| Author |
Message |
    
Cowboy
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 343
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:37 pm: |     |
If our justice system worked the way it ought to work, we would not only execute Carlie's killer, we would do it quickly. If we want to keep our children safe, if we want to reclaim the freedom of our neighborhoods, we need to start now. This case can provide the opportunity to fix the problem. We can start by routinely and swiftly executing any kidnapper who kills one of our kids.
Unfortunately, if Smith were sentenced to death now, it could, according to David Fussel, president of the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, "take 10 to 15 years for the sentence to be carried out, depending on the amount and complexity of the appeals."
http://www.e-thepeople.org/article/29347/view
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tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2244
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:39 pm: | |
When it comes to protecting society, what is the difference between execution and life without parole? |
Ruck1977
Citizen
Username: Ruck1977
Post Number: 35
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:45 pm: | |
no factual basis, just throwing this out to tjohn. I have heard of cases where funding expired for prision programs, or prisions in general. These prisoners were released back into society.
I am sure some logic was applied to this as to find other prisions for those higher up on the felony chain, but is something like this even a possiblity? (without arguing for or against both points) |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2247
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:48 pm: | |
I'm on the fence when it comes to the death penalty. I think it is critical to establish guilt in capital cases beyond a shred of doubt. I see no value in rushing the process. And above all, I reject the deterrent argument. I think the only true thing about the death penalty is that the rate of recidivism among those executed is very low. |
Ruck1977
Citizen
Username: Ruck1977
Post Number: 36
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:56 pm: | |
I too, am on the fence. The logical side of me says and eye for eye, and coule also argue deterrence. The religous side of me is more inclined to say, well, God is the judge and there can be too many flaws in the justice system for us to ever know for sure. Most of me though feels that people who hurt children should be punished swiftly.
How many of us are even afraid to talk to children for fear of being accused of something, or having our society think we are molestors or something. These people who commit these crimes against children have not only committed the crime, but they have made us all think twice about being nice to children of all things! |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4627
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 1:04 pm: | |
In theroy I don't have a problem with the death penalty. However, the practice sucks. Every year people are released from death row because their convictions are overturned.
I think Illinois is a good example. A journalism professor at Northwestern and his students managed to produce evidence that led to the release of something like 8% of the inmates on death row. This is kind of scary. These weren't technacalities but involved suppressed evidence, lying witnesses, etc. |
Cowboy
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 347
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 1:21 pm: | |
So where does all this take us regarding Carlie Brucia’s Killer? |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2249
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 1:24 pm: | |
Where it takes us is that death sentences should not be rushed. |
Ruck1977
Citizen
Username: Ruck1977
Post Number: 38
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 1:30 pm: | |
Why dont' we ask him to prove his innocense.
I can't say I know all the details, but since this guy is a repeat offender, why not shift the burden of proof. He has 1 month to prove he is innocent.If he can't save himself (or his lawyers for that matter)...he has himself to blame...
of course assuming we are talking about a ficticious justice system! |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4628
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 1:34 pm: | |
I think it is fairly safe to assume that he will not be granted bail and that he will be held in a secure facility until he is executed, prisons don't give convicted murderers a reduced sentence to free up space. I think we are talking about, or at least I am, punnishment, not revenge.
Cowboy, if you believe in vigilante justice get a few buds together, go to Florida, break him out and then hang him. 
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Cowboy
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 349
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 1:50 pm: | |
Bobk, I do not believe in vigilante justice. I do however find enough evidence available to convict this Smith character of being Carlie Brucia’s Killer.
Why not swiftly execute this man? Because the court system is more interested in providing lawyers with additional work than it is in seeing that justice is done swiftly. That's what it boils down to. Watch. |
mikecappy
Citizen
Username: Mikecappy
Post Number: 81
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 2:21 pm: | |
The difference between the death penalty and life without parole is over $50 per day. For 40 years, that is over &700,000 to shelter and feed these rats. $27 million per year! A rope cost a few bucks, and is reusable! Do the math. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4629
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 2:22 pm: | |
Cowboy, you are setting yourself up as judge and jury on this. Have you reviewed the evidence, interogated the witnesses, visited the crime scene, checked the alibis? Don't think so.
Every week people are arrested, tried and convicted of crimes that it later turns out they weren't involved with. IMHO if we are going to execute people there is an obligation to make damn sure they are convictably guilty of the crime.
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Cowboy
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 352
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 3:59 pm: | |
Bobk I suspect that you are (once again) excessive in your desire to over analyze. Other than just giving yourself another chance to have the last word, why not simply admit that sometimes issues are black and white.
Guilt or innocent can sometimes be obtained swiftly. We don't need to resort to obscuring the facts. Lawyers do not always need to be given excessive amounts of time and (therefore money) to sift through the evidence.
Or do you think society at large can only benefit from this man, Smith, being provided with years to muster a defense?
Who pays? And I'm not speaking solely of the money. Perhaps the death penalty no longer carries with it the deterents it once did. Gee, I wonder why. |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 364
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 4:40 pm: | |
The only good thing about this situation , is that it took place in Florida. He will die & the world will be a better place. |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 119
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 5:23 pm: | |
Cowboy, et al.,
Hope you never get arrested for something you didn't do.
