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M. Scott
Citizen
Username: Villageidiot
Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 11:37 am: | 
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I moved this response over from the S.O. Grille Thread because It is more of it's own topic.
Mr. Rosner,
Forgive the sarcasim, its just difficult to deal with this issue and a daily basis when you live in the center of it and see the actual little frontline progress.
I did imply that the eviction was simply that "a rumor" through the gossip I hear downtown. Also, this is a message board and I consider it to be for gossip and items of such, considering we are all posting semi-anonymously(WITH YOUR EXCEPTION AND I APPLAUD YOU AND THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE BOT WHO INVOLVE THEMSELVES IN THIS FORUM).
I just find it hard to believe that with the proliferation of underage drinking in off campus residences that anyone from my complex has never been evicted with the number of times the police are there.
I am an iggnorant resident who sees a good law in one township, that could be taken to used in this town. From observing what occurs at my shore house I believe that they could be an option...I stated "a suggestion" The town employs a lawyer for this I assume could examine that or may have already done so. However, the best laws out there are borrowed and shared from other towns and quality of life is perfected at some shore towns. The problems are similar in nature.
I have contacted the police department and we do not have an underage drinking ordinance for Prv't Property. Can we develope one? Can we enforce fire code violations at large fraternity parties? DO WE EVEN TRY TO? I know the police try to deal with the problems because they are always in and around the complex I live, but its the same thing a warning or 1 noise ticket.
I utilize the SHU gym on a regular basis, being that I am an alumni of the school, and I still speak with a lot of students, and the overwhelming opinion of students I speak with regarding the police is they will break parties up if they are called, maybe issue some tickets, however, never really go to far because they say the same thing to students...WE DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO DEAL WITH YOU. After a few parties, the students are smart enough to know to say "I don't live here" and walk away without a ticket, or thats what my nieghbors seem to do now. I negotiated an agreement between my nieghbors and myself regarding their conduct and I call them first before I call the police, in exchange they are quiet for about ten minutes before I have to call again.
You are correct I do not know what the BOT has already done aside from several meetings with SHU community, I had attended one meeting, but it was more of a complaint session. But being a product of SHU I already see through their administration and whatever yes's they provide the village. If it doesn't involve an alumni donation or your not a division one athlete the University has proven to me that your opinion or issue is meaningless.
Why the ordinances can not be developed is unfortanate, and actually clarification on that would be interesting to me...because they do work well down in Monmouth County.
This issue shouldn't be about negotiating good behavior from off campus students. It is about NOISE, LOITERING, UNDERAGE DRINKING, LARGE PARTIES, AND THE RESIDENTS QUALITY OF LIFE.
PLEASE, OPEN UP THE PIGGY BANK THIS THURSDAY, AND PUT AN EXTRA COUPLE OF POLICE OFFICERS OUT AND SHUT DOWN A FEW PARTIES.
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doublea
Citizen
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 396
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 12:11 pm: |
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For informational purposes, the so-called animal house ordinance is explained as follows. The purpose of the ordinance is to place some responsibility on the landlord so that he or she just can't rent out to groups and absolve himself or herself of their actions, which effect the peace and quiet of the neighbors and effects the quality of life in a neighborhood or town.
Mark Rosner says it was meant to apply only to shore towns. This is not correct. Belmar was the first town to adopt such and ordinance, but it was subsequently adopted by towns such as Long Branch and Ocean Township (Monmouth County) which have a very large student rental problem.
About one and one-half years ago the Belmar animal house ordinance was upheld by the N.J. Supreme Court.
The Animal House ordinance provides that if within a 12 month period there have been two convictions on a noise complaint or a disturbing the peace complaint, the landlord must post a bond ranging from $500-5000 for a 4 year period. If there are any further convictions within that time period, the landlord starts forfeiting on the bond, depending on the severity of the offenses.
As I have noted, this type of ordinance has been adopted by several towns close to Monmouth University. I have had a very close relationship with the adoption of such an ordinance in my community. I have listened to some discussions by the BOT about such an ordinance, and my conclusion is that if you want to find a reason why something wouldn't work you always can. The fact remains that an animal house ordinance has been adopted by other communities effected by college rentals and to say it was meant only for shore towns just doesn't work.
