| Author |
Message |
    
gemini
Citizen
Username: Gemini
Post Number: 261
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 9:45 am: |     |
Best thread yet. Even brought Harold out, and a comment from Dave. |
notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 871
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 4:52 pm: | |
virgilian: Alas, there were no modern domiciles to purchase around here when I was shopping 5 years ago. In fact, there are very few modern homes in M/SO at all. I'll have to make do with what I got. I bought a house that needed a lot of work because it was all I could afford, but also because I knew I'd want to give it a modern look.
Bring on the big, undivided windows! Bring on the bright white walls, the wide-plank floors, the glass brick partitions, the brushed aluminum fixtures and stainless steel appliances. Bring on the smooth, uncluttered lines, the solid colors, and the natural materials. And somebody please buy me an Eames "La Chaise":
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virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 219
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 4:54 pm: | |
Nice!
Invite me over some day.
I'll leave my colonial bonnet at home.
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Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2724
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 5:01 pm: | |
With a few modifications, any Maplewood home can be brought up-to-date:
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virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 220
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 5:06 pm: | |
But see how Mr. Gehry left all those original wood windows in the core--very well done.
Metal in the right place contrasts with the undiluted old stuff. He's pretty good. |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 221
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 5:37 pm: | |
Notehead--
Keep your eyes open in Newstead. Some originally detailed, modern-as-tomorrow, good-life Rat Pack/Reagan-ranchers w/ views can transport one to Palm Springs, Palos Verdes Estates or Pacific Palisades when the weather's right. Glamour. |
notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 875
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 7:15 pm: | |
Excellent, excellent. |
ML1
Citizen
Username: Ml1
Post Number: 1465
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 7:40 pm: | |
not bad Nohero, but not enough vinyl. |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 224
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 8:34 pm: | |
It's interesting, the image Nohero chose, because the good architect knew better than to "re-muddle."
There's a clear respect for the integrity of both the new and old parts. I don't really want my neighbors to do this to their houses, but in Santa Monica it's the larger landscape of schizophrenic building types in close proximity that makes this particular house contextually brilliant. If the architect had stripped the old parts, dumbed down the detail, the(to some heavyhanded) contrast would have been lost, the whole a nasty mush.
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virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 248
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 12:19 am: | |
"Vinyl emits polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) and dioxin, which according to the EPA is "one of the most toxic and environmentally stable tricyclic aromatic compounds of its structural class," meaning that it does not break down easily in the environment. Vinyl building products include windows, siding and flooring, PVC pipes, adhesives, and vinyl shower curtains. Vinyl windows and siding are exposed to direct sunlight, which increases their rate of dioxin gas emission."
source:
http://www.mindfully.org/Sustainability/Build-Green220ct02.htm
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virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 249
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 12:24 am: | |
"The PVC waste crisis
The world is facing a waste crisis from PVC. Short-life PVC products, disposed of within a few years, have caused serious PVC waste problems, especially when incinerated.
The average life span of the durable products -which make up more than half of PVC consumption - is around 34 years. Durable vinyl goods produced and sold since the 1960s - when the plastic boom began - are now just starting to enter the waste stream. We are only now seeing the first stages of an impending PVC waste mountain.
Graph of PVC currently in use and due to enter the waste stream
There are currently over 150 million tonnes of long-life PVC materials in existence globally, used mostly in the construction sector, which will constitute this waste mountain in coming decades. Taking into account the ongoing growth in production, by the year 2005 this amount will double and the world will have to deal with approximately 300 million tonnes of PVC starting to enter the waste stream. The amount of PVC waste arising in industrialised countries is already expected to grow faster than PVC production.
Of even more concern is the fact that the PVC industry is rapidly expanding in Latin America and Asia, so that eventually a growing waste mountain will be generated in these parts of the world.
In light of the large volume of long-life PVC products due to become waste in the coming decades, and the projected increase in PVC production, it becomes apparent that an international PVC phase-out is urgently required. Only this will put a halt to a growing, dangerous and intractable waste problem."
source:
http://archive.greenpeace.org/toxics/html/content/pvc3.html
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virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 250
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 12:27 am: | |
"PVC products are potentially extremely hazardous in the environment. Greenpeace is campaigning for a switch from PVC to alternative products in buildings, whilst the Swedish Parliament decided in 1995 to implement a complete phase out of PVC products. The Swedish Minister for the Environment recently said: 'It is no longer a question of if PVC should be phased out but how it shall be phased out.'
