| Author |
Message |
    
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1826
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 4:58 pm: |     |
Anyway, why are you defending these students' gratuitous insults to their fellow students, based on their race? What's the point? Are they going to decide not to be black? Are they going to drop out so a [presumably more deserving] white student can matriculate? I mean, what are they trying to do with this?
Of course they have a perfect right to their freedom of expression, but you seem to be all in favor of what they're saying, when you should be denouncing it as crass and uncalled for. |
Dave Ross
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6167
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 5:06 pm: | |
The sale isn't crass; it's half-baked. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2116
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 5:07 pm: | |
Don,
Thread drift and hijacking is a time-honored tradition on MOL. I would further suggest that Dave, despite being more powerful than the Wizard of Oz, would be powerless to stop thread drift.
Anyway, as I said, if you want to make students angry reinstate the draft without college deferments. |
Don Perkins
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 294
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 5:09 pm: | |
Why not you just offer to teach a class, say in anger managment? |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2117
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 5:12 pm: | |
Are you sure I am angry and not trolling? I have been in some extended and serious discussions on MOL and this ain't one of them. |
Don Perkins
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 295
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 5:22 pm: | |
So, since you have nothing of substance in rebuttal, you choose to admittedly "trool" as you call it. Interesting.
Well now, doesn't that say much for the situation at hand. It certainly tells much about you and the insecurity of your positions. I offer facts depicting a major problem that has been at work for many years in our educational system and you decide it better to "troll" and make light of it. OK, I await the response of Michaela. I hope that she might be willing to admit to the serious damage this situation is causing as it unfairly prepares our college students to work in the "real" world. |
Dave Ross
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6168
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 5:27 pm: | |
You offered a "fact", a single instance. You have not proven there is a "major problem that has been at work for many years" by a longshot. It's universally recognized that American colleges are the finest in the world, so it's a tough argument to make, but go for it. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2768
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 5:32 pm: | |
Rutgers is presenting David Frum (former Bush speechwriter who coined "Axis of Evil", and co-author, with Richard Perle, of a new book urging expansion of the preemptive war policy) in a lecture this spring. So cheer up, Don, things may not be as bad for your side as you think. |
Don Perkins
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 297
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 5:38 pm: | |
Dave, I speak of a problem that exists among far too many of our campuses. It is fine with me to watch you play ostrich if you'd like. I suspect you can obtain additional data supporting my theory.
The real fact is what is currently being done to change the inequity. Yes, David Frum, the new immigrant, is being allowed to speak at Rutgers according to Nohero. I'm curious, who else is slated to speak at Rutgers and more importantly, who is paying them? |
Dave Ross
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6170
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 5:42 pm: | |
Here's how Harvard is tainting its graduates with liberal speakers....
2000,
Amartya Sen,
Nobel Prize-winning Economist, Master of Trinity College, LLD
1999,
Alan Greenspan,
Federal Reserve Chairman, LLD
1998,
Mary Robinson,
Former President of the Republic of Ireland, LLD
1997,
Madeleine Albright,
U.S. Secretary of State, LLD
1996,
Harold Varmus,
Director of the National Institutes of Health, DSc
1995,
Václav Havel,
President of the Czech Republic, LLD
1994,
Albert Gore Jr.,
Vice President of the U.S., LLD
1993,
Colin Powell,
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, LLD
1992,
Gro Harlem Brundtland,
Prime Minister, Norway, LLD
1991,
Derek Bok,
President, Harvard, LLD
1990,
Helmut Kohl,
Chancellor of West Germany, LLD
1989,
Benazir Bhutto,
Prime Minister of Pakistan, LLD
1988,
Oscar Arias,
President of Costa Rica, LLD
1987,
Richard von Weizsäcker,
President of the Federal Republic of Germany, LLD
1986,
Lord Carrington,
Secretary- General, NATO, LLD
1985,
Paul A. Volcker,
Chairman, Board of Governors, Federal Reserve Board, LLD
1984,
Juan Carlos I,
King of Spain, LLD
1983,
Carlos Fuentes,
Author and Diplomat, LLD
1982,
John Huston Finley*,
Professor of Greek Literature Emeritus, Harvard
1981,
Thomas John Watson Jr.,
President of IBM, LHD
1980,
Cyrus Roberts Vance**,
Secretary of State
1979,
Helmut Schmidt,
Chancellor,
Federal Republic of Germany, LLD
1978,
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn,
Nobel Prize-winning Russian Novelist, LittD
1977,
Barbara Jordan,
U.S. Representative, LLD
1976,
Daniel Patrick Moynihan,
Professor of Government, Harvard |
Dave Ross
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6171
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 5:47 pm: | |
Here's the link Don was looking for
http://www.conservativenews.org/Education/archive/EDU19990527a.html |
Don Perkins
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 299
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 5:55 pm: | |
Dave, I am offended that you choose to place my name upon that link. I ask that you apologize. I suspect your motives are obvious to some, but I would prefer to fight my own battles thank you.
