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Message |
    
bklyntonj
Citizen
Username: Bklyntonj
Post Number: 178
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 8:43 am: |     |
This is a myth that's proven more and more each day to be a fact; CHS aint what it used to be. All I here now is how the increase in black students along with the flight of white students has bought down the prestige and academic achievement of CHS. Of course, not just any black students, but students who come from backgrounds that are not reinforcing education by example.
I will admit, I get off the train in the evening coming from NYC and its obvious that Maplewood is a town that's majority white. While enrollment in CHS is significantly majority black. I know that the population of black/white school age children plays a part in this, but not enough to make the difference as high as it is.
Living right off of Parker Av going towards Boyden Av, you would think Maplewood is majority black by looking at the kids walking home from CHS. You would also think that their destiny is in making license plates the way people cringe when they walk past their houses and by how many police cars patrol the area. Most black parents won't even consider sending their kids to CHS now (what's that all about?)
Is the standard and curriculum of CHS sunk that low? Is it because of less intellectual or "academically-inclined" flight to Maplewood? Is CHS just a has been, doomed to gang activity, drugs and violence? What's the deal here? |
vor
Citizen
Username: Vor
Post Number: 174
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 8:53 am: | |
I have one question...
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Everything about this post is offensive and absurd.
Here's hoping bklyntonj soon becomes njtobklyn
and I swore I would never be baited!! Oh, well. |
Diversity Man
Citizen
Username: Deadwhitemale
Post Number: 631
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 10:26 am: | |
Are his facts correct, but his conclusions wrong?
Does bkly not live off Parker, are the kids' backgrounds not you have to work to get a good education, are there floods of White kids walking past his door, are there RMPs in the street, class race ratios skewed?
What is factually wrong, and which are vented opinion?
DWM
PS: Try Eastern District HS, or Erasmus on for comparison.
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vor
Citizen
Username: Vor
Post Number: 176
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 12:20 pm: | |
I will not take the bait. I will not take the bait. I will not take the bait. I will not take the bait. I will not take the bait. I will not take the bait. I will not take the bait. I will not take the bait. I will not take the bait. I will not take the bait. I will not take the bait |
kathy
Citizen
Username: Kathy
Post Number: 756
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 1:58 pm: | |
People have been saying "CHS isn't what it used to be" for decades. It isn't clear to me that CHS was ever what it used to be, whatever that was.
The only facts that I see in bklyn's post are that he sees mostly white people getting off the train, and he sees mostly black students walking by his house after school. At least, I am not in a position to dispute what he sees. The rest of his post is pure speculation. Can he tell from looking at a child how much that child's family values education? If his neighbors cringe when a black child walks by, is that the child's fault?
I agree with vor: "Everything about this post is offensive and absurd." |
Diversity Man
Citizen
Username: Deadwhitemale
Post Number: 632
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 7:22 pm: | |
Maybe the White professionals adopted the Black kids?
It is no secret that the bottom half of the HS class ain't exactly where the Whites are overrepresented.
What's wrong in admitting there is a problem, and the parents are to blame?
DWM
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ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1951
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 8:19 am: | |
divman- no problem talking about the probs, as you know.
so let's answer brkltonj's questions:
"Is the standard and curriculum of CHS sunk that low?"
No