In particular PVC presents the following problems:
PVC is highly polluting in production: chlorine manufacture results in emissions of organochlorines and mercury, whilst PVC manufacturing means wastes contaminated with dioxins and other organochlorines.
Intermediate products, for example Vinyl Chloride Monomer, are highly toxic and carcinogenic, and even in countries with rigorous environmental controls, emissions into the environment occur.
Disposal of PVC by incineration creates dioxins,some of the most dangerous toxins known to man, other organochlorines and hydrogen chloride gas. PVC is the main source of dioxin pollution.
Disposal of PVC by landfill means leaching of toxic plasticisers and heavy metal stabilisers. PVC has low biodegradeability.
Recycling of post-consumer PVC is technically very difficult and is at present not a realistic possibility. The wide variety of different PVC formulations with different additives means that in reality recycling is impossible, although some limited 'downcycling' into lower grade material may be feasible. Any future recycling or downcycling technology would almost be unacceptable environmentally because of the almost inevitable emission of dioxins and other toxic compounds into the environment.
PVC is highly energy intensive in production in comparison with timber.
PVC derives in part from petrochemicals: present reserves of crude oil are estimated at present consumption at less than 40 years.
A wide range of toxic additives are required for PVC to give adequate performance, including heavy metal stabilisers, plasticisers and fungicides.
PVC frames are popularly promoted as 'maintenance free', but require regular cleaning to maintain their appearance and optimum performance. UV radiation from the sun causes degradation and eventual damage to PVC frames which become brittle and powdery.
Damage to uPVC frames is extremely difficult to repair, resulting in replacement where timber frames could simply be repaired.
Most uPVC frames are actually composites of PVC and steel, resulting in further complexity in disposal/recycling.
PVC products contain measurable quantities of dioxins, furans and PCBs: for some time after manufacture products offgas various chemical constituents and may release highly carginogenic Vinyl Chloride Monomer.
PVC products give off hydrogen chloride gas, dioxins and phosgene when burnt, adding to the hazard of household fires."
source:
http://www.greenbuildingstore.co.uk/eco-environ.php |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 251
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 12:28 am: | |
No wonder the windows are so cheap. What landfill would take the stuff? |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 252
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 12:39 am: | |
"Solid vinyl windows have been promoted for their durability, but studies done for the Canada Centre for Mineral and Energy Technology call into question some of those claims. The study Long Term Performance of Operating Windows Subjected to Motion Cycling found that air leakage through the vinyl casement windows increased 136% (significantly more than the aluminum and fiberglass windows tested, and somewhat more than the wood windows tested). "Visual inspection revealed that unreinforced PVC profiles are subjected to distortion," concluded the report, adding that this is caused by "the lack of rigidity and the high coefficient of linear expansion of sash members." Because of the construction of vinyl windows, strength is highly dependent on the extrusion design, and the Canadian study included only a few vinyl windows out of the hundreds that are produced.
Vinyl is projected to garner a growing share of the window market in coming years, according to AAMA. One of the reasons is reduced availability of the old-growth wood that has long been prized by wood window manufacturers. To date, most of the growth in vinyl window production has been at the expense of aluminum windows, but window manufacturers who have traditionally used wood are expected to turn to vinyl as well as other materials for replacing clear pine and fir. In fact, this is one of the building technology areas where we can expect to see the most change over the next ten years. Exactly what role vinyl plays in that transition will depend in part on how accepting users are of vinyl's environmental record."
source:
http://www.buildinggreen.com/features/pvc/pvc.cfm
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virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 258
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 12:31 pm: | |
"What substances can affect reproduction and reproductive development?
Among the major substances that are toxic to developing reproductive systems and that Canadians may encounter are:
Heavy metals such as lead, mercury, manganese, cadmium, arsenic
Organic solvents such as benzene, toluene, xylene, acetone, vinyl chloride, trichloroethylene, phenols, etc.
Persistent organic pollutants (POPs) such as PCBs, dioxins, DDT and other organochlorine pesticides
Other hormonally active agents including plasticizers such as phthalate esters
Pesticides of the organophosphate and carbamate type
How are children exposed to reproductive toxicants?
