| Author |
Message |
    
wharfrat
Citizen
Username: Wharfrat
Post Number: 876
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 5:02 am: |     |
Ok, sump pump experts, care to play a game of speculation?
My sump pump cycles frequently after days of heavy precipatation (not unexpectedly, since we live on a hill/terrace).
Periodically, I shudder to think what would happen if the pump failed/electricity went out if I wasn't home!
I've given alot of thought to the type of sump pump back-up system I'd like to install and have recently started to think about using the hill I live on to my advantage.
I am thinking about installing a down grade drain pipe from my sump well into a dry well that will be located at the bottom of my front yard.
The pipe from the sump well would be placed towards the top of the well. The slope/pitch from the house to the front yard is about four feet.
Can you guys think of any drawbacks to this plan? |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4068
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 5:21 am: | |
Unless you are planning to do the work yourself, and digging a large hote is heavy labor, it would be cheaper to buy a battery backup system or even one of the new water powered backup systems. You would also have to have some idea on how well your land "percs" and the amount of water entering the dry well.
Personally, I would think about regrading around your house and making sure the leaders drain well away from the foundation.
My personal opinion is that a french drain and sump pump system is only a partial solution for wet basements since it "cures" the symptoms, not the cause.
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Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 144
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 4:48 pm: | |
You're talking about installing an overflow drain from your sump receiver to the outside of your home, right?
I'll do you one better, if that's an option why have a pump at all. Why not just direct all of the water under the house to a pipe out to the street and have it drain by gravity?
Master_Plvmber
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marken
Citizen
Username: Marken
Post Number: 85
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 5:08 pm: | |
MP -- I like your idea b/c we have a similar problem. How do we accomplish what you suggest? |
Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 145
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 7:23 pm: | |
I don't know. I've never tried it. It just seems to me that if you've got the height difference between inside and outside, it should work fine.
The only problem I forsee is a way to arrange the piping to keep animals or bugs from entering the home from the pipe (the pipe would have to be kind of large, at least 3").
Hmm, I don't see why a horizontal check valve wouldn't work.
Master_Plvmber
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Dr. Strangelove
Citizen
Username: Dr_strangelove
Post Number: 21
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:45 pm: | |
I also figured that my sump pump would fail because of a power outage just when it was needed the most. I was not impressed with the battery backups available. They claim that they will give a few hours of power, but the 1/3 HP motor on the pump does draw a lot of juice, and I am aware that a outage could last more than a few hours, so I made my own backup system with 2 deep cycle 12 volt batteries, a trickle charger, a relay and an inverter. I ran the pump for two days of constant use off the backup with no problem just to test it. Similar DIY battery backups can be found here:
http://www.easttnreefclub.com/battery.html
http://jean.yen.tripod.com/id51.htm
Then I got to thinking about making another one for the fridge...and another for the lights..etc, and just gave up with the battery backup idea entirely and just hardwired a pair of inverters (one to each live buss) to my electrical panel. Now I can backfeed power and run the whole house off my car.
Yeah, I know that it probably isn't very efficent, but I figure that I would only need to use this system a couple of days a year, and the whole thing cost less than $100 to put together, a lot less than a generator and with no maintenence needed. It's a simple system, but I haven't found anything like it on the web to link to, but if you email me at rjfarr@hotmail.com I can give you instructions on how to put it together. |
NRL
Citizen
Username: Nrl
Post Number: 382
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 11:35 pm: | |
Stranglove,
I would think you would have wiring code issues there. You hardwired $35.00 inverters from Sams club to your main fuse box? By running your cars engine you can power your whole house or just a few items?
Also, are you using the cars cig lighter or connecting straight to the battery terminals to get the power? |
Dr. Strangelove
Citizen
Username: Dr_strangelove
Post Number: 22
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 9:14 am: | |
I guess that you are right about the code. So, lets change the design a bit. Pop in a couple of dedicated circuts (again, one to each buss) and run them each to a single outlet. Make a pair of double male extension cords, and just plug the inverters in. Voila, no hardwiring, no code porblems.
I am using a pair of 400/800 modified sine wave inverters that I bought on eBay for about $20 each. That seems to be able to give me sufficiant juice to run the sump pump, fridge, the boiler and a few lights. I could easily install larger inverters but 1) I would have to use larger breakers and larger gauge wiring. To keep things simple I stayed with 15 amp/14 gauge. And 2) I wanted the car to run quietly at idle. Larger inverters could draw more before tripping and could make the engine race.
I am using a pair good quality jumper cables off the cars battery to the inverters.
If anybody is planning to do this, just remember to shut off the service disconnect when it is in use, because you don't want to backfeed power out of your house. It would be an unwelcome suprise to the guy whose fixing the outage. |
Ken Zeidner
Citizen
Username: Blackflag
Post Number: 18
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 2:06 pm: | |
Since I did'nt get much response when I started my own sump pump thread, he're goes:
I am also interested in getting battery powered sump pumps to stand alongside the two primary pumps we have. For the love of G-d, can anyone recommend a good system (and someone to install them if installation is complicated. Thanks. |
NRL
Citizen
Username: Nrl
Post Number: 384
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 5:33 pm: | |
Ken,
The Basement guard dog at Homedepot seems to be very popular. Do a search on the net for others opinions of other systems.
Strangelove, Although I admire your innovativeness that setup sounds a bit scary. Ill stick with more conventional methods. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4079
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 6:23 pm: | |
Another good solution for those who don't trust battery backups, large drywells in their front year, water pressure or using their car to power their house (I think Dr. Strangeglove, or should I say Sbenois. is putting us on) and whatever is to buy a generator and have it wired into your electric system to kick in if the power goes out.
I suspect all of you wear both a belt and suspenders (braces for those with a clasical bend).  |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3382
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 7:27 pm: | |
The Dr. Strangelove system can work.
The connection to the main box would have to be installed to code and will need a break/make connection. That means when you make the connection to the inverter/car system, you break all connection to the power grid. When power comes back on, you flip a breaker that breaks the connection to the inverter system and makes the connection to the power grid.
You then have to size the house load to the battery and the charging system on the car. My Truck has a 100 Amp system, as and example.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic. |
tourne
Citizen
Username: Tourne
Post Number: 260
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 4:27 pm: | |
Why not just install a 5000 kilowatt hour per year solar electric system with a battery backup and sell excess juice back to the power company while getting a 70% rebate on the cost of the entire installed system from the State? |
tourne
Citizen
Username: Tourne
Post Number: 261
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 4:30 pm: | |
Oh, just something to think about concerning the R. Goldberg sump pump backup being discussed....who runs the car when you are on vacation/out of the house and the power fails? |
tourne
Citizen
Username: Tourne
Post Number: 262
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 4:33 pm: | |
One last thought on this....dig down on the outside of the house(carefully) and install a foundation drain out to grade like it should have been done in the first place? |
NRL
Citizen
Username: Nrl
Post Number: 387
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 6:59 pm: | |
Tourne, thats pretty funny.
Who is that R. Goldberg guy anyway. He gets a lot of bad press.
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