| Author | Message | ||
     lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 660 Registered: 3-2002 |
Why in the world would Millburn students (who happen to be white since Millburn is a white town) want to sneak into Columbia? Millburn High is a great school (despite the drugs which are everywhere). Students from poor areas with violent and out of control schools (Newark and Irvington which tend to be Black towns) would rather go to Columbia because it's a good school. Argue the numbers all you want. The BOE ADMITS to 1% which is over 60 students. Those are the facts. What is racist about it, that they happen to be black or they happen to be illegal? This is a big hot button for those high horse, dying to scream racists types who live on the hill. And by the way, we all have jobs and with the taxes we pay, shouldn't have to police our schools to make up for lax registration standards. | ||
| harpo Citizen Username: Harpo Post Number: 1139 Registered: 6-2001 |
lumpyhead, according to mem, this issue isn't about race and shame on you for disgracefully dragging blacks into it. She's the one who says this is just as much about white students as black. I guess you're directing your rant and insults at her. I didn't realize she'd moved. What I've always wanted to know is: Why aren't people concerned about white students from Irvington and Newark, given how you've described the towns and their public schools? I've never heard anybody mention it. Hard to believe Irvington and Newark have no white school aged kids. I'm not for the police following schoolkids around. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 661 Registered: 3-2002 |
Harpo- You are the one that started wtih race: "You see black kids going to school and make up stories to fit your preconceived ideas". -Harpo Hint: Newark and Irvington are predominately black. | ||
| Jerseyfabulous Citizen Username: Jerseyfabulous Post Number: 66 Registered: 9-2003 |
Dave your a clown! I want the BOE to do exactly that. First day of school you need to show proof of residence or you can't come in. The paperwork can be passed in @ homeroom. There is no disputing the presence of illegal students why won't people address it. It's not like the schools have extra resources | ||
| Dave Citizen Username: Dave Post Number: 6325 Registered: 4-1998  |
Well, thanks for the useless update and personal attack. Seeya in a week! | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 1886 Registered: 5-2001  |
I think on paper many are perceived to be legal, but imho, people lie about where they lie (lay?). THere's also the fact about illegal housing where too many are under one roof, but this would be a TC issue which I'm hoping they are addressing. | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 4550 Registered: 5-2001 |
For the fifth, or maybe sixth time, why is it always the people who didn't attend school here or have kids who attended school here who deny an illegal student problem? I don't think Dave denies there is a problem, but he has bought into the "all the Newark and Irvington cabbies live in SOM."  | ||
| mikecappy Citizen Username: Mikecappy Post Number: 77 Registered: 10-2001 |
Harpo, I never said the kid getting out of the taxi was black? However, the kid who stole my car was and he was from Newark, and now he's in jail where he belongs. For all you liberals, I hope he is treated fairly and enjoys his warm bed, 3 squares, and cable TV while he endures the hardships of incarciration. Bring Jerseyfabulous back... | ||
| harpo Citizen Username: Harpo Post Number: 1140 Registered: 6-2001 |
lumpyhead, I'm not denying bringing race out into the open in this discussion or saying you are wrong to elaborate on it. I'm saying mem is being disingenuous or dense to keep popping into threads like this saying that these issues are intended to be as much about white kids as they are about black kids in the complainers' minds. They aren't. I'm sure I've posted this before but I'll post it again: The school has a right to keep kids who don't live in this district out of the schools and should have registration policies that keep that from happening. Housing laws should of course be enforced, as ffof points out. All that said, if the schools and towns enforce their rules in a discriminatory fashion (meaning, on the basis of skin color) the town could get sued and rightly so. Not every kid in the school districts who walks west to school should be treated like a suspect. And taxpayers also have to recognize that the costs of "zero tolerance" toward cheaters on the rules may be exorbitant. It may not be fiscally possible to have "fortress" schools. In addition, I don't think it's dirty pool to point out that many posts on MOL indicate that people may find some behavior unexceptional when done by whites (relatives taking in other relatives, taxi rides to school, kids visiting friends after school in bordering town etc.) and cause for unfounded accusations if done by blacks. It would be a help if people who feel that there is some crisis of illegals (i.e., you believe the numbers are greater than I have reason to believe they are) didn't muddy the waters by talking as if taking a Newark-owned taxi to school ought to be the subject of an investigation. It's really hard to believe it would merit an MOL post entiteld "illegal students" if the kid was white. | ||
