| Author | Message | ||
     sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 10688 Registered: 10-2001  |
Harpo, I was just wondering: when you retire to the ladies room to powder your nose, do you take your culturally elite glasses off or is it okay if they're left on? P.S. Please stop scratching the chalk board with your nails when you author your posts. The blood curdling shrieking sound is waking up my doggie. Thankey. ---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <- The Cafe Sbenois is pleased to announce that a fresh batch of Yumsters just arrived thanks to the pinpoint accuracy of the Sbenois Deer Howitzer. Stop in today and ask for one with cheese. | ||
| Dave Citizen Username: Dave Post Number: 6331 Registered: 4-1998  |
"Pray tell, what does an illegal student look like?" Thick glasses and a copy of Marx's Das Kapital? | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 2721 Registered: 5-2001  |
Common sense: It's breaking the law, no matter what color the kids are. When I was at CHS, I had friends that didn't belong there. If you want to educate the world, than change the laws. How dense is that? Oh, a good thing to spend money saved from not paying the share fair of taxes is a major makeover. Queer Eye For the .....whatever. | ||
| harpo Citizen Username: Harpo Post Number: 1144 Registered: 6-2001 |
justmefromso: We've already established that and I haven't denied it. Sbenois, I don't wear make up and don't believe any self-respecting dog would sleep at your house. | ||
| harpo Citizen Username: Harpo Post Number: 1145 Registered: 6-2001 |
dave, see you in a week . . . or more! | ||
| doublea Citizen Username: Doublea Post Number: 427 Registered: 3-2003 |
Maybe this should be the subject of a new thread (and maybe not). Isn't a big part of the problem, whether real or perceived, the school districts in eastern towns, as mentioned above? Newark receives approximately 95% of its school funding from the state. It spends approximately $14,000 per student. Newark teachers have just negotiated a new contract which makes them the highest paid in the state. And yet, by most accounts, the Abbott Schools have been a failure. Is there anything we can do or should do? I certainly don't have the answer, and I don't know if anybody does. And maybe that's the real problem. | ||
| sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 10689 Registered: 10-2001 |
I guess you're (not) reading my posts again huh?  ---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <- The Cafe Sbenois is pleased to announce that a fresh batch of Yumsters just arrived thanks to the pinpoint accuracy of the Sbenois Deer Howitzer. Stop in today and ask for one with cheese. | ||
| sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 10690 Registered: 10-2001 |
P.S. My doggie wants to know if I can count on your vote. ---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <- The Cafe Sbenois is pleased to announce that a fresh batch of Yumsters just arrived thanks to the pinpoint accuracy of the Sbenois Deer Howitzer. Stop in today and ask for one with cheese. | ||
| wharfrat Citizen Username: Wharfrat Post Number: 958 Registered: 6-2001 |
Newark teachers have just negotiated a new contract which makes them the highest paid in the state. Doublea- Your statement is factually incorrect. Go to the Star Ledger archive link on NJ.Com for the correct info. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 374 Registered: 9-2003  |
Check out (at least) the thread called "Illegal Students...Again" in Education. 130 posts and multiple archives. Amongst the strategies to even determine the number, and validate: 1. Reregistration annually -- or, just at the start of Middle and High School as that's where it appears to really kick in, 2. Provide a widely advertised contact name/number to report anonymously, 3. District investigation of all suspected illegal students (PC term is "guest students"). Other towns apparently have done this. Concerns with this appear to be: 1. appearance or reality of racism motivator, 2. belief in sharing the wealth, and 3. idea that cost wouldn't yield an appropriate benefit. My feeling is that until the real numbers are known, one cannot do cost/benefit. Complicating factor is, depending upon the needs of the student, the loss per student is either something like $10K per, or considerably more if the student requires special education. Softer costs may be involved. After all that I've read, I do begin the think that many do not want to know the real number because it might suggest action. I personally favor reregistration and investigation where appropriate. The mystery around this is just too divisive. I also think this town should do some legitimate "customer satisfaction" surveying/polling (as some firm did in Verona) to get a better handle on what needs to be done. I think the results will vary wildly by neighborhood. And I do think the people in my neck of the woods, of all colors, are the least satisfied especially if they moved her in the last few years. mikecappy's remarks are typical based on my limited knowlege. Those of us over here are least likely to have the "cool" Maplewood houses, most likely to experience personal/property crime, most likely to have our kids in Clinton, most likely to be financially strapped just to move here and have paid 1/4 to 1/3 more than longer time residents did for their houses. In some ways, the conflict looks a lot like working class v ghetto conflicts in Philly and elsewhere where the working class worked/works hard to scrape themselves into a house, the ghetto is intruding, and the more liberal folks who don't experience the friction say "tut, tut, aren't we economically diverse, we must take care of our fellow man..." | ||
| clkelley Citizen Username: Clkelley Post Number: 88 Registered: 6-2002 |
