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pstob1126
Citizen
Username: Pstob1126
Post Number: 33
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 12:40 pm: |     |
Murphy's Law: Coldest day of the season and my Lennox hot air furnace decided to "take a vacation." With little time to get local recommendations, I chose Air Group, LLC of Whippany. They responded quite promptly and traced the difficulty to an induction motor that wasn't running. When the repairman removed the motor I happened to notice that a dried-out grommet fell out from the blower wheel. Clearly it was this errant object that caused the blower to jam.
The repairman insisted that the motor had to be replaced since, even if it worked now (with the object removed), it would certainly fail in very short order. To my chagrin, I was told that a replacement kit, which also included a "pressure sensor," would run me some $537. I felt I had no choice and made a (bad) decision to accept his advice. The total bill was $647.99 - with the additional $99 "diagnostic fee" and sales tax.
Post repair education: I've since learned (from Lennox and other sources) that the "thermally protected" motor is designed to automatically shut off if something blocks the movement of the blower wheel. Once corrected, I was informed, the motor should once again function just fine. So it seems that simply reinstalling the blower should have fully resolved the issue. To add insult to injury, I found the exact same replacement kit (motor assembly and pressure sensor) available at a retail price of $ 201.50.
Granted, I needed Air Group's expertise to identify the source of the problem and did appreciate their quick response. I'm willing to pay for that. But as a consumer I'm also entitled to honest and forthright repairs, not the overpriced oversell that I got. I certainly won't be calling them again and suggest that other MOLers consider an alternative to Air Group, LLC of Whippany. Meanwhile, I've written to the President and will post his response (if I get one).
Alas, I've really no one to blame but myself... after all "Caveat Emptor." But, for certain, I must caution others about Air Group's tactics.
Recommendations for other heating system contractors, anyone...
Class?
Anyone?
Buehler? 
Paul |
Richard O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Roconn
Post Number: 68
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 1:49 pm: | |
Great company (they installed my ac) Is Air Master of Fairfield. Talk to Tom.
Richard (ROC)
--Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic.--
--AIM: ROConn |
jrbell
Citizen
Username: Jrbell
Post Number: 31
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 4:33 pm: | |
We bought our house in September and it came with a 50+ year old Lenox furnace. The previous owner had a service contract with Meyer and Depew. Our pilot light went out right after we moved in and I didn't know how to relight it. I called them and they were very quick to respond on a Friday evening. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 1945
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 5:07 pm: | |
Hmmm. I hope this is a unique situation with Air Group, since they just installed our Central A/C two days ago. |
Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 150
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 5:37 pm: | |
Responding to this post may be the mistake of my career but I feel compelled.
First off, I don't know ANYONE at Air Group and to my knowledge, I don't personally know anyone who has used them for anything.
Second, my company does not service or install forced-air heating or air conditioning systems at all, ever.
Moving on, Air Group has come very highly recommended by several MOL posters in the past so they must be doing something right.
One thing they seem to be doing right is responding quickly to customer's calls. That scores high marks in my book. The second thing they may have done right was using their professional judgement not to take a chance that the motor or fan or whatever was permanently damaged and so they replaced it. Changing electric motors and fans in a forced air system is part of good maintenance anyway, I'm sure.
How would your post have read if the technician would have put your old motor back only to have it fail at a less opportune time -maybe on a colder day, or while you were away.
As far as the price goes, I don't know how HVAC contractors price these things but with plumbing, very often the expenses of labor and other overhead costs far exceed the price of materials used on a job.
I'm neither offering an excuse for anything they may have done wrong, nor am I convinced they've done anything wrong.
I'm simply saying it may be more money than you were willing to spend but a much better reason to post such a strong message as the one you did would be that they never showed or they screwed something up and you and your family stood freezing while they wouldn't return your calls.
Now, feel free to let me have it.
Master_Plvmber
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magmasystems
Citizen
Username: Magmasystems
Post Number: 167
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 6:16 pm: | |
I don't think that original poster's complaint was with the quality of the service. I think that he was (rightly) pissed off that they charged him $537 for a $201 retail part. The $99 diagnostic fee was for the labor.