| harpo Citizen Username: Harpo Post Number: 1141 Registered: 6-2001 |
bobk, For the fifth or sixth time, didn't Dave go to school here? Who is denying there are illegals? We are discussing the extent of the problem and how much it is worth to fix it. And perhaps you can answer the question since you have kids in school and are concerned about illegals: How many of them come to school in Yellow cabs? And finally, mikecappy doesn't have kids in school . Did he go to school here? yes, mikecappy, I know you didn't say that. What on earth has your stolen car got to do with anything? Maybe the kid who showed up to school in the taxi couldn't get a ride from his or her mother because the family car was stolen the night before. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 662 Registered: 3-2002 |
Fair enough but let's sum this beat to death issue like this: 1) There are illegal students that attend our schools. 2) The number is X 3) It's hard to determine where they sleep which is the guideline for residency. 4) It's a political hot potato because many of the illegals are black. 5) Some students live in town in illegal dwellings that are against code, ie. sleeping in the basement and other fire harzards. 6) It would cost too much to fix the problem so let it be. Economies of scale. 7) Our registration is much easier than other towns but that is because they other towns have illegal rules that have yet to be challenged. 8) The problem will only get worse as the school districts in eastern towns decline. My only issue is that in this day of technology, there must be a fool-proof way to check residency without being intrusive, a racist, a Nazi or whatever else you can think of. | ||
| Addy Citizen Username: Addy Post Number: 38 Registered: 12-2003  |
"4) It's a political hot potato because many of the illegals are black" That seems like conjecture. What about the Russian immigrants in Irvington who don't want Ivan Ivanovich in Irvington High? There's a large Hispanic population in Newark. etc. I can agree with the rest. Again, what's the history on solving this issue? Has anyone brought it up to the town fathers? | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 371 Registered: 9-2003  |
Go check the Education thread, and archives. TONS of history, tons of threads. Exhausting, and exhaustive. All that seems lacking is energy and focus to determine the facts, and thus whether the facts need any sort of action. One snipe fest after another... Lived here nearly one year, Parker Ave towards Irvington. I am comfortably numb (at the moment) which is not the same thing as convinced that a number of issues are all in my head. There are many disaffected newcomers so far as I can see, here and in local conversation. On the other a hand, a number of MOL-ers have graciously offered me insight on how to get involved in a more district-oriented way on issues. Personal matters put a temporary halt. Don't drink the online Kool-Aid. Accept that to some extent you've been bamboozled by the looks of the town when it comes to the crime rates that matter to you, school issues, etc. Find your neighbors and get involved. Doing the debate on MOL is largely fruitless as 2/3 of the folks will tell you how lucky you are to live here, or how it's not as bad as some other town. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 372 Registered: 9-2003 |
Sorta last thought: I've often thought it would be rather welcoming to have a section/thread on MOL called something like Buyer's Remorse. Over the last year, I've seen a number of posters start to talk about something (including my neighbor) and then get a bit shot-down. It would be nice to have a place where we could vent and share. Some of us would end of finding solutions perhaps through local involvement. Some of us might move. Personally, things like Newcomers Clubs don't get it when you're in the possibly remorseful mood. We get isolated and fester. I suspect, too, that a bunch of us live in the Maplewood cheap seats, so to speak, and feel more immediately affected by some kinds of crime, etc. Just a thought.... | ||
| mikecappy Citizen Username: Mikecappy Post Number: 78 Registered: 10-2001 |
Bravo, Cynicalgirl. It's east to pontificate about us "clowns" complaining about all the crap that goes on this part of town from the hill, but until you discover that a home invasion occured down the block, your car is stolen, an "alleged" sexual assult a few blocks down, illegal students walking down your block, you bet I have buyers remorse. It certainly isn't the portrait of "suburban utopia" painted in Money Magazine. | ||
