| Author |
Message |
    
marken
Citizen
Username: Marken
Post Number: 89
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 12:16 pm: |     |
Ok, so I need some help / advice / solutions to our continuing dilemma, and I will buy a beer or two -- for the person(s) who provides the fix.
Here's the problem:
Two noisy (ticking, popping, clicking) radiators and their respective supply pipes for a gas fired steam heat system.
It only happens about 15-20 minutes after the boiler starts. Otherwise, the entire system is fairly quiet. (So I'm guessing water hammer)
Not all radiators are noisy, only the 2 in the bedroom.
But when the system starts at 3AM, we wake up .... oh, but we're warm.
It's our first winter in this house, and we have a new boiler so I don't know if this problem always existed.
Here's what I've already done, which has greatly improved the efficiency of the system, and reduced most of the banging & ticking elsewhere:
- drained the boiler and replaced the water to remove sinking crud
- I drain & refill a little bit each week
- skimmed the boiler to remove floating crud
- replaced the old radiator air vents
- pitched the radiators a bit more
- insulated (w/fiberglass) the steam pipes in the basement
- checked the pipe pitch in the basement -- seems OK
Please post your questions, suggestions, and ideas ... we're desperate for a good night's sleep. |
wharfrat
Citizen
Username: Wharfrat
Post Number: 918
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 12:22 pm: | |
Two noisy (ticking, popping, clicking) radiators and their respective supply pipes for a gas fired steam heat system.
Number of questions-
Is the noise hammering, or more like a screwdriver banging on the pipe or radiator?
- Are valves attached to radiator open all the way?
- Are the sounds coming from the radiator itself, or does it seem to eminate from the pipes attached?
|
marken
Citizen
Username: Marken
Post Number: 90
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 2:17 pm: | |
Noise description: Tap a CD jewel box on a wooden table -- this will mimic the sound I hear (sometimes it's louder, so tap harder)
The valves (one of which is brand new) are both completely open.
The noise seems to travel -- near the beginning of the cycle it starts in the basement, where the pipes for these rads go into the wall. A couple minutes later, the noise is quieter, but closer to the rads. |
Richard O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Roconn
Post Number: 107
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 3:12 pm: | |
Sounds like your pipes are expanding and rubbing on something in the walls ... very hard to fix ...
has anything been done that changed the locations of the radiators on the floor even remotely?
It doesn't take much to cause this kind of a problem
Richard (ROC)
--Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic.--
--AIM: ROConn |
NRL
Citizen
Username: Nrl
Post Number: 437
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 6:06 pm: | |
Dan Holohans book says,
Ticking
This is the sound pipes make when they expand an contract. Especially noticable if the pipe comes in contact with the wall or floor as it pass through on its way to the next room. Holes that the pipes pass through must be wide enough to allow the pipe to thicken as it heats without grabbing the wood and lifting it.
Ticking sounds will happen almost always at the beginning and end of the heat cycle, and they can be tricky because the sound carries well through solid pipe. If your hearing these noises look carefully at the places where the pipes are touching the building. If the holes are too small, (which usually happens when the floor is replaced,) widen them.
Hope this helps. Dans book can be purchased at www.heatinghelp.com for $20. Its well worth it, trust me. |
marken
Citizen
Username: Marken
Post Number: 92
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 10:03 pm: | |
ROC -
We had our carpet removed and hardwood floors refinished, but we put the rads back in the same spot.
We did replace one valve -- which comes out of the floor -- with a slightly taller one since the pipe that leads to that rad was pushing up the newly finished floor. What could this mean?
On the other rad, which has a different line from the main, nothing has changed.
NRL - I do have Dan's book, and it was quite helpful ... probably the best $20 I spent in a while. We only hear the noise at the beginning of the cycle, never at the end. Still the pipe could be touching something, so I'll look in the basement.
|
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3401
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 11:34 pm: | |
I'd be willing to bet that you have some near boiler piping problems. Most replaced boilers do.
More work than it is worth if the system is general ok.
To check it you need to calculate the 'A' and the 'B' measurements around your boiler, the do the math needed to figure out where the pipes need to be.
My bet is that the pipes or off, add a copper connection rather than all steel and you start the problems.
Check to make sure the headers are insulated well, and the pitch is present.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic. |
Richard O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Roconn
Post Number: 109
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 12:28 pm: | |
Ok...so we can all quote Dan's book ... he'd be so pleased...
Marken...if you're still having issues...goto...
www.heatinghelp.com and post on the wall...you'll get a bunch of replies there too ... and from guys in the know!
Richard (ROC)
--Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic.--
--AIM: ROConn |
NRL
Citizen
Username: Nrl
Post Number: 440
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 6:36 pm: | |
Dan says this and Dan says that...
Does that mean Dan wins the free beer?@#!!
LOL! |
marken
Citizen
Username: Marken
Post Number: 93
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 9:00 pm: | |
NRL - Fear not, Dan already got my $20 (and apparently the same from others .... maybe we could have negotiated a bulk rate) No matter what, he won't get the free beer.
JGB - This weekend I'll check the A & B measurements, and insulate the header (the mains are already covered) But why would only a couple of rads in one room be affected? FYI - the near boiler piping is all steel, I made certain of that when it was installed. Also both mains pitch down from the boiler, although I haven't measured the precise slope.
ROC - Thanks for the heatinghelp idea --- Oh great, one MORE fix-it board to post & read ....
This is some great advice, with some doses of reality mixed in.
All -- by the way on a related note --- when I was insulating the pipes, I removed part of the drywall over the boiler (it was practically falling down anyway). If I don't replace it, the dining room subfloor/joists are exposed (about 4 feet above the boiler. What (if any) type of board should I install above the boiler? EG - some type of fireproof drywall. Is this safe as is, and is it town/fire code compliant? |
NRL
Citizen
Username: Nrl
Post Number: 441
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 10:42 pm: | |
Marken,
Thats a great question, I noticed the floor boards in my dining room right above the furnace are warping and squeeking a little more that the rest of the house. I wonder if its because of all of the exposure from the hot/dry air eminating from the furnace over the years. The furnace sits right below that area and the only thing in between is joists and floor planks. I also wonder if the thermostat which is also in the same area (right above the furnace on the first floor) is giving a false reading because of this. |
Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 164
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 8:50 am: | |
Please repair any holes in your boiler room ceiling as they could potentially become penetration points for carbon monoxide should something go wrong.
Master_Plvmber
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Richard O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Roconn
Post Number: 117
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 8:50 am: | |
Maken .. there was drywall (or its equivalent) over my old boiler also...looked like it had been there 'since the day'.
I ripped it out and haven't replaced it for a couple of reasons.
1) It was blocking some wiring I had to ultimately replace/work on
2) It looked like crap
3) I didn't understand what it could be doing there.
My guess was that it had been there very likely from the time of coal in my house. I say this because it was literally coated with either coal dust or soot on the 'top' side (and not to clean on the bottom side either).
Since I now burn clean gas ... since that was the only reason I could lay claim to I didn't worry about it.
The one possible upside is that I am getting more migration of heat up through the floor in that area (my living room, in front of the fireplace) and since that's where the 'comfy chair' is I guess I see it as a bonus.
Anyone think there may be a problem with not putting it back (its been gone over a year now).
Richard (ROC)
--Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic.--
--AIM: ROConn |
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