I think that the poster may have been more satisifed if they charged $201 for the replacement part (ie: retail price) and $400 for the house call, diagnostic fee, and installation.
Marc
www.millburnweb.com
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peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 422
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 8:21 pm: | |
... if my math is right -- it was $537 installed! so that's $336 for labor and misc. seems rather high, yes. and charging a $99 fee on top of that seems a little over the top.
luckily i have not needed this kind of service in a few years -- my last bill was $280 to replace an expansion tank and valve on my boiler 2 years ago.
is this the kind of repair that might have been covered by the PSEG monthly repair plan? i don't have this -- but wonder whether it might not be a bad idea.
Pete |
pstob1126
Citizen
Username: Pstob1126
Post Number: 34
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 9, 2004 - 11:06 am: | |
Master Plvmber - Based on the sage advice you've posted in the past I appreciate your comments and certainly respect your opinion. (Though I would hardly agree that changing-out motors that are working just fine would be part of a maintenance plan.)
My complaint lies not in their response time (it was excellent) or their ability to remedy the situation. Nor am I complaining about the $99 diagnostic fee that I knew of in advance. What I do find objectionable, and unethical, is the fact that it was quite clear to the repairman that unblocking the blower wheel was all that was necessary to repair my system. If he had charged a repair fee (over and above the $99 diagnostic fee) for his half hour, that would have been acceptable to me as well. Instead, he took the opportunity to "sell" me something that was totally unnecessary, not to mention ridiculously marked-up at 166% over retail.
Thinking about it, were I the repair guy, I might have offered a reasonable compromise. Like: I'll just put the blower back in. If it craps out in the next month or so I'll come back and replace it at the originally quoted price ($537.78 plus tax) with no diagnostic fee. Sound reasonable?
The repairman should have known (and I suspect that he did) that the thermally-protected motor did not require replacement based on the blower wheel being jammed overnight. If he didn't, he should have asked someone back at his office. After all, that's what I learned through my post-repair research with Lennox and other sources. Too bad it was after he had left.
As I originally posted, I'm most peeved at myself for letting myself get hosed as badly as I did. Again, "Caveat Emptor" - Let the buyer beware. I'm hoping that this post might help others avoid becoming victims of such tactics in the future.
By the way, Master Plvmber, yours was the first company I called that morning, only to learn (sadly) that you don't handle hot air systems. May I ask what you or your technicians would have done under such circumstances?
Paul
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doublea
Citizen
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 387
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 9, 2004 - 11:44 am: | |
pst: Do you think it's worth contacting somebody in the office to discuss this problem. Maybe even send them a copy of this thread. They do a lot of work in the area and if they were wrong, it might be good pr for them to offer some remedy. I am a customer and have so far been very satisfied, but something like this does concern me a little. |
pstob1126
Citizen
Username: Pstob1126
Post Number: 35
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 9, 2004 - 1:13 pm: | |
Doublea - Couldn't agree more. I mailed a letter to the company president that same afternoon, worded very similar to my original post. I'll let everyone know how/if he responds.
Paul |
Richard O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Roconn
Post Number: 95
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 9:01 am: | |
Having read this I understand the original annoyance.
I am just not sure that it 'holds' water.
We (normal homeowners) have absolutely no idea what it costs to run these kinds of companies. (Thread drift starts now)
Here's a short version story.
Needed a new boiler
Got 3 estimates
Decided on the middle one (I just liked the guy and I didn't know about gateway yet)
ALSO DECIDED that I could save some money by getting rid of the old boiler myself which was fine with the plumber, he took out that part of the estimate.
Then I got carried away
Went to Palmer Plumbing and did a little research and left with a boiler in the back of my pickup (and the knowledge they would cut and thread pipe for me)
End result, after 2 days of hard work I had a new boiler installed at a substantial (over 2k) savings.
