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Message |
    
snshirsch
Citizen
Username: Snshirsch
Post Number: 122
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 4:14 pm: | 
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What's up with the non enforcement of the clearing of sidewalks. It's been how long now since our last snowstorm? A week? Why are so many sidewalks and driveways (the sidewalk portion) still not shoveled (well shoveled may be an understatement, they are covered with ice). Our kids have to walk to school and quite frankly, someone is eventually going to slip and fall. You have to think that SO could make up part of its budget by simply ticketing the offenders. By the way, clearly this is not just SO, I have noticed the same problem in MPLWD. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 924
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 4:49 pm: |
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There has been enforcement. Some residents have been given warnings and/or a summons. Some prefer to pay the fine rather than deal with the snow/ice.
I think most if not all the storeowners/landlords in the downtown have cleared a path.
This last storm was a real problem for anyone who did not clear the snow as soon as the storm was over since the temperature dropped so quickly.
Everyone gets another chance very soon. |
Mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 742
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 5:00 pm: |
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Mark,
Some prefer to pay the fine rather than deal with the snow/ice.
Is there a choice? I would think a fine would continue indefinitely until the sidewalk was cleared, no? (i.e. a new fine would be issued each day that the sidewalk was not cleared) |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonhw
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 5:11 pm: |
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That includes Pulte. |
thegoodsgt
Citizen
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 370
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 6:03 pm: |
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One of the troublesome areas in town is the length of sidewalk in front of the old hardware store, which is almost never cleared. (I forget who actually owns it now.) It would be nice if the Blue Moon or Bunnie's would pitch in and shovel the snow. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 925
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 10:04 am: |
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MHD: A homeowner can be fined more than once. If it was up to me, we should be more aggressive in giving out fines. It always seems to be the same homes and businesses that never clear their walk.
thegoodsgt: To be fair, I have seen someone from Blue Moon clear the sidewalk well past where he is required. I have also seen the owners of Bunny's sweep the sidewalk in front of the old hardware store, but now that the building is privately owned (as opposed to NJ Transit) the village should fine the new owner and make sure he clears the sidewalk even if the buildings are vacant. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 452
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 10:27 am: |
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This past weekend, while at FLoods hill (GREAT sledding!) -- I saw a municipal vehicle driving slowly -- and it seemed like the driver was writing out summons (looks like they stopped at every house where the sidewalks were iced over).
BTW -- there was a Mom in a 6 mpg Suburban, who instead of letting her kids walk back up the hill, shuttled them from the bottom to the top. Now THAT is something that should be verboten! :-)
Pete
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happyman
Citizen
Username: Happyman
Post Number: 93
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 10:31 am: |
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Just curious...what is the fine? With snow removal costing upwards of $75, I think we may be rewarding non-compliance when all we give is just a warning after one full week! |
thegoodsgt
Citizen
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 371
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 11:16 am: |
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Okay, this may be a bit progressive, but upon writing a second summons for an uncleared sidewalk, the town should hire someone to actually shovel the sidewalk. Three benefits:
- The homeowner pays for the snow removal.
- The sidewalk is cleared for safe passage.
- Someone receives a job (albeit part-time).
Obviously the cost of the fine would need to cover the cost of employing the workers. And surely there's enough work to keep a team of guys employeed through the season.
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SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 325
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 11:19 am: |
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You know, that's a good idea thegoodsgt! Perhaps those who are unable to shovel (like my 87 year old mother-in-law)could sign-up at the beginning of the season. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 929
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 11:29 am: |
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Actually, I spoke with someone at SHU about having students helping out with seniors including shoveling snow for them.
As for those who get fined, I would not want the village to be the ones who shoveled for them, laid out the money and then count on the courts to make sure the fines are paid.
I know a lien could be put on the property for the cost of clearing the sidewalk, but hiring part-timers even if only seasonal is a problem. They still have to be supervised and there are some other issues (including a chance of getting hurt on the job and then having workman's comp issues).
Personally, I think we should increase the amount of the fines and fine a homeowner every day the walk is not cleared. If the penalty is big enough, then the sidewalks will get done.
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Waldo
Citizen
Username: Discowaldo
Post Number: 29
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 11:35 am: |
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From what I heard there was issue with some of the residents not removing the snow due to the fact that the town snow plows pushed large amounts of snow and slush onto their area of sidewalk after they had already shoveled their part. Then because of the frigid temperatures this slush turned into ice and is now extrememly hard to remove. Is the town giving any sort of break to these specific cases? |
happyman
Citizen
Username: Happyman
Post Number: 95
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 11:45 am: |
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I'm with you mosner .... keep the town out of it! Just make the penalty negative enough to have neighbors perform their responsibility.
