| Author |
Message |
    
Morrisa da Silva
Citizen
Username: Mod
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 10:01 am: |     |
I was just thumbing through the News Record and was a little taken aback to see on Page 6 an ad congatulating South Mountain school for "Zapping the Gap".
It went on to say "For the outstanding achievement of African American 4th Graders.
24% of African American Students were advanced proficient on the NJ ASK Test."
First thing I wondered was who bought the ad?
Hey, I'm all for reading good news about our schools and would have certainly enjoyed an article about South Mountain's success as It related to the district as a whole, but this ad just seems tacky and kind of misleading.
Does anyone feel as I do?
When we were looking for a house (1996-97)there was a lot of talk out there about which school was better than the next. A lot of "Oh you don't want to buy a house in 'that' district." I was glad when that kind of talk dissipated. Comparing schools to each other only goes so far. Are there different practices? or programs in place? (The domonstration school). Are there differing makeups? (% of LEP or economically disadvantaged). One years test results does not a trend make.
Opinions?
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Morrisa da Silva
Citizen
Username: Mod
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 10:04 am: | |
Sorry, correction to the above the ad is on page 7 |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1836
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 10:49 am: | |
What false conclusion do you think it leads the readers to?
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
There is nothing
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Morrisa da Silva
Citizen
Username: Mod
Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 10:55 am: | |
I suppose misleading in that If I'm not mistaken South Mountain has a higher per capita income for it's African American population. It's percentage of economically disadvantaged is much lower than the other elementary schools. This puts a different light on their "success".
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SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 313
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 1:04 pm: | |
I feel like an old lady - I keep referring back in the day when my kids went to school... anyway.. back in the day, kids who lived off Irvington were sent to S. Mtn. - not exactly an economically advantaged area - is that not the case these days? |
jfburch
Citizen
Username: Jfburch
Post Number: 1253
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 2:22 pm: | |
Yes, South Mountain does have a somewhat different demographic profile from the district as a whole. I don't have exact numbers for this year, but SM runs about 5% economically disadvantaged, the district average is closer to 20% and some schools are something over 25% (high enough to qualify for Title 1 funds).
Moreover, and as I am fond of noting, it's hard to conclude much from a single number out of context, though it is certainly somthing to be pleased about.
In addition to the demographic factors, the NJASK is a new test, and statewide data has not yet been released, so it's hard to know if, and to what extent, the new test has changed patterns, and it's not possible to compare to prior years.
Just at SM, the percentage of white students scoring AP dropped by almost 2/3 and the percentage of students of both races scoring only partially proficient increased threefold (actually not unusual with a new test).
What this really tells us about the achievement gap or what South Mountain is or is not doing to narrow it, I am not sure. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4422
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 2:31 pm: | |
Also from previous posts the African American students didn't fare very well on the math section of the test.
I really wish either the Academy street Gang or the State would get off the dime and publish all this information. |
Morrisa da Silva
Citizen
Username: Mod
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 3:44 pm: | |
JF Burch- Thanks for the information.
Still leaves me to wonder who bought the ad and to what purpose. Still seems kind of strange.
Well, to me at least |
suzanneng
Citizen
Username: Suzanneng
Post Number: 71
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 4:48 pm: | |
Would a call to the N-R tell you who bought the ad? I'll admit, I teach at SM and knew nothing about the ad. While we may not have the high percentage of disadvantaged students of other schools, our attendance area does extend all the way down SO Ave towards Seton Hall. We have students from Academy St, Village Road, West Fairview, Lindsley, Eder Terr, Seton Place, etc.
Please note these are my personal observations/comments and do not reflect the opinion of my school/district. |
Barbara
Citizen
Username: Blh
Post Number: 203
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 5:12 pm: | |
Suzanne
I thought that students from the eastern side of South Orange - the area known as the wedge or College Park (Seton, Eder, etc.) have attended Marshall since the redistricting a few years ago. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1839
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 6:42 pm: | |
yes, the wedge (area between Irvington Ave and SO ave) is now at Marshall and S Mountain got some portion of what used to be at Clinton. Sorry, I do not know how to identify that area though. |
suzanneng
Citizen
Username: Suzanneng
Post Number: 72
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 9:37 pm: | |
right, barbara and ffof... I also don't know how to ID that area south of the wedge. We also have kids from Third, Fourth. I think we have a few siblings from the wedge area - kids who started at SM, whose siblings had gone to SM, who petitioned to stay. |
fringe
Citizen
Username: Fringe
Post Number: 276
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 8:10 am: | |
The NJ ASK test was first administered to NJ 3rd and 4th grades in the Spring of 2003. It has no relation to the previos NJ ESPA test given to 4th graders previously. As such, comparisons with previous years without some other reference points are extremely tenuous. One need look only at the NJ ESPA results at http://hometown.aol.com/njfabian to see an illustration of the point. When scores for all groups make the same jump as charted there, the primary reason is a change in the test or its grading - not the increased intelligence of the students.
The comparative state figures by district factor group for the NJ ASK have not been released by the NJDOE at this writing. |
andream
Citizen
Username: Andream
Post Number: 10
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 12:22 pm: | |
I have to agree with Morrisa de Silva that the ad was "tacky and misleading". What was its purpose? Having had children that attended South Mountain and then other district schools when we moved to another zone, it has been clear to me that (1) the teaching at other elementary schools is at least as good at that going on at South Mountain and (2) from an economic standpoint, South Mountain's black population does not mirror any other school's, or the district's as a whole.
