| Author |
Message |
    
hismom
Citizen
Username: Hismom
Post Number: 87
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 3:10 pm: |     |
I did not grow up in NJ but last I took the drivers test here it was law to stop for pedestrians in a crosswalk. Every day I take my child to preschool I see dozens of cars fail to yield to moms & kids waiting to cross Prospect street. These cars zoom by only to stop at a red light a few yards further down.
People - you are in a nice warm car! Consider the kids/moms/dads standing in the bitter cold for a while waiting while car after car ignores the crosswalk.
This also happens in Maplewood village and on Jefferson as well as near the middle school/high school. Well, basically every when there isn't a crossing guard.
Did someone change the law?? |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 340
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 3:19 pm: | |
It appears to me that yielding to people crossing the street in the village is pretty well respected. I can't really comment on other parts of town . |
Waldo
Citizen
Username: Discowaldo
Post Number: 28
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 3:24 pm: | |
I live on South Orange Ave. and I usually dont have any trouble crossing the street, but same as jet said I cant really comment on the rest of town. And also I'm not a parent so I can usually run across rather quickly, because I dont have a child with me. |
marian
Citizen
Username: Marian
Post Number: 80
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 4:22 pm: | |
I frequently find that the cars driving through the Baker and Dunnell intersection by the railroad tracks where that little traffic island is don't yield to pedestrians. (And there are lots of them crossing every time a train comes in.)
Sometimes (especially when I'm tired and cold) I shout at them as they speed through: "THANK YOU VERY MUCH! HOW VERY CONSIDERATE OF YOU!"
I know, I know...I'm gonna get shot one of these days.... |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1846
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 4:39 pm: | |
This really ticks me off big-time. I'm thinking of carring disposable somethings to hit their cars with. I'm tempted to throw my keys at their cars, but I might lose them.
Sometimes acting frantic in the crosswalk makes them act better, but it might not be out of a sense of duty.
ajc says the only thing that does any good are those signs that stand up in the middle of the crosswalk, and that's not to say that they do a complete job.
Oh, and hismom, in case you were not asking rhetorically, it most definitely is the law to yield to pedestrians. Most drivers have forgotten that fact, if they ever learned it. I actually believe that many don't know what yield means. My favorite definition is that if the other person had to change speed or direction because of you, you didn't yield.
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
There is nothing
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ligeti
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 55
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 4:41 pm: | |
Dear hismom,
It's a New Jersey thing. Worst drivers, roads and incomprehensible signs. On SO & Maplewood Aves., and especially Prospect, I have become accustomed to drivers (mostly SUVs) scowling at me if I dare to set foot in a marked crosswalk that they could clearly stop for. These drivers are the center of existence --there's not much you can do. Funny thing is: a lot of the SUVs that race through crosswalks are driven by women with kids in the back seat. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2381
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 4:42 pm: | |
I've become so used to drivers going through the crosswalks at Valley Street and Prospect Street when I am standing in the crosswalk waiting to cross, that I have become resigned to just standing there until there is a sufficient break in the traffic for me to pass the rest of the way safely.
The drivers who really get to me are the ones who see me begin to cross the street from about a block away and immediately step on the gas so they can make it through the intersection without stopping.
It would be a lot safer for everyone if they just kept going at the same speed or heaven forbid slowed down a bit so we could all proceed safely. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2659
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 4:47 pm: | |
Hoe did the baby cross the road? |
marian
Citizen
Username: Marian
Post Number: 81
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 4:48 pm: | |
How Mem? |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1847
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 4:55 pm: | |
Joan, I'm more aggressive as a pedestrian. I learned it growing up in Manhattan. I enter the crosswalk and stare the drivers down. One day, I'll be dead right. It even ticks me off when I see pedestrians waiting docilely for traffic to break. And I also get a little annoyed when pedestrians thank me for stopping for them. I wasn't being nice, I was doing what I am supposed to do.
