| Author | Message | ||
     woodstock Citizen Username: Woodstock Post Number: 490 Registered: 9-2002  |
I recently had an email converation with the sales woman from Pulte sitting on "The Manors at South Mountain." I questioned her about the taxes on the properties. Initially she had said the taxes would be around $25k . This, on houses to be sold at over $900k a piece. Assuming the houses are assessed at 63% of sale price, they should be assessed at around $570k, with taxes of over $30k. WHen I asked her about this, I got this response: "The accessor has really been working with us. Please feel free to contact her, in fact she encourages it. Her name is Ellen and her # is (973)378-7715 Ext 7729. Yeas she is bringing them in under $500,000." Are you kidding me? Where was the assessor to work with me when my house was built, to bring it in 20% under what it was assessed at? Where is the assessor working with doublea to reduce his taxes, like they were reduced for his neighbors? I hope someone from the town can refute this, and speak with the assessor about it. It's outrageous that these new homeowners might be given breaks that other town residents are not being given. Special consideration? I'll be calling Ellen Malgieri in the morning, but if this is really happening, I'll be expecting a reduction in my taxes in the coming year. Can any trustee or other town employee respond? BTW, I'm posting so late because I just got back from the hospital. I'm a dad again  Gotta have enough kids to make the school taxes worthwhile Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 3957 Registered: 5-2001 |
It is called market clout! The development will bring a lot of tax dollars into the coffers of The Village. From the late, great reval wars in Maplewood the one thing that became very clear is that the assessor has a lot of different methods to use in setting assessments and wide discretion to boot. From Woodstock's posts and a couple of others it seems that the usual method in SO is to take the purchase price times the equalization ratio to get the assessment for a new or remodeled for sale house. Does there have to be consistency in methodology? Is there some justification floating around that the development will not use a lot of municipal and school services so they "deserve" lower assessments? | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 570 Registered: 5-2001 |
Woodstock, Good work & Congratulations on the new arrival! From your post last month: "Why do you assume Pulte will do anything so deceitful? I can't speak for them around here, but in other parts of the country, they've got a decent reputation. They're a very large company, not some fly-by-night "skip town" builder. ...I'm surprised you would make assumptions about how Pulte will sell these properties. Have you spoken with anyone from the company? Do you have any idea what they plan to do? I'm glad you are finally seeing what the rest of us have seen at over 2 years of Planning Board meetings. Now the larger question is how is the Village ALLOWING this to happen? | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 571 Registered: 5-2001 |
bobk, At the Planning Board meetings, the developer CLAIMED these units were targeted at "empty nesters". (implying no impact on schools) While $900,000 is unlikely to attract very young couples, I'd be surprised to see many "empty nesters" buying 4 & 5 bedroom houses & townhouses that are around 4000 square feet. | ||
| doublea Citizen Username: Doublea Post Number: 367 Registered: 3-2003 |
woodstock: Please get in touch with me. You, your neighbors and I have to go to a BOT meeting. There was also a house next to me that had been assessesed at $400,000. It was put on the market but couldn't sell because of the high taxes. The tax assessor lowered the assessment in 2001 to $300,000. It was immediately sold for $450,000. Enough of this ad hoc nonsense. If they want to get the assessments in line, then do a revaluation. Please contact me. | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 3961 Registered: 5-2001 |
Actually a $450,000 sale price and a $300,000 assessment makes sense. The equalization ratio of .63 times the sale price comes out to around $384,000 for the assessment. In hand grenades and horse shoes close counts. I think this is also the case with assessments.  | ||
| doublea Citizen Username: Doublea Post Number: 368 Registered: 3-2003 |
In 2001 the assessment percentage was higher than 63%. Woodstock: I've e-mailed John Gross asking him what the assessment will be. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 813 Registered: 4-2002 |
doublea: I am assuming that an appeal was filed on the house next to you and that the assesor did not just give an adjustment. She is usually very fair and I have never heard of an adjustment being given because a house did not sell. Also, you do not say what your assesment is or if there is something that would make that house worth a lower amount. Woodstock: Congratulations! I think you should wait till you get the full story. There is no "deal". If MHD is right, the sale price of the homes will have to be reduced in order for them to sell. Bobk: The tax assesor has to be consistent. I think anyone who talks with her will find that to be true. | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 574 Registered: 5-2001 |
Based on Woodstock's email, taxes of $25k, would mean an assessment of around $475k (at the current tax rate of 5.28) on a $900k house. That is an assessment percentage of 53%! Woodstock - aren't the BASE prices $900k, meaning that additional upgrades etc would likely add another $100k that would also be assessed at 53%? Or is the assessor "working with them" so upgrades are not assessed? | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 373 Registered: 8-2002 |
about "upgrades" -- in my previous home (built new) -- the developer only reported the base price of the house (minus *many* upgrades) for tax purposes. they did this partly by having me pay the subs directly, partly by having me pay for the options before closing. in our case the upgrades added at least 20% to the price of the house (cabinets, flooring, hi efficiency a/c, appliances, lighting, etc., etc.) of course the developer then paid a lower transfer tax rate to the county. (and yes, obviously my real estate taxes were lower, too) -- but ultimately this is the kind of accounting that got Enron in trouble! maybe this is typical for new home developers in NJ? btw -- i would assume that any sales person for the builder would say almost anything to give the illusion that taxes *might* be lower. while Pulte might well be talking with the tax assessor -- i would give little credibility to a realtor in this situation. Pete | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mark, has anyone had a conversation with the tax assessor? Woodstock, do you have a copy of these "email conversations"? re: From Post above from Woodstock I recently had an email converation with the sales woman from Pulte sitting on "The Manors at South Mountain." I questioned her about the taxes on the properties. Initially she had said the taxes would be around $25k . This, on houses to be sold at over $900k a piece. Assuming the houses are assessed at 63% of sale price, they should be assessed at around $570k, with taxes of over $30k. WHen I asked her about this, I got this response: "The accessor has really been working with us. Please feel free to contact her, in fact she encourages it. Her name is Ellen and her # is (973)378-7715 Ext 7729. Yeas she is bringing them in under $500,000." | ||