TomR.
PS Cowboy, would you send me a copy of the "objectionable" picture you had tried to tie to your screen name as an attachment via PM. Just curious. |
Waldo
Citizen
Username: Discowaldo
Post Number: 41
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 5:47 pm: | |
I agree with bobk and tjohn. If you are going to end a persons life you better be positive he's the one that committed the crime. There has been numerous accounts of men sitting on death row before the real killer is caught and that man is released. Think if they sped up the process, there would be many innocent men killed. Then where does that place the justice system? They just killed an innocent man, how can we put faith in a system like that. |
Maplewoody
Citizen
Username: Maplewoody
Post Number: 462
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 8:10 pm: | |
I think Jayson Williams is GUILTY too of shooting his chauffer! He should fry/hang too!
Or he chould be put into a pit with ravenous blood hungry pit bulls! |
Maplemom
Citizen
Username: Maplemom
Post Number: 93
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 8:43 pm: | |
Oh, don't worry. He will be treated (hopefully) worse than Carlie was treated when he gets to Prison. Death would be a vacation. By the way, we have PROOF of him stealing her on video. And...almost proof of him breaking her (DNA in his car). Fast or slow he's not getting off.
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sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10724
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 8:53 pm: | |
This isn't complicated.
FRY THE BASTARD
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
The Cafe Sbenois is pleased to announce that a fresh batch of Yumsters just arrived thanks to the pinpoint accuracy of the Sbenois Deer Howitzer. Stop in today and ask for one with cheese.
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tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2256
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 9:10 pm: | |
Let's not pretend that capital punishment deters crimes of passion such as murder. Most people who commit murder are either doing so in a fit of rage or have a twisted mind. In either case, I doubt that they are too worried about the consequences of getting caught.
OTOH, the death penalty might well deter the crimes of a Kenneth Lay or Kozlowski. |
ashear
Citizen
Username: Ashear
Post Number: 958
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 11:25 am: | |
How do we decide which are the "easy" cases where we can execute people without all the legal niceties (legal niceties that still result in innocent people on death row). Are the easy cases ones with confessions? But a number of people have been let off death row because of false confessions. So what would be "enough."
As to the cost of the death penalty v. life in prison, death is more expensive. There are a number of reasons for this including the fact that a death case requires two trials (one on guilty the other on penalty), the numerous appeals that are filed when a person's life is on the line, and the additional lawyer and investigator costs. More info can be found here http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7#From%20DPIC
Of course, we could do it cheaper if we were okay with executing some innocent people now and then. |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 1166
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 1:35 pm: | |
here's really what should happen.
the parents get an hour with him in a room and with a lead pipe - beat him to death.
There is. |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 397
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 1:38 pm: | |
I agree with buzzsaw. I try to be pc about the death penalty, life imprisonment, but if someone did that to my daughter, I'd rather buzzsaw's solution and answer for it in a higher court in the afterlife .... |
kathy
Citizen
Username: Kathy
Post Number: 747
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 4:51 pm: | |
"If someone did that to my daughter...." is not about justice; it is about vengeance. Understandable, but not what the justice system is about.
Unfortunately Cowboy doesn't seem to be clear on the difference. |
lumpynose
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 690
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 6:18 pm: | |
All we know so far is that he killed her. We don't know how she suffered and what other atrocities this man did to this eleven year old. |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 399
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 7:20 pm: | |
I'm ok with vengence under certain circumstances. I cannot defend it philosophically -- I'm just saying what I would do were someone to kill my child, quickly and intentionally or slowly and disgustingly. Same for my husband, and my sister.
I can't recall the case, but some years back, some mother shot the perp in the courtroom after a less than death sentence. I seem to recall he'd molested and killed her kid. That's pretty much where I'm at. I'm not saying build the justice system on it, I'm just saying I would find a way. And gladly serve the time afterwards, if it came to it. |
Unhinged
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2756
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 4:41 pm: | |
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/essex/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1076656511140360.xml |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 506
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 7:23 pm: | |
It is obvious that the death penalty can't be justified as a general practice based on the slam dunk cases. You've got to sell it on the hardest cases. Like this one:
Marcellius Bradford, age 17 in 1988, was accused of a rape and murder. Before his questioning by Cook County, Illinois police ended, he had not only confessed, but also implicated three other teens, one of whom also confessed. It was not until November of 2001 that DNA evidence conclusively proved that they were innocent. What is most remarkable is that of the roughly 100 people who have been similarly exonerated owing to DNA tests, roughly 20% had originally been convicted after confessing.
Your challenge - demonstrate how "it's simple - fry em" would have served justice in this case. I love these high level debates! If you fail I will suspect that the "It's simple - fry em" argument is a self-serving moral security blanket rather than an effort at moral thought. If you succeed, I'll embrace the death penalty.
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tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2284
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 7:32 pm: | |
That's just in Illinois. In Texas, the criminal justice system is much less error-prone. |
anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 972
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 5:14 pm: | |
If the wrong person is executed it means that the real killer gets away with it.
So are you in favor of executing the person who killed Carlie Brucia or the person who is accused of it. Should guilt be determined through due process or are we just going to let the news media decide who's guilty? |
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