What I would like is a list of Rutgers speakers and who paid for them. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2118
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 6:07 pm: | |
Ann Coulter managed to graduate from Cornell and go on to become a mouthpiece for conservatism. I would further suggest that 90% of students ignore speakers in favor of more interesting things like parties.
I can still vividly remember a graduate student T.A. who so misrepresented our country that to this day it makes me a bit angry.
However, not one bit of this has damaged my ability to function after I graduated.
So, other than at an academic level, I am not understanding how the liberal leanings of many academics is a problem. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2770
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 6:07 pm: | |
Nope, Don, not going to play. You made a blanket statement, supported by a few examples. People pointed out counter-examples. Trying to "prove you wrong", to your satisfaction, is ultimately a useless enterprise, since you've already convinced yourself on little or no evidence.
So, have a nice day! |
anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 937
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 8:39 pm: | |
I started reading the link Dave posted and stopped when I saw David Gergen listed as a Clinton advisor. He certainly was that. He is also a well known conservative Republican! |
ML1
Citizen
Username: Ml1
Post Number: 1482
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 9:28 pm: | |
That list of commencement speakers was a travesty.
Bill Cosby showed up on that list a few times, and he's a well-known radical pinko. All that "Jello Pudding" he pitched -- well known in underground circles as code for raw heroin.
That whole Huxtable family were pretty dangerous . That Theo character even went to college at -- you guessed it -- NYU, hotbed of radical liberalism. Another daughter went to Princeton, who of course invited Marian Wright Edelman to speak.
And don't get me started on Bill Nye "The Science Guy" ... |
Dave Ross
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6172
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 9:46 pm: | |
As an apology to Don for "linking in his name" (a new, but no doubt serious infraction and hiterhto unknown violation of netiquette), I offer this link as evidence of the liberal takeover of universities across the land. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1827
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:17 pm: | |
I'm still trying to figure out what the difference is between this "a major problem that has been at work for many years in our educational system" and "a bunch of students forbidden from acting like assholes by demeaning and insulting their fellow students in public places." |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 474
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:49 pm: | |
tom,
this is "working the refs," a strategy the Republicans have used to perfection against the so-called "liberal media." It's like a basketball coach who harangues the referees on every call, in the hopes that the refs will be intimidated and give him the next call. The news organizations long ago bent so far over backwards to please the Repubs that most of them now serve as little more than RNC mouthpieces.
Now that they've conquered government and media, they're taking aim at last bastion of liberalism - academia. Complain and complain about liberal bias until the schools start hiring faculty that meets conservative approval. |
Dave Ross
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6174
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:52 pm: | |
The reactionary media is the worst. |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 271
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 12:20 am: | |
Anon
don't know gergen as a conservative anything.
I do know him as one of the most boring, unexciting opiners in the media.
He works both sides of the executive branch, not the aisle. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4396
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 7:42 am: | |
I love the link Dave linked to. Who considers Dole, Baker and Warner moderates? To me they, especially as respects Ms. Dole and Mr. Baker, always line up and salute when asked.
I also find putting Stormin' Norman on the list of "true" conservatives hilarious since he filed a brief in favor of affirmative action in the University of Michigan case last year.
With that said, I think that major universities should try to bring in some rightest speakers. That is what academic freedom and tenure are about imho. The question is, how many right wingers want to run the gauntlet in that setting? |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 627
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 10:22 am: | |
If an equal amount of speakers are from both sides of the spectrum that is a good thing. I wish I could say the same about the professors.
The ones the kids listen to every single day. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4401
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 10:31 am: | |
Heck there is always Oral Roberts University and Bob Jones University for those with a conservative bend. I wonder if they call in liberal speakers?  |
Dave Ross
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6176
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 1:21 pm: | |
quote:If an equal amount of speakers are from both sides of the spectrum that is a good thing.