The other day I was walking the dog on the sidewalk, I encountered yet another unshoveled sidewalk, released my (extremely well trained dog!) to allow him to walk on the sidewalk and me to go over into the road. I then was stopped by an officer who warned me about having my dog off leash!!! I can't win some days  |
Katie Clayton
Citizen
Username: Grovykndofluv
Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 8:22 pm: |
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why should it be the blue moon or bunnies responsibality>? they have enough sidewalks to deal with (and they do a great job) make whoever owns the stores clean their own sidewalks...and while u tell them that tell them to do something about the windows as well... it looks trashy... |
thegoodsgt
Citizen
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 386
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 4:09 pm: |
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In legal terms, you're right, a business is responsible for only their own sidewalk. However, knowing that nearby sidewalks are rarely cleared, wouldn't a "good citizen" (be he a business or individual) clear the sidewalks? (Clearly, a complaint should be filed with the appropriate authorities in the meantime to hold the other business owners responsible.) Being a good corporate neighbor only makes sense, in that a clear sidewalk facilitates the entry/egress of customers from one's business.
As an example, McDonalds (when I worked there many years ago) had a policy of picking up trash within a one block radius of each restaurant. Was there a law that required them to do so? No. But they decided that clean streets improved the community, which is good for everyone. |
pizzaz
Citizen
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 60
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 4:25 pm: |
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Pizzaz - My sentiments, exactly. |
just me fromsouthorange
Citizen
Username: Jmfromsorange
Post Number: 95
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 8:06 pm: |
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i agree with you people should be 'good citizens,' but should those who don't shovel start being good citizens?
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thegoodsgt
Citizen
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 386
Registered: 2-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 4:09 pm:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In legal terms, you're right, a business is responsible for only their own sidewalk. However, knowing that nearby sidewalks are rarely cleared, wouldn't a "good citizen" (be he a business or individual) clear the sidewalks? (Clearly, a complaint should be filed with the appropriate authorities in the meantime to hold the other business owners responsible.) Being a good corporate neighbor only makes sense, in that a clear sidewalk facilitates the entry/egress of customers from one's business.
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thegoodsgt
Citizen
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 387
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 9:23 am: |
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Yes, those who don't shovel should start being good citizens. They should be "motivated" to so so via escalating fines. For example: First fine is $50. Next fine is $100. Next one is $200. And so on. |
Duncan
Citizen
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 1547
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 2:36 pm: |
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No sarge.. the rate should be much steeper. First fine is $50. Next is $100. If you are stupid and/or lazy enough to get a third fine, it should cost you $1000. Then you will see folks clearing the walks.
Alls Well That Ends Well. Playing through March 7. info at http://www.hometown.aol.com/theatr1010/
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 988
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 4:10 pm: |
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Does a person start fresh each year?
Any exemptions for seniors who can't shovel and who can't always get someone to come help in a timely manner?
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just me fromsouthorange
Citizen
Username: Jmfromsorange
Post Number: 99
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 9:23 pm: |
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if you can be fined for false burglar alarms you should be fined for not shoveling. make the first offense a warning, then $100 for the second, then $1000. after that put the addresses in the paper!
BUT arrangements should be made to help our older and disabled citizens get their walks shovled. |
thegoodsgt
Citizen
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 388
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 8:45 am: |
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just me,
Thinking "outside the box" will get you nowhere!
In all seriousness, you're onto something. Anyone who cannot shovel their sidewalk or doesn't want to shovel their sidewalk should be able to put their name on a list, which is then made available to entrepreneurs who want to make money. Or conversely, a list could be published that contains the names/numbers of anyone willing to shovel snow for a fee.
There's also the "good neighbor" approach of simply shoveling an elderly neighbor's sidewalk out of the goodness of one's heart. (I can already hear the laughter by some people at such an outrageous suggestion!)
Obviously the process should accomodate exceptions and extraordinary circumstances, something like an appeal process. |
newtoallthis
Citizen
Username: Newtoallthis
Post Number: 92
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 11:47 am: |
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Waldo makes a good point about the plows. I live on a street where our curb meets the sidewalk. I diligently shovel snow very early in the morning so my walk is cleared before I go to work. When I get home there's almost always an extra heap of snow/ice on the walk from the plows. Looks like I've done nothing. I'm in decent shape, but sometimes the compact frozen mess left on my sidewalk is unmoveable. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 996
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 12:05 pm: |
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newtoallthis: I have the same problem on my street and I know I would be mad as hell if I got a ticket or a warning because the plow pushed snow back onto my sidewalk. It is bad enough that I know when I get home I will have to shovel the driveway apron again and hope it is not too heavy from it being packed from the plow and frozen solid.
Last storm I had to clear a path on my lawn because the snow was too packed from the plow. |
Greg Spreeman
Citizen
Username: Mr_greg
Post Number: 13
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 1:20 pm: |
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Here is a question. The sidewalk in front of our house is in horrible shape. Even I trip on the cracks when I walk on it, as do the other passerbys. How do we get it replaced? Does the resident pay part of the fee? What is the wait time? |
Waldo
Citizen
Username: Discowaldo
Post Number: 46
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 3:09 pm: |
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From my understanding the resident has to fix their own sidewalks. |
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