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Dave
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6329
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Thursday, February 5, 2004 - 9:58 pm: | 
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It was a smiple question asked out of simple curiousity. If someone knows, it would be ok to answer. You will note I'm not requesting they not be built. However, I think we need to push SHU to be more generous in their financial contribution to the village and this would have been a good opportunity to bargain a bit. |
Eric DeVaris
Citizen
Username: Eric_devaris
Post Number: 50
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 6, 2004 - 2:08 pm: |
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Why is it that in our little Village, NIMBY has become such an often used attribute with negative connotations? In a small area like ours, we all have one single backyard: South Orange. When a problem develops in one neighborhood shouldn't we address it as if it was in our own neighborhood? We are so small that a problem in that neighborhood is bound to affect other neighborhoods, directly or indirectly.
Isn't it natural that when a problem arises the first that would be aware of it would be the immediate neighbors? They would be the first to raise the alarm for the rest of the Village. Shouldn't we, the rest of the Village, instead of labeling them NIMBYs and ignore or put down their concerns, embrace them as neighbors, thank them for their alertness, evaluate the validity of their concerns as if they were ours, and when our help is needed offer it? Shouldn't we expect the same treatment from our neighbors when we have a problem in our own neighborhood? Shouldn't problems bring us torether to solve them, rather than divide us into NIMBYs? Or am I too naive, in a dreamland?
A divided population of the Village cannot benefit the Villagers, only those few who want to impose their will and take advantage of the division.
Let's wisen up. Let's all be NIMBYs, and have South Orange as our backyard.
Whatever happens with the dugouts will affect everybody's visual environment, real estate values, children's enjoyment, safe enjoyment of the parks. The BoT has already decided for us that the dugouts will be good for the Village, without using them as leverage for better monetary contributions from SHU in exchange. What's done, is done. Now let's be vigilant on the kind of dugouts we get, and join those who, NIMBYs or not, are involved in the surveillance of their design.
But, for heavens sake, please, let's stop this NIMBY labeling and work together as the one small Village that we are.
Eric |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 953
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 6, 2004 - 2:43 pm: |
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Eric, Dave: You both keep forgetting one very important fact. It was the desire of most of the baseball coaches in the little league program that were in favor of the dugouts. In fact, SHU will only be using the dugouts from March till May, while our children will be using them from March till November.
SHU is paying the full costs of the dugouts that are going to be used mostly by the village. They also assist in maintenance of the field.
Are you suggesting that we turn down a gift that benefits our children and baseball program? I have never heard of turning down a gift in hopes of getting a better gift.
Maybe SHU should contibute more. Legally they don't have to pay taxes. We have been working with them and meeting with them to try and work out ways that they can contribute more (not just financially). This gift is another sign that relations are improving and some people are suggesting that we should not accept the gift with the hope of getting more.
Sounds a little greedy and short-sighted to me.
Dave: SHU's name is not going up on the dugouts.
Eric: The decision might have been made by the BOT but was done so at the reccomendation of those who have been involved in the village recreation programs and the recreation department head. Please don't make it sound like it was done without input from others.
This has become a NIMBY issue because some of the protestors suggested putting the dugouts at other fields (including waterlands and Farrell Field) as if this field was their private domain. It is one thing to say you do not want any structures put up on a ballfield and quite another to suggest putting them up on a different field - in someone else's neighborhood.
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Dave
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6339
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Friday, February 6, 2004 - 2:59 pm: |
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Mark,
Thanks for answering. I think if handled right and maintained the dugouts could be a win for everyone.
I also agree with Eric that the NIMBY is really tiresome and becomes an excuse for ingoring real concerns people have about the project. It looks like those concerns are being addressed and I hope the dugouts are well designed and don't become eyesores or a pile of rubble from cars that seem to end up crashing there at least once a year. My sense is that someone will end up dead instead of merely pushing through a fence. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 954
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 6, 2004 - 3:16 pm: |
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I have a copy of the plans that the task force put together. Anyone will be able to view them Mon. night. I think they look really nice. Much better than I ever hoped for.
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Howard Levison
Moderator
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 53
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 6, 2004 - 4:05 pm: |
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It would be great if our WEBMaster could scan them onto the WEB. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 955
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 6, 2004 - 4:11 pm: |
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I will try to have the "winning " design scanned in next week.
Dave: I tried to send you a private email and it bounced back.
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just me fromsouthorange
Citizen
Username: Jmfromsorange
Post Number: 65
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 6, 2004 - 9:05 pm: |
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to mrosner-
i'm not saying restrooms are needed at meadowlands, but maybe a portapottie would be nice at some of the other parks, such as farrell field.
