on their property. Early snowfall is clearly a problem, but on my street everyone was furiously raking on Thurs and Fri knowing that the leaves would be picked up by the town before the snow fell (why? because it makes sense). Sure enough the leaves were scooped up just as the snow started to accumulate. Due to large volume I didnt get all of mine up, and do not look forward to bagging the rest for spring bag pickup. |
CageyD
Citizen
Username: Cageyd
Post Number: 61
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 8, 2003 - 1:44 pm: |
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Sesame, I am glad your leaves got picked up before the snow fall. Ours are still piled up in the road but now they are covered with snow. They were pushed into large piles by the town last week but they never got the chance to pick them up. |
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