| woodstock Citizen Username: Woodstock Post Number: 493 Registered: 9-2002 |
MHD, Actually, I don't fault Pulte at all for this. If they can get lower taxes for their buyers, more power to them. I'm disgusted that the town assessor might be giving them the impression that they are getting a special break on the taxes. As far as the prices, yes. The BASE price on the modesl they're proposing for the single family homes is $886,000. This price is likely to go over a million when all is said and done. As for the empty nesters, someone on my block moved "down" to a 3500 s.f. house (totoally customized inside). They must have paid much more overall than we did for our home, but since none of the interior sutff seems to matter (other than # of bedrooms and bathrooms), their assessment is MUCH less than mine. Mr. Rosner, I can't speak for Pulte here, but they are generally pretty good at gaging the market and pricing houses. And given the details of the hosues and omparables in other towns that I've seen, the prices are not out of line. My concern is this: Pulte believes they are going to sell the houses in the $900k+ range. They also believe that they are going to have taxes of around $25k. Someone had to have given them that impression. The quote I posted was directly from the saleswoman from Pulte, copied and pasted from an email she sent me. That's what they are telling the people that are looking to buy the houses. I must apoligize for now. I realize I should have spoken with Ms. Malgieri before posting. But I was so enraged by the thought that a builder would get some kind of special deal, that I posted without getting all the facts first. I am planning to speak with the assessor today to see what's going on (if possible). I'll let everyone know what I find out. Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him | ||
| vermontgolfer Citizen Username: Vermontgolfer Post Number: 236 Registered: 12-2002 |
Woodstock, Congratulations on the new addition. Does this mean you're no longer running for office?  An interesting thread you've started here. Can't wait for things to develop. | ||
| doublea Citizen Username: Doublea Post Number: 369 Registered: 3-2003 |
I just received a response from John Gross. The assessment percentage for 2004 is 55.46%. He says that the assessments for the Pulte homes won't be known until the units are sold. | ||
| woodstock Citizen Username: Woodstock Post Number: 494 Registered: 9-2002 |
Pete, The 900K price is from their sales material, prior to any upgrades. With upgrades, the houses are very likely to go for over a million. So all the upgrades are not counted in the base price that the builder reports to the town. I think it would be tough for them to report a sale price lower than what they're listing the base house at. Howard, I have each email (there are only a few). I just want to find out where the saleswoman got the impression that the assessor was "working" with them. To me, that smacks of favoritism, which doesn't sound like the assesor Mr. Rosner describes. Part of me hopes I'm wrong. because I like to think the process is fair. But part of me hopes it's true. More ammo for an appeal. Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him | ||
| woodstock Citizen Username: Woodstock Post Number: 495 Registered: 9-2002 |
doublea, I'm glad to know the town think my house can sell for over $725k next year. Unfortunately, no broker will show it because the taxes are so out of line with the others in town. I guess the formula for assessments doesn't take into account the impact that the taxes have on the sale price of the house. VG, Flections are a while away. Who know who will run. Maybe I'll team up with Washashore and MHD, and cover all the bases in town! Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 815 Registered: 4-2002 |
Woodstock: Feel free to call me Mark. Part of the confusion might be that the single family homes are expected to sell for 900K vs. the other homes (ask MHD what they are being called, I can't remember) will probably sell for less. | ||
| doublea Citizen Username: Doublea Post Number: 370 Registered: 3-2003 |
I hesitate to mention a revaluation because it always starts a lot of posts, which is understandable. South Orange has not had a revaluation since 1991. We now have an assessment percentage of 55%. The Village tax assessor knows that we should have a revaluation. The longer we wait, the worse it gets. Then you end up with a situation like Newark or Maplewood. I have a house in Monmouth County and I've had four revaluations since 1987. Other than the 1987 revaluation, which took place at the peak, all the revaluations have gone reasonably smooth, and the Monmouth County Board of Taxation makes sure revaluations take place on a regular basis to to avoid the gigantic fluctuations which would otherwise take place. The Village tax assessor knows that we should have a revaluation. | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 575 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mark, Actually, according to Pulte's website: "The Manors at South Mountain will be an eclectic group of town homes offering luxury, in a prestigious neighborhood without the maintenance of a single-family home. The Manors at South Mountain will range in size from 3,900 – 4,500 square feet and will start in the $900’s. There will be 62 Manors and 7 single-family homes" I read this to mean the "manors" (i.e. duplexes/townhouses/multi-family units) with start in the $900's. That implies that the single family homes will be even more. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 817 Registered: 4-2002 |
doublea: As I have stated previously, I do not have a problem with doing a revaluation. I just would like a commitment to buy the software to adjust the reval numbers every two years. A reval may or may not help your situation, but we all know that there will be a lot of unhappy homeowners after a reval and they will be the most vocal. MHD: Thanks for posting the actual ad from Pulte. |