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just me fromsouthorange
Citizen
Username: Jmfromsorange
Post Number: 66
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 6, 2004 - 9:09 pm: |
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to mrosner-
did you know one of those 'volunteer coaches' are one of the most outspoken people AGAINST the dugouts? there's a big old picture of george in today's star ledger. |
just me fromsouthorange
Citizen
Username: Jmfromsorange
Post Number: 67
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 6, 2004 - 10:40 pm: |
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SoOrLady
NIMBY exactly! same with most everything that goes on in south orange / maplewood. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 957
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 7, 2004 - 2:27 pm: |
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Just me: There has been a portable at both Farrell Field and near the M3 field during the season.
I know some of the coaches are not in favor OR do not care about the dugouts. As I stated, most seem to be in favor.
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SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 360
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 7, 2004 - 7:40 pm: |
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just me - I have to retract my NIMBY statement - I think people (like Dave) were concerned that the dugouts were unsightly and a probable invitation to unpleasant activities in their neighborhood. Both valid concerns. I also believe that these concerns have been heard. We'll see on Monday - hopefully things will be settled and the kids will have the dugouts by the time little league rolls around. |
just me fromsouthorange
Citizen
Username: Jmfromsorange
Post Number: 72
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 8, 2004 - 8:04 pm: |
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mrosner-
thanks for the infor about the portapotties at farell field. my nephews played baseball the past two summers, we didn't notice them. we'll make sure to look closer this year.
i think the dugouts are a good idea; but don't understand why it has to be acessable. |
just me fromsouthorange
Citizen
Username: Jmfromsorange
Post Number: 73
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 8, 2004 - 8:17 pm: |
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thanks solady.
i think i'm going to go to the meeting tomorrow. i don't know how many people from this remember i don't think there is going to be a problem with kids hanging out there just because there are dugouts. they don't seem to hang out there now, or do they?
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arizona
Citizen
Username: Arizona
Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 9, 2004 - 6:09 pm: |
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Better make sure no blasting is necessary for dugout construction...just kidding |
just me fromsouthorange
Citizen
Username: Jmfromsorange
Post Number: 78
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 9, 2004 - 9:26 pm: |
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arizona-
lol about the blasting for the dugouts! |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 367
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 9:00 am: |
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I forgot to tune in last night... what happened at the meeting? Did they come up with an acceptable design? |
Dave
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6357
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 9:51 am: |
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I think it's a Frank Lloyd Wright dugout. It will cost nothing to build and millions to maintain.  |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 967
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 10:18 am: |
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Jonathan Felsman who is a local architect came up with a design that was acceptable to almost everyone. I am waiting to get a revised sketch and will then see if we can put it on the website.
The feature that seperated this design from the original is that it is made from wood, bricks and other material instead of just cinderblock. Also there are sliding panels that can be kept open so people can see through the structures.
The parks do cost millions to maintain, but the dugouts do not change the overall cost of maintaining the parks.
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NCJanow(akaLibraryLady)
Citizen
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 1214
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 7:18 am: |
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Ok, Everyone happy now?
Seton Hall and neighbors compromise on dugouts
Wednesday, February 11, 2004
BY TYRONE RICHARDON
Associated Press
The battle of the Seton Hall dugouts -- destined for a South Orange park -- appears to have ended in a compromise in what's been dubbed a "town and gown" dispute.
Seton Hall University and a design committee comprised of village residents on Monday night agreed to an alternative design to concrete structures that some described as bunker-like and a blight to the neighborhood and Meadowlands Park.
"I am glad that the board has gone along with the design committee recommendation," said resident Charles Paikert. "However, the devil is in the details, and it's good that Seton Hall upholds its obligation and upholds these recommendations."
The 8-page report, which details collegiate requirements for the dugouts and architect renderings, was presented to village trustees Monday night after a Jan. 30 meeting with Seton Hall officials to discuss the design plans.
In October, South Orange village trustees approved the gift from Seton Hall to build two dugouts at Meadowlands Field, home to some village Little League and for 8 years the home of the Seton Hall Pirates women's softball team.
On Jan. 23, the agenda to affirm the gift was tabled because of resident concerns. That night, village trustees selected four residents to work with Seton Hall on the design plans and seek alternatives.
The option settled on is a "picnic arbor design" consisting of a wooden panel garage door design that can be closed and opened when not in use to ensure security and visibility.
Also in the outlined design was a flagstone bedding and planting mask to surround the rear of the dugouts, vs. the chain-linked fence used in the earlier design.
Village Administrator John O. Gross assured residents that the cost -- from $60,000 to $70,000 -- would be paid by Seton Hall, since it is the university's gift to the village to pay for the construction of the dugouts.
Details still to be worked out are the plywood designs and structure colors.
Jonathan Felsman, an architect and village resident, and the three other members of the design committee agreed to work closely with Seton Hall.
The designs, he said, are only the starting point.
"The next step is to go over the design and chose materials and build it." Felsman said.
NCJ aka LibraryLady
On a coffee break..or something like it.
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