| Author |
Message |
    
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 457
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 1, 2004 - 12:38 pm: |     |
We recently had our second floor "rewired" and new service panel with 200 amps put in. Total cost was almost $4000, but I thought it would be worth it as a clean sweep, with wired smoke detectors, no more blown fuses, etc.
So the work is "done" . It kind of trickled off slowly, with little thing like wiring cable to the cable outlet left up to us. Lots of wire snips left everywhere, bad labelling on breaker box, and a bunch of other stuff we were unhappy with.
The problem is, my wife was vacuuming the second floor and blew a breaker. EVERY outlet in both bedrooms went out. They are all wired to a "trough" in the attic, and I guess they all run off one 15 amp circuit, because I only had to reset one in the basement to turn the outlets back on.
Is that right? Seems like with a new wiring scheme and with a new panel, we wouldn't have so many outlets, in different rooms, on one circuit.
I haven't paid the final bill. This is the same genius who put the new panel directly (one inch) below a pipe that runs though the foundation to a hose outlet. had to cap the pipe to pass inspection.
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jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3436
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 1, 2004 - 12:48 pm: | |
Is it right? Likely legal.
There is a National Electric Code calculation that defines the max number of outlets allowed on a 15 amp. branch.
More to the point, it was stupid. These days 15 amp circuits are used mostly for lighting and outlet branches are 20 amp. Why? most brush upright vaccums draw 12 amps. So, have anything else going and, POP.
Then running several rooms of a single 15 amp branch is just stupid.
Can you just change the breaker from 15 to 20 amp.? Not with out knowing exactly the wire that makes up the full circut. 12-2 will support 20 amps, 14-2 will only support 15 amps. And if they re-used any existing old wire installed 20 or more years ago, it is likely 16-2 and is only rated for 10 amps.
For what you paid, you do not deserve this job. What other short cuts have been taken?
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic. |
wharfrat
Citizen
Username: Wharfrat
Post Number: 944
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 1, 2004 - 1:13 pm: | |
Just a thought-
If the upstairs is wired through a trough there are probably lots of wires. It's possible the electricians miswired.
It's worth having the elec. contractor come back to double check. |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 458
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 1, 2004 - 3:39 pm: | |
They ran new wire to the basement, and installed the trough new. it is overhead in the walk-in attic. It has a bunch of plugs with wires running out and up above the ceiling of the living space. I think the wires then drop into the walls to reach the outlets. Seems like 10 outlets in two rooms are on this one 15 amp circuit, which tripped in the basement.
Thanks for answering so quickly. it's nice to get some informed feedback. I hate getting into disputes with contractors I'm not sure if holding back money is a good idea, or should I have someone else take a look.
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Morrisa da Silva
Citizen
Username: Mod
Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 1, 2004 - 10:07 pm: | |
Do you care to say who did this work. We need similar work and would want to know who to avoid. |
tourne
Citizen
Username: Tourne
Post Number: 304
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 2, 2004 - 12:02 am: | |
In general, it seems the NEC allows 10 outlets on a 15 amp branch circuit and 13 on a 20 amp circuit max. But, the NEC is for the most part, outlining a minimum standard to follow. Probably not good to max out the number of outlets, especially at the price you paid. |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 460
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 2, 2004 - 12:54 pm: | |
Thanks for the technical info. I will do some testing to figure out exactly what is wired to what.
For name of contractor, private line me (I don't want to be unfair since I'm no expert). |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3440
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 2, 2004 - 5:56 pm: | |
Tourne,
Thanx for looking up the max outlet count in the NEC.
As you said that is a Max number. The real number should be based on the average and expected load calculations.
Look at a planned circuit and lay out what you would expect to be plugged into it. Say a bed room. How many lamps? Figure 1 amp for a 100 watt light bulb. A clock, radio, TV; figure .25 amps each. Then some other odd things from time to time such as a vaccuum. 6 to as high as 12 amps depending on the unit used.
That is how the circuts should be designed.
(Note: the actual calculation of amperage for a 100 Watt light bulb is a bit more complex and works out to be lower than 1 amp, but, 1 amp is a safe rule of thumb.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic. |
oots
Citizen
Username: Oots
Post Number: 112
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 2, 2004 - 6:49 pm: | |
did you have permits & an inspection?
oots |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3443
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 2, 2004 - 10:48 pm: | |
Good point, if the guy went over the NEC outlet limits, the township should be shamed and they need to bring the guy back to fix the problem.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic. |
Richard O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Roconn
Post Number: 144
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 3, 2004 - 8:44 am: | |
It sounds like they did some interesting (although legal) things when they did your re-wire.
They may not be willing (particularly if it passed inspection) to make corrections without payment, but if you're relatively handy, you may be able to make some of them yourself.
Getting another circuit or two to your attic may not be impossible. And if you can get even one more circuit to the trough in the attic, you can break up this 10 outlet collection.
Richard (ROC)
--Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic.--
--AIM: ROConn |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 91
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 3, 2004 - 10:33 am: | |
What is a "trough"?
A slave circuit panel?
TomR. |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3447
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 3, 2004 - 10:11 pm: | |
Since I did not use the terms, this is my guess:
A trough = A Raceway in the NEC.
A Raceway is a fixture where many layers of wiring are run.
A Slave circuit panel = A Subpanel in the NEC.
A Load center (holding circuit breakers for branches feed from a Main Load center.)
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic. |
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