I later talked to my original plumber (he called to ask what I'd decided and I told him what I'd done) .. he came by and said I'd done a pretty good job, a couple of things his guys would have done differently but overall very well installed)
So I saved 2000 bucks on what was a 4500 dollar job. (that's almost half (wow))
However
I didn't have to pay the technician
I didn't have to maintain a fleet of trucks
I didn't have to maintain multiple phone lines
I didn't have to have liability coverage in the millions to protect me from accident
I didn't have to offer benefits to employees
I didn't have to buy a pipe threader for 2" steel pipe
(and for the record, gateway has now seen this install and had only a few comments about things I should have also done) (which having seen what I did they told me to do myself) (which I did)
Now, as to the replacing it not just re-assembling it .... depends on other factors we don't know. How old is the furnace? I might have personally replaced it even if I knew that it would reset and be 'fine' for a while
I mean...the way I think ... I have taken the whole d... thing apart now, if the new part is available now lets just be sure we don't have a future problem ... (I don't want to do this again) ...
I think there is legitimate annoyance that you might not have had another problem for years, but in doing what they did they have (right) given you some measure of confidence that you won't have problems for some time ... Peace of mind is worth something to me too.
There are always MANY other options to the one any professional will give, I tend to give the expert opinion more weight ... I don't think it was about the money I think it was (in their opinion) about doing it RIGHT.
Also, this just triggered in the back of my mind .... the 'other sources' you site ... ok Lennox has no direct interest, but another company may have said what they said so you consider them the next time ... I don't like to think this ... but if I could tell you that 'they did it right but they could have done it for less' then the next time around you might call me and thinking 'he's a good guy' means you won't be as likely to question what I tell you.
Just one of those annoying back of the head things.
Oh well, I've rambled long enough
Richard (ROC)
--Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic.--
--AIM: ROConn |
Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 161
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 7:56 pm: | |
I appreciate that you called Gateway first, pstob1126. Over the years my brother (partner) and I have taken the approach that there is no future in the "jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none" method. So it's true, we stick with hydronics.
As far as what my technicians would have done, I'll explain.
A few years ago, when we took the business over from our Dad, I saw one of those 20/20 shows where they rigged a dishwasher (jammed a spoon in it) not to work and called 5 repair companies in to have a look at it.
All of the companies did the same thing, told the customer they needed a new part and it would cost them what they considered to be a lot of money.
All of the companies sent a technician (not the first guy) with a new part the following day to replace the original, which was fine.
ONE company's technician actually removed the spoon before he took the fully functioning "bad" part out, knowing full well it was the cause of the "problem".
He then looked around for the customer to show them the spoon, but the customer wasn't around. So he proceeded to change the part he was sent there to change.
Out of five service companies, only one came close to doing the job ethically.
I was angry the 5 companies did what they did. My business is not the same as theirs but ALL trades suffer from this kind of stereotypical behavior.
On the other hand, I felt sorry for the one technician who knew what the right thing to do was but maybe felt pressure from his company’s long-standing policy that he was to shut up and do what he was told.
It is VERY important to me that my clients are serviced in an ethical manner and MY policy is we’re ALL on 20/20, ALL of the time.
I hired and fired 18 people in 2003. Not because I felt they weren’t good plumbers, but because I couldn’t trust them for one reason or another.
You develop a gut instinct for these things. I’m sure you know what I’m talking about. I can’t take a chance on being embarrassed out of business by an employee after my family has gone through so much keeping it’s reputation intact for so many years.
Still, we’re not cheap plumbers and we never will be. We know who our competition is and we don’t want to be any of them. We know what our expenses are and we MUST cover them or we will cease to be. How many of our neighbors were told by the Utility or plumbers with FULL-PAGE ads in the yellow pages boasting “24 hour emergency service!” that they couldn’t make it on Saturday night during the cold? We HAVE to be a serious company and serious companies take money to run. We have a very impressive list of clients. Some are celebrities, some are bricklayers.
All are crucial to our survival.
Aren't you glad you asked?
Enough about me, let’s get back to you.
It wouldn’t be fair to comment on the price you were charged for the work performed as I don’t know the contractor’s expenses.
What I do know is that thermal overload protection doesn’t always work and you’ll forget about that money you spent if the system performs well for years to come. If another problem should soon arise related to the work performed, then I would think you are entitled to something.
Good luck in the future.
MP
Master_Plvmber
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