Maybe it's time for another redistricting. (Although last time anyone tried to do that, after an outcry from some South Mountain parents, Dr. Horoschak reversed his plan that would have moved some higher income families out of South Mountain and moved some lower income families in. Approved by the BOE.)
I think it's time that whoever is responsible here turn his/her/their energies to initiatives that will benefit the whole community. The South Mountain PTA should be making efforts here to discourage this type of talk and attitude toward the rest of the district. It's a disgrace. |
doublea
Citizen
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 402
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 2:03 pm: | |
My understanding of the achievement gap is that is exists regardless of the income level or educational level of the parents. It seems that one of the possible reasons given here is the higher economic level of the parents. If that is correct, what does this say about the premise that economic level does not matter? |
jfburch
Citizen
Username: Jfburch
Post Number: 1262
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 2:18 pm: | |
The achievement gap is pervasive--meaning it occurs at all levels of socio-economic status and school quality.
But that does not mean economic level does not matter--the gap between black and white students at higher SES levels and at the best schools is much smaller than the gap between lower SES or disadvantaged kids, and those at weak or completely failing schools, and kids who have higher SES and good schools.
The achievement gap also has many contributing factors (and researchers are not necessarily in agreement about what they are; and they are at best, hard to disentangle)--SES and school quality are big ones, but they are not the only ones.
SES is almost certainly a factor here, for a fraction of our students. There are almost certainly other factors. |
bookgal
Citizen
Username: Bookgal
Post Number: 464
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 4:26 pm: | |
I thought the ad was very tacky and especially troubling as it was unsigned. I am with Andream on this one re: possible redistricting of the South Mountain ...it is worth looking in to. |
happyman
Citizen
Username: Happyman
Post Number: 90
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 7:54 pm: | |
I must admit, I am not a big fan of the ad … However, I am more dismayed at the sudden call for redistricting. I would rather see our administration’s limited time and resources spent speaking to teacher/administrators/parents to find out what went right here? I think the first action should not be how do we spread these high achieving students throughout the district, but rather what (if anything?) is different? Redistricting is a costly, time consuming process that does not always yield the anticipated or desired affect. I am not against redistricting …just a little surprised at the immediate suggestion. Please explain what would be the suggested redistricting lines and the anticipated/desired affect. |
bookgal
Citizen
Username: Bookgal
Post Number: 465
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 8:29 pm: | |
If something particular to South Mountain is in play in terms of curriculum or applying the curriculum to bridge the gap, then great, let's try to apply that everywhere in the district. If the results are due mostly to the socio economic demographics of the school, then perhaps the Board of Ed would like to examine whether they should "spread the wealth" more equitably district wide. I am not advocating redistricting but I think we may have to look at lots of possibilities in order to comply with NCLB legislation. In fact, I think I distinctly heard David Frazer at one of the televised BOE meetings suggest that we may have to look at redistricting although no specifics were mentioned (of course ,he could have been joking).
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bookgal
Citizen
Username: Bookgal
Post Number: 466
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 8:36 pm: | |
I'm no fan of NCLB, but we are going to be very seriously financially pressed if we don't comply. It is going to be very, very difficult for the title 1 schools in the district to comply and we may well have problems elsewhere especially pertaining to special ed. If we lose funding because of failure to comply, the BOE may well be forced to look at redistricting to change or affect the title 1 schools. I don't follow this stuff as closely as I should. And, I don't think we should jump on a redistricting bandwagon.
I am quite sure whoever placed the tacky ad didn't think that it would lead to this thread drift. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 450
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:10 am: | |
I, too think it would be great to learn what works so well at South Mountain (my son is now in his 3rd year there).
Could it have to do with the longevity of recently deceased principal, Mrs Nancy Murray?
My son has some special needs -- and I found it extraordinary that she went out of her way to find out about him, our family, and to sit in with us at nearly all meetings with his teachers. She also knew his grandparents by name.
If nothing else, her long tenure certainly must have brought stability to the students, parents, and staff. (although I believe there is more to it than that!) What's the history of principals at other elementary schools in the district?
Its also my observation that there don't seem to be that many more or less parents involved with the schools (main bldg & annex) than I experienced with my daughter in another district while she was in elementary school.
Pete
Pete |
lah
Citizen
Username: Lah
Post Number: 174
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 1:11 pm: | |
At Marshall, my son experienced 3 principals in 3 years. The first one went to Tuscan (and is still there). The second one came from Clinton (and has retired, although she was not old). The third one is still there. That means that Marshall, Clinton and Tuscan have all seen principal turnover within the last 5 years. |
emmie
Citizen
Username: Emmie
Post Number: 245
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 5:25 pm: | |
Speaking of principals, South Mountain has had two different principals since Sept. Both were and are "interim" principals until they hire a permanent one to replace Nancy Murray who died in Aug. One served from Sept. to Dec. and the current principal, who came after holiday break, and will serve until June. Word is that they have stopped the search for now but will begin interviewing again in a few months for next September. |
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