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
There is nothing
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Lambda Lover
Citizen
Username: Lambdalover
Post Number: 13
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 5:18 pm: | |
Crossing the street near the library, I've actually had somebody honk at me because I walked across the crosswalk, forcing her to slow down. |
ligeti
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 56
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 5:33 pm: | |
I'm with you, Tom. I view it as a civic duty. I first make sure there is no question that 1) it is a legally defined crosswalk; 2) they can see me; 3) they have time to stop if they are traveling at the speed limit; and finally 4) I have time to jump out of the way if they decide to kill me so they can be on time for their hair salon appointment. Then I strut out and stare them down. They have no choice but to stop, and often start yelling at me. Which invites me to delay them even further with a instructive, tart lecture about basic traffic rules. I'm happy to help raise awareness on this issue; hopefully, these blockheads will remember my vivid demonstration next time they approach a crosswalk -- perhaps with kids. |
blackcat
Citizen
Username: Blackcat
Post Number: 148
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 5:54 pm: | |
The crosswalks need to more clearly defined - paint and perhaps texture. What really pisses me off are the people that cross wherever they feel(across from the parking lot to King's/theater side) and then get mad because you've beeped. I once had a shouting match with some a-hole who saw us coming, walked right into the street with small children and scolded me for not yielding...Good way to teach the kids to use a crosswalk.... Hey, if you're not in a crosswalk, your fare game. |
Duncan
Citizen
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 1467
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 7:02 pm: | |
both fair game and fare game as far as I am concerned. Once again this behaviour points to the "the rules dont apply to me" attitude that permeates this part of the country. It pisses me off no end when people do that, makes me want to run em down and say, but officer, I didnt expect anyone to step in front of my car in the middle of the street, I'm terribly (snicker snicker) sorry./
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"
Wayne Gretzky |
Spare_o
Citizen
Username: Spare_o
Post Number: 6
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 7:03 pm: | |
While I haven't lived in Maplewood long (since August 2003) I haven't had quite the same experience as some. Drivers seem to stop begrudgingly near the train station but more willingly in the Village.
I lived in Hoboken for 7 years where the undeclared sport seems to be Scare the Pedestrian. I had to become quite the assertive street crosser and have also had an argument or two in the street. Maybe not a big life accomplishment but for someone who grew up in LA (as in Los Angeles) where cars prevail and pedestrians are few, it has been a learning experience. I find that staring drivers down can work, as Tom said. I also go out of my way when I am driving to stop for pedestrians in the hopes that good behavior will rub off. |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 124
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 8:29 am: | |
The only thing I really wish people were mindful of as pedestrians is that if the crosswalk is at a traffic light - they should wait until the light turns red to cross. Am I crazy to think this? A driver needs to yield to pedestrians in crosswalks -- but when there is a green light there, don't cars have the right of way? It just seems so dangerous to me that people disregard the traffic laws because they think they always have the right of way when on foot. There's a spot on South Orange Ave that peds do this all the time!
One other question -- do drivers need to yield to pedestrians that just cross the road anywhere they feel like it? I think it's dangerous that people just dart out anywhere they feel like it and so many people don't even look before heading across because they figure cars have to stop for them.
Do I have my traffic laws mixed up? |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4429
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 8:32 am: | |
Doesn't the law require that motorists yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk? I doubt many here are going to view someone in the street as a target of opportunity.
However, someone standing at the curb isn't in the crosswalk and, according to a defensive driving course I was forced to take years ago, if you signal for someone to cross you are taking responsibility for their safety until they make it safely to the other side of the street.
I have also stopped for pedestrians on the curb, especially in downtown, only to find they were not crossing the street, only yaking on their cell phones. 
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Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1848
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 2:16 pm: | |
LilB, I'm not sure what you mean by red and green, so I'll describe the law as I understand it. Imagine you are driving north and there is someone walking north on the sidewalk on your right side. You both come to an intersection. He wants to continue north in the crosswalk, and you want to turn right (or east), which would send you through the crosswalk. You both have a green light. As the driver of a motor vehicle, your duty is to yield to him. This means altering your course or speed so that he doesn't have to alter his course or speed. You also should not drive close to him or fast enough to scare him.
Is that clear?
Many drivers act in the belief that the pedestrians are supposed to wait for them. They are utterly mistaken.
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
There is nothing
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LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 126
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 5:16 pm: | |
No, actually, I mean you're driving straight through a green light, but a pedestrian decides to cross the street you're currently on, right in front of your car because they think cars have to yield to you no matter what. Shouldn't the pedestrian wait until oncoming traffic has a red light before crossing at that intersection? |
spw784
Citizen
Username: Spw784
Post Number: 454
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 6:58 pm: | |
In LilLb's situation, if there is a light controlling the intersection there is also likely to be a WALK/DON'T WALK signal. If the cars have the green, then the pedestrian traffic waiting to cross that lane of traffic should have the "don't walk" signal. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4434
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 7:07 pm: | |
In the video game Grand Theft Auto II you get bonus points for hitting a pedestrian under those conditions. |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 278
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 7:13 pm: | |
It's as simple as motorists watching out for pedestrians, and pedestrians (and BIKERS)watching out for motorists. DMV rules and laws apply to all of us.
The problem is really me first attitude, impatience and cell phone inattention.
The pain for all in a tragic accident is not worth the saving of a few minutes.
In the late 80's I had a rare epihany. Did anyone, most importantly my boss, care if I arrived at work at 7:30, 8:10 or 8:40am? The answer was No, I didn't get rewarded for that, and so I slowed down my frantic rush to the train station, stopped running for the train and started enjoying the interlude.
It is a lot easier to be not rushed and be courteous because, pedestrians and other motorists need all the assistance they can get.