| guessagain Citizen Username: Guessagain Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dave, you and Mikecappy exchanged some pretty harsh titles back there. Shouldn't you suspend him (and yourself) also? | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 373 Registered: 9-2003 |
I'm actually sorry there are so many of us. On the other hand, I really must say that a number of MOL folk have privatelined me, offered help, and all kinds of good things. Now, I rather figure it's up to me to figure out either how to change what I can, or move. But it is hard on your head to have some folks jump all over your case when you note what seems to you obvious, and ask why. My remorse has nothing to do with some of the really nice, interesting, helpful people I've met online. I think we need a local political party or something. A movement!! BTW, you've had buyer's remorse since 2001??? | ||
| harpo Citizen Username: Harpo Post Number: 1142 Registered: 6-2001 |
lumpyhead, Bravo. For all of our snarlfests, I've never once thought you couldn't think logically. 1) There are illegal students that attend our schools. -- I agree 2) The number is X -- I agree 3) It's hard to determine where they sleep which is the guideline for residency. -- Probably 4) It's a political hot potato because many of the illegals are black. -- Doesn't have to be. 5) Some students live in town in illegal dwellings that are against code, ie. sleeping in the basement and other fire hazards. -- Yes, but that may be true all over town and for all skin colors. 6) It would cost too much to fix the problem so let it be. Economies of scale. -- No. It might cost too much but town officials should be able to do a cost/benefit analysis on this. That said, you still need a strict public policy against illegals and root out those you can without breaking the bank. 7) Our registration is much easier than other towns but that is because they other towns have illegal rules that have yet to be challenged. -- I don't know. 8) The problem will only get worse as the school districts in eastern towns decline. -- I don't know. But the suspicions will remain and be corrosive as long as we fund schools through local property taxes, and schools to the east will probably decline as long as we fund schools through local property taxes. I don't know that there is a fool-proof way to check residency without being intrusive, a racist, a Nazi or a profligate, pound-foolish spender. Almost all systems can be scammed. Also, people in comfortable, conventional circumstances sometimes don't quite understand how difficult it can be for people in less fortunate circumstances to come up with the documentation we take for granted. The schools have legal obligations to kids and can't make up rules that disproportionately and negatively impact poorer people or families in crisis who actually do have a right to attend. My big issue is spending town money to put an unsubtantiated rumor to rest and harassing schoolchildren in the process. There are some people who seem to think that satisfying their curiosity or disproving their suspicions should be a town priority. Not only do I resent taking my tax money for such an exercise, I really think it's wrong to put any schoolaged child who is doing nothing more than attending school under suspicion unless you are pretty damn sure you have rock solid cause to be suspicious. I think it would be an outrage to stalk these kids or go into their houses to prove they aren't illegal and then have MOL'ers huff: Well, I guess we were wrong but you had to prove it. I don't think they'd say that if it was their kids and their families. I know there are some people who think the 'X' number creates a provable unfair tax burden. I don't at present because I've talked to elected officials. For me to be persuaded to spend money that we could be spending on education itself, I'd have to be shown hard evidence beyond "My kid in schools tells me there are hundreds" or "I saw a kid get out of a Newark-owned taxi and go into a school one day." The schools should have a workable, strict publicly known registration policy even if there isn't a single illegal student at present. I mean, schools probably need to know where children live for a lot of reasons, some in the students' and parents' own interests. Work on that first if it's a problem. | ||
| just me fromsouthorange Citizen Username: Jmfromsorange Post Number: 63 Registered: 7-2003 |
harpo- you were the first one to say anything about the race of the kids. the original poster didn't even mention the race of the kids in the taxi. | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 1281 Registered: 6-2001 |
Ok, but in his most recent post, (just a few up) he suggests that he's discovered "illegal students walking down [his] block." He's not the first to make such comments. Pray tell, what does an illegal student look like? |