harpo makes a good point - as long as we fund schools via local property taxes, this "problem" will never go away. If education were funded in a more rational way, we wouldn't have "interlopers" because their own school systems would be in much better shape. And we wouldn't care if they did come here. I think what bugs people the most is the perceived tax burden imposed by these kids. It seems to be such a hot issue in Maplewood/SO because we are a fairly well-off district, bordering on some very not-well-off districts. In how many other industrialized countries is education funded primarily by LOCAL property taxes? (I know that in some Canadian provinces, property taxes pay for education but the taxes go into a big provincial pot for disbursement across the entire province. But that seems different to me than having the municipalities pay for their own schools via property taxes.) I don't know how to go about finding this information. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 1888 Registered: 5-2001  |
socialized education? No thanks. We'd be screwed if we depended on the state 100%. Imagine if it were an income tax and Newark and Trenton and Camden and Podunk would be getting the lion's share of the bucks but they'd still be piss poor districts. (They already spend $5000 more per student than we do) We'd all be boiling mad. In Vermont they went to a state funded public edu system and those districts who had class acts for schools got screwed. And I don't think we should be blind...Our schools are excellent as compared to the whole dang state, but if you think we have problems now....ooooh boy, I don't want to think about it. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 375 Registered: 9-2003 |
Look, other US states not that far from here don't make the mess of things that NJ seems to. Skip looking at other countries, and look at other states in the NE. I think we have the illusion of local control, but not the reality.... | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 1892 Registered: 5-2001 |
Also, if we could get rid of county government - oh woe is me, I won't be holding my breath - we could lower all our taxes, and then we might not feel so bad about the school budget. Oh wait, we were talking about illegal students...sorry. A friend in Millburn says that the BOE will send someone to "sleep at the doorstep" of any potentially illegal student. Haven't heard of any lawsuits there. | ||
| clkelley Citizen Username: Clkelley Post Number: 90 Registered: 6-2002 |
ffof, I'm not talking about "socialized" education, just changing the locus of the funding. Nor am I necessarily even advocating for changing to a state-funded rather than locally-funded system. (although I wouldn't rule it out, out of hand ... sure it could lead to a lowering of quality overall, but not if adequate funding were allocated. Ask the Europeans how they do it. I'm not saying it would be easy, or even desirable at this point, but it's worth thinking about.) However I AM pointing out that with the current system, there are going to be people from the outside "sneaking in." You might be able to cut it down a bit, but never really eliminate it. If I were a poor parent who could only afford to live in a crummy school district, but I saw some clear way to sneak my kid into a better neighboring district, I'd probably at least give it some serious thought. That's all I'm really saying - the way things are at this point in time, there is a huge temptation to cross school district boundaries. | ||
| tip Citizen Username: Tip Post Number: 158 Registered: 6-2001 |
As I recall most of the illegal students hopped on the bus outside CHS. I believe it was the #31 bus. Very blatantly I might add. Didn't even try to hide it. Dave, if you went through the school system you should know this. Not sure if that bus still exists...maybe that's the deal with the cabs. Yes, the district has changed...however, the issue of illegal students has never gone away. As always, someone turns this issue into a racial thing.....very tiresome.........Stop it....... | ||
| tip Citizen Username: Tip Post Number: 159 Registered: 6-2001 |
One more thing....I believe students were identified in the 90's and nobody did anything about it because it wasn't politically correct. Can anyone elaborate on this? I don't recall the specifics; however, I was told this by someone extremely close to the town administrator at the time. | ||
| chrisd Citizen Username: Chrisd Post Number: 93 Registered: 5-2001 |
I remember, tip. Montrose area pals that got off at the border would tell you how many kids rode on into Vailsburg. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 2722 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks Tip. I think there might have been many CHS students that weren't hip to the scenario. I had two good friends from SO with relatives in East Orange and Newark, that simply used my friends' parents' addresses to attend Columbia. For the most part they were OK kids, except one girl was a real jerk, she used to try to beat me up in the ladies room. Anyway, that's my experience. | ||
| Tom Reingold Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 2028 Registered: 1-2003  |
To anyone who is on the making or receiving end of the racist accusation, I say this. If Joe Blow says, "I saw a black kid walking after school towards the Irvington border, so he must be an illegal student," that is not proof that Joe Blow is racist. But you know what? It's also not proof that he isn't. clkelley, I don't think more rational funding is enough to fix the problems in the bad school districts, even though I favor it. Newark and Irvington's problems probably run deeper than just money problems. ffof, taxes for schools are already a socialist system, as most government services are. It's true that improving the poorer districts risks taking money away from the richer ones. What choice do we have? Are you taking the attitude of "I got me mine, so leave me alone"? Well, perhaps we can whip up a win-win solution, to use an overused term, but I don't know what it would be. Do you? We live in a society, not just a school district, so we must consider our county, state, and country. If we have a better district than our neighbors, you can be sure there will be kids sneaking in, just as surely as air will move from high pressure centers to low pressure centers. I do favor measures to try to prevent that, but it's a force of nature to be reckoned with. One way to do that is to ensure that everyone's schools are adequate. Improving the situation for the most needy while not robbing the better off is a tough problem, isn't it? Tom Reingold the prissy-pants There is nothing |