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M. Scott
Citizen
Username: Villageidiot
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 12:31 pm: |
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Thank you for the clarification. Belmar is where my shore house is and I have seen it first hand. Thier police do not mess around when it comes to Quality of Life issues.
They also require of all landlords leasing a property for 12months or less to post the Borough issued Cert. of H near the outer entry way door and provide the names of all adults who are residing within the residence. Leasees are required to provide it upon request from government official (code enforcement, fire, or police) to show who is contractually responsible for the property. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 885
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 12:41 pm: |
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doublea, Mscott: There are reasons why that ordinance does not neccessarily apply in the situation we have in S. Orange. If you want the full legal explanation please come to the next legal committee meeting (02/02/04 in the evening). I am not trying to be evasive or not answer, but I think it is best to have the dialogue with the village attorney. There will be other questions that will come up during the discussion.
The ordinance you refer to and others have been discussed in great detail more than once and goes back several years.
You can also come to the public safety meeting (same night) and hear from the police director what has been done and what is working and what is not working.
After coming to one or both of those meetings then maybe we can have a more meaningful dialogue.
You should both also know that the meetings with residents were very well attended and many of the questions raised above were discussed at length. Representatives from SHU were at the meetings as were some students.
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doublea
Citizen
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 397
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 3:15 pm: |
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My impression is that the Village is working diligently with the residents to alleviate what, in any community which houses college students, is a very difficult situation. As an interesting side-bar, this past Sept. when Monmouth University students came back to school, one of the female students renting next to a friend of
mine happened to be from South Orange. When my friend mentioned that I lived in South Orange,the student said "we don't have this problem in South Orange." |
doublea
Citizen
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 398
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 3:20 pm: |
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Oh, I forgot. That house has been visited by the police.  |
Waldo
Citizen
Username: Discowaldo
Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 11:38 pm: |
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is the legal committee meeting open to all residents of South Orange? |
Allan J Rosen
Citizen
Username: Allanrosen
Post Number: 54
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 10:52 am: |
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The legal committee,like all committees, is open to all residents and public, except during a portion if it has to go into closed session under the sunshine law allowances. |
Waldo
Citizen
Username: Discowaldo
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 11:12 am: |
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Mr. Rosen: Thanx for the info |
patjoyce
Citizen
Username: Patjoyce
Post Number: 47
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 3:40 pm: |
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The only way to curb the problem is to get the landlord to pay attention. In September I provided to our legal counsel a case which I believe supports the contention that under certain circumstances a landlord can be punished for the actions of those to whom he rents. I will provide this information to Allan rosen prior to the next Public Safety meeting to see if we can get some action prior to the Spring party season.
Patrick |
M. Scott
Citizen
Username: Villageidiot
Post Number: 20
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 9:34 am: |
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The Students are back now, However, it is so cold lately they have not been very much of a hassal as typically they are after coming back after a break. |
Marc
Citizen
Username: Bautisma
Post Number: 67
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 9:41 am: |
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M. Scott,
Out of curiosity did you ever drink while you were underage at SHU? |
M. Scott
Citizen
Username: Villageidiot
Post Number: 22
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 9:56 am: |
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Not really, I worked full time while I attended SHU. My parents were too rich for free money, but too poor to pay for it.
Yes I admit I drank underage on occasion, and not nearly as much as I wanted to. However, I can honestly say, I was respectful and had some common sense. I wasn't wondering South Orange with a plastic party cup, yelling at gas lamps(I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN).
I stayed on campus. Besides my dad was a cop and he would have pulled me out of school if I was ever a problem or caused one that got on record.
When I lived off campus I was 22 and I was decent neighbor. We never had large parties, but I spoke with my neighbors regularly so when we did have people over they were aware and they knew they could approach my wife or myself, and still can. |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 569
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 9:58 am: |
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Those Gas Lamps do get cocky sometimes, good to see someone is putting them in their place. |
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