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JGTierney
Citizen
Username: Jtg7448
Post Number: 116
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 10:40 am: |     |
I admit, I've had a bad night.
We woke at 4am to the sound of dripping water in
our bedroom. We isolated it to the steam riser going up to the attic. My husband is out right now and we're going to make a plan.
We're assuming the pipe froze and burst. We were so tired we put a bucket down and went back to bed. We did turn the valve to the particular radiator off - and no more pouring water. I guess it doesn't have a chance to condense???
Any better suggestions?
I will not bother Master Plumber today, as he has been doing work for us anyway - we'll just add it to the list for the future.
BUT THE BIGGER PROBLEM. So husband probes the wet area with a screwdriver, peels away some wet gyp, some lath - and then all this little brown pebble like stuff is exposed.
YIKES! Vermiculite - Zonolite. Asbestos. We go to the attic with flashlights, lift up some other stuff and it is everywhere. (We've only been in the house5 months)
Well of course it is! It was the insulation of choice through the 1960's for attics.
A little 5am research:
In a recent memo to the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health, assistant U.S. surgeon general, Dr. Hugh Sloan of the U.S. Public Health Service, has warned that Asbestos-contaminated vermiculite insulation in millions of homes across the country poses a "substantial health risk'' to anyone who works in the houses' attics. "Internal company documentation and recent testing of residential insulation material reveals that even minimal handling by workers or residents poses a substantial health risk,'' says Sloan. He goes on to say that while recent studies show that even casual handling of the insulation can expose workers or homeowners to 150 times the asbestos level considered safe under federal regulations, the risk to homeowners would be small if they leave the insulation alone. "My sense is that homeowners themselves, if the insulation remains undisturbed, shouldn't have any worry,"
Insulation made of vermiculite was sold under the brand name Zonolite, and was sold as a product for attic insulation and marketed until the mid 1980's. Vermiculite from Grace's mine at Libby, Mont., was sold for use in garden products, fireproofing, cement mixtures and more than a dozen other consumer products. The bulk of the ore was heated until it expanded like popcorn. Then marketed as Zonolite insulation, it was stuffed between rafters and inside walls in millions of homes from coast to coast. Nobody is sure how many homes contain Zonolite. Estimates range between 2.5 million and 16 million.
OK - so who else has this? I know we're not alone. Are you concerned? Am I over reacting?
One solution - just leave it there.
But when pipes burst you are forced to deal with it....what now?
HELP.
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tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2058
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:00 am: | |
First, I find it interesting that the source was a leaking steam riser. It is hard for me to imagine circumstances under which a steam line would freeze and crack the pipes. However, the connection of the riser to the radiator (in your attic?) is leaky, maybe that is the source of the leak. It could also be that the longer heating cycles during this cold snap may have increased the amount of condensate leaking out of this radiator to the point where you noticed it. So, maybe you just need to replace the shut-off valve.
Now, on to asbestos. Asbestos is harmless unless ingested. If ingested, only particles of a certain size are really dangerous. So, if you have to clean up some of the stuff, don't raise any dust. You can moisten it a bit with a plant sprayer. I would imagine that hair spray would also bind loose particles since it is sticky.
Interestingly enough, nobody has established safe or unsafe levels of asbestos. Moreover, for all of the billsion spent in residential asbestos abatement, it cannot be demonstrated that a single cancer was prevented. Almost all of the asbestos-caused disease in this country has occurred among people working with asbsestos-containing materials. So, exercise care with asbestos containing materials, but don't lose perspective. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4260
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:04 am: | |
It would be extremely unlikely that a stream riser would freeze and burst, especially on a night when the temperature was around 5 degrees, the pipes never fill up with water. Most likely the valve stem has to be repacked or the nut tightened where the radiator meets the valve.
Are you sure you don't have rockwool insulation? This was very common around here, but by the 60s may have been supplemented by other products. Have the insulation tested if it is a concern to you. |
Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 155
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:07 am: | |
JGTierney, I doubt you have a broken steam pipe as well. More likely, you have a flooded radiator. It's going to take some looking into.
Don't worry about bothering us today. We have three crews working out there that are prepared for the worst.
Master_Plvmber
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JGTierney
Citizen
Username: Jtg7448
Post Number: 117
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:15 am: | |
We're 'assuming' that is what it is...
There are no other pipes anywhere in the area - only steam lines.
There was NO water in the attic by the radiator.
So we were thinking it is elsewhere on the line (?)
Today we will explore further and see what is to be seen. We weren't that motivated at 4am
I asked about the asbestos, because I just wanted to see if others have a)found it, b) it could alter the path of our little exploration.
We already done a little self-asbestos abatement on a few pipes - and I wasn't caught up in that...
The more I'm reading this morning about vermiculite in particular the more I'm realizing that opinions vary.
But boy, we've got +/- 450 SF of it!
And I DO think this should have been mentioned in oour home inspection. I'm not sure what bothers me more - the inspector not mentioning it, or the possibility he didn't see it?
Ah, the joys of homeowning are endless!
Thanks for your reply. |
JGTierney
Citizen
Username: Jtg7448
Post Number: 118
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:20 am: | |
Dave,
Thanks - as long as the leaking has stopped I think it can wait.
We're sort of 'beyond' at this point.
Enjoy what is left of your weekend - tomorrow is another day.
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JGTierney
Citizen
Username: Jtg7448
Post Number: 119
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:23 am: | |
We had rock wool in our 1/2 bath - but this is different.
Vermiculite is pebble like, but it's tell tale sign is that the pebbles are accordian shaped.
And this is the stuff in our attic.
We first worried about it when we uncovered the rock wool - this is decidedly different |
jeffl
Citizen
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 285
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 8:56 pm: | |
We discovered vermiculite in our attic and did some investigating. Very little vermiculite actually has asbestos in it. We had ours tested and it was fine. There was a lab in Union that did it for something like $50. Don't jump the gun until you know for sure. You're probably fine. |
bets
Citizen
Username: Bets
Post Number: 459
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 10:00 pm: | |
http://www.vermiculite.net
http://www.vermiculite.org/
http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/verm.html
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/vermiculite/
If it's used in potting soil today, I wouldn't worry too much about it. |
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