The routes of exposures to reproductive toxicants are broad and vary depending on the specific agent. Most of our harmful exposures to reproductive toxicants come through the diet, through food and water, although in some cases they can be inhaled via air. Of particular importance to children is that they may be exposed in the womb, during infancy via breast milk, and from consumer products that contain or harbour such contaminants. Parental exposures prior to conception that lead to genetic damage in gametes may cause effects in offspring.
What are the potential health effects from reproductive toxicants?
There is a spectrum of reproductive and developmental effects depending upon a) the dose, b) the timing of exposure, c) the site of action and d) the sex of the exposed individual (or fetus).
The range of potential reproductive effects includes
impaired fertility
fetal death
congenital abnormalities
malformations of reproductive structures
altered growth
altered (delayed or early) reproductive developmental milestones
Attention has been focused of late on the potential role of low levels of hormonally active agents that disrupt normal endocrine functioning. While most information comes from studies of the effects in animals, there is concern that humans are at risk because of widespread low-level exposure to such agents."
source:
http://www.cape.ca/children/repro.html |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2083
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 2:48 pm: | |
Virgo,
I appreciate the information on the toxic byproducts of PVC incineration. The next time I decide to burn down my house, I will evacuate my family before ignition. |
harold
Citizen
Username: Harold
Post Number: 173
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 5:19 pm: | |
Replaced all the rotted wooden-framed windows in our house with vinyl 15 years ago.
No problems, no leaks, good noise reduction, no maintenance, saved on heating bills, etc.....
Give it a rest already.
[and get a life]
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virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 260
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 9:24 pm: | |
Harold,
all the advantages you list could have also come from
1) fixing your original windows
2) buying well made wood windows
My argument is an aesthetic one; I just posted the stuff above to add some other reasons to why vinyl is so objectionable for those who don't care how their houses look.
As to having a life,
Being online is dissipating,
but I doubt I've invested more time in this thread than those mindlessly posting to threads with the appropriated political views they hear on their car radios and read in the paper and online.
I'm proud I've been able to draw your comment and ire about something, something more important than your embarrassment over having vinyl windows will allow you to admit.
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virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 261
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 9:27 pm: | |
tjohn:
the vinyl is continually oxidizing. A fire is a fast oxidization, so what you say makes sense: you might want to take your family away from your slowly oxidizing, pcb producing "house" fire or not. |
harold
Citizen
Username: Harold
Post Number: 174
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 10:20 pm: | |
Guess what? Not embarrassed about my windows....
embarrassed that you represent Maplewoodians as being as vain and shallow as they come...
tsk, tsk. |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 262
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 10:55 am: | |
I seem to represent few, given the greater number of people who disagree with me and seem put off.
I think I'm an exception, Harold, and not very representative. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2091
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 10:56 am: | |
Virgo,
So PVC is not degradable but is continuously oxidizing. Make up your mind, man, you can't have it both ways. |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 263
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 10:59 am: | |
ok, it degrades, slowly, as described in the postings above, releasing pcb's and dioxin.
I never said it wasn't degradable, did I?--vinyl degrades, like wood. It powders, cracks, like any plastic exposed to sun, water.
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virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 264
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 11:11 am: | |
People just leave the plastic blistering, off-gassing, fading, cracking, powering, yellowing, in its "no maintenance" splendor. It sure does degrade. The earlier installations of vinyl, for example in East Orange, are not looking so good. They were undertaken about 15 years before the crud became common in Maplewood. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2093
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 3:41 pm: | |
I personally find that weathered first generation aluminum and vinyl siding has a rather classic look to it. |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 265
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 5:32 pm: | |
Yes it does!
I agree with you tjohn. Orange in particular has streets with that first-wave-synthetics feel to them, windows and all. Something very consistant and place-defining.
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virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 266
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 5:34 pm: | |
Union also does. Areas have that comfortable "Roseanne" feeling.
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tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2098
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 7:22 am: | |
Virgo,
Do you play the clarinet? |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2637
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 1:37 pm: | |
I think Virgo plays the harpsicord and lute. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2106
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 2:56 pm: | |
Maybe. I was thinking of Squidward on Sponge Bob Squarepants. He plays the clarinet. |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 267
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 7:38 pm: | |
"Virgo:" akin in some way to the dubbing of Michael Jackson "Jacko?" The problem is that "Virgo" rhymes with "Pergo" and little else. Not a good fit. |
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