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Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1852
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 10:35 pm: | |
As to the law when the motorist has a green light and a pedestrian does not, it's true that the pedestrian is wrong, but if there is an opportunity to avoid hitting him, there is an obligation to avoid it. But if you hit him, the arguments about who is at fault are really secondary to more important matters. But if you want to get annoyed while you avoid him, go ahead, because yes, it is rude of him. But also remember that you are the one imposing the danger to him by driving a heavy vehicle, not vice versa, so don't get altogether huffy over it.
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
There is nothing
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cody
Citizen
Username: Cody
Post Number: 461
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 11:03 am: | |
That's very true, Tom.
If I recall correctly, in an intersection with a crosswalk, but without a light, the pedestrian always has the right of way.
In an intersection with a crosswalk and a light, the light determines who has the right of way, and in some cases it will be the vehicle.
When crossing where there is NO crosswalk, the pedestrian does not have the right of way, but obviously drivers have an obligation to not blithely run down pedestrians.
When a police officer or crossing guard is in an intersection, they have the final say as to who has the right of way and their directions supercede all other signals.
As a driver, I find that if I stop for a pedestrian, I risk being rear-ended by the car behind me. I posted about that a while ago, because I had stopped to let some children cross Prospect early one weekday morning and the car behind me missed me by about 7 inches because the driver apparently didn't notice I was stopping (or felt I shouldn't have). She proceded to yell and gesture at me for daring to stop.
As a driver and mom of a kid who walks to school, I'd love to see more police enforcement of allowing pedestrians to cross at marked crosswalks. If it can work in California, it should be able to work here. When I was last there, I saw that the minute a pedestrian stepped into a crosswalk, all traffic stopped until that person was across the street. It was a revelation! |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4440
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 11:18 am: | |
My favorite is the pedestrian who steps into the crosswalk when a car is about twenty feet from them. How do you spell "death wish".
Cody is correct about being rearended. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2385
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 4:19 pm: | |
My grandfather taught me how to jaywalk when I was four so I have little fear of stepping into crosswalks and attempting to stare down drivers so they will slow down or stop long enough for me to make it safely across. However, in my twenty plus years walking to/from the train station every day, a trip which necessitates my using three clearly marked crosswalks, I have learned that the rules which were always followed on Brokklyn streets just don't seem to apply in Maplewood.
I would love to be able to walk directly into the crosswalk when I come to a corner like Valley Street and Oakview Avenue but there is far too much traffic to make this a viable alternative. Usually, I will wait until the traffic moving in the lane of traffic nearest the curb I am occupying clears the intersection and then walk halfway across the street, hoping that the traffic coming in the other direction will stop before the next wave of traffic feels the need to pass through the crosswalk while I am still waiting there to cross.
The most dangerious situations I have encountered occur when: (1) the car leading the line of traffic has stopped to let me cross and a car behind that one swerves into the lane where I am standing to pass the stopped vehicle. This is a very scary situation and has happened several times; or (2) the driver of a car waiting at the intersection to make a left onto Valley Street is so focused on the pause in traffic that s/he decides to speed through the intersection at the same time I am crossing and stops very suddenly upon seeing me in the intersection for the first time.
These situations are both very dangerous for the pedestrian who unlike the driver of the car is not encased in a protective metal shell. I have been forced to conclude that it is healthier to be the one who might be a little bit late for a train or an appointment. At least I am still alive to post this. Others have not been so fortunate. There have been a surprising number of serious injuriues which have occurred in Maplewood crosswalks not controled by traffic lights just because the driver of a vehicle had the need to proceed through a crosswalk without following the law. |
sullymw
Citizen
Username: Sullymw
Post Number: 218
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 9:02 am: | |
I almost get run down on a daily basis at the train station. For those cars that rush by me without even a thought of yielding, they get a variety of hand gestures and facial contortions....that will teach 'em.
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Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1854
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 9:14 am: | |
Sadly, I've learned that it doesn't teach them. My frustration is that it's hard to teach anything to a population.
Some suggestions here involve increased police enforcement. That would cost money. I'd like to see creative approaches that don't use much money. Is there any hope of having leaflets or signs put all around? Would they work?
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
There is nothing
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Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 353
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:26 am: | |
Play paintball with the offenders? As in, permit pedestrians to shoot paint-filled balloons at the cars/trucks of those engage in this behavior?
Only half-joking. I stop for pedestrians, especially students of all ages on Parker. Many, many times I've had bad news drivers (going in either direction) honk at me, try to pass me, you name it. Often I've wished I had a concrete way to register my disgust. |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1856
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:29 am: | |
There is a law explicitly against passing a vehicle which has stopped for pedestrians. But so what, right?
Hmm, maybe a handheld STOP sign like the crossing guards have? Stick it out the window when others try to pass. Well, it's a fun fantasy anyway.
I should stop reading this thread. It makes me really angry, even though we're all in agreement. Or maybe it's because we are. 
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
There is nothing
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mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2667
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:57 am: | |
Marian,
It was stapled to the chicken. |
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