So you favor quotas |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 631
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 1:33 pm: | |
No, just that it happens to be a good thing to have diverse of points of view. I'm not sure it would be 50/50 regardless of what web site you throw up but no need for quotas. I'll live. |
Rowdy Yates
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 301
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 2:28 pm: | |
Instead, why not ask that each college spend an equal amount of money for speakers from both sides. Take a moment to imagine what it will be like to implement that strategy.
Every time a tax-and-spend liberal (like Molly Ivins or RFK, Jr.) hits up your local university for a $15,000+ plug for the DNC, the university will have to fund that amount to conservative speakers offering a contrary point of view.
An additional kicker would be for conservatives to reduce fees for all speeches given at public universities. Charge no more than $5000 for each speech and pay for their travel expenses, then the university will have to fund three different conservative speakers. What better way to celebrate diversity?
|
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 478
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 2:31 pm: | |
"both sides?"
so universities should only feature speakers who represent one or the other pole of your binary universe.
this whole thread is a crock. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 632
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 2:58 pm: | |
Out of a sample of 1000 professors in college and universities, take an educated guess on how many are liberal, conservative or neither. Then again, who cares? |
Dave Ross
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6178
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 4:43 pm: | |
Cowboy proposing anti-free market solutons? I must be dreaming. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4408
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 4:46 am: | |
In spite of what Don wrote in the beginning of this thread, most college students are fairly liberal, except at places like Bob Jones and Oral Roberts. I really don't think to many conservatives really want to run the gauntlet to peak at most of these schools unless the protestors are removed to a protest pen, ala Bush, which most colleges are unwilling to do.
|
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 863
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 2:14 pm: | |
And in a related story apparently only black people can be "African American."
http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/01/22/king.controversy.ap/index.html
Why is this even a controversy? |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1845
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 3:13 pm: | |
sportsnut, it's because this is one of those "you know what I mean" cases. Maybe it's too much of a burden for people to understand that African American generally means "people of African descent, most probably descended from Africans forcibly brought to this continent hundreds of years ago, of racial heritage that is indigenous to Africa." I have two first cousins (who are sisters) whose mother (my aunt by marriage) is a white woman who immigrated from South Africa. My cousins are obviously white and very fair skinned. One is blond-haired. I joked that they should put African American on their college applications, and for some reason, they didn't even chuckle, so I dropped it. Maybe I hit a raw nerve. The joke (in my mind) was that my cousins would not be considered by most Americans to be African American, because their culture is not the same as those who usually use that label. Maybe it's not fair, because they are Americans with African heritage, and they are AA if you parse the term literally. But have I really said anything non-obvious?
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
There is nothing
|
Ed May
Citizen
Username: Edmay
Post Number: 1965
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 12:50 am: | |
I was there in 1976 when Moynihan spoke at the Harvard graduation. His diatribe was an afront to those of us who had just spent two years earning our MBA degrees. The Business School, as you might expect, is a lot more conservative than those across the river.
Ed May |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 437
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 12:43 am: | |
But not fiscally conservative, if the alumni are anything to go by. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 970
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 11:42 am: | |
I don't know about 'most college students are fairly liberal" given recent stories about how things are trending. This is from November of 2003 out of a college newspaper in IL:
"A nationwide poll conducted by the Institute of Politics at Harvard University suggests that college students are becoming more conservative as a whole. According to the results, 31 percent of college students identify themselves as Republicans, as opposed to the 27 percent who consider themselves Democrats."
|
e roberts
Citizen
Username: Wnwd00
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 3:21 pm: | |
Of course college students are becoming more conservative look at what they are exposed to. I graduated 8 years ago but i have taken a few grad courses at seton hall. did you know in 2002 the president of Iran a Khatami came and spoke at seton hall about the world coming together through the UN? i was able to go it was an excellent talk. did you know that same year SHU refused to let Gov. Mcgeevy come and speak on campus to discuss campaing finance and the state of the state because some SHU students felt it was not right because he is pro choice.
i think this is going on all ove the county. where administrators or a small group of students from a powerful cause such as pro-life can totally dominate all media these students are exposed to.
The response from this (which tends to be very liberal in nature , at least in my expierence) is that college students propel in the opposite direction.
if universities really want to stick with their mission they should present all view liberal, conservative and other. |
lumpynose
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 746
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 5:22 pm: | |
Yeah but Seton Hall is a private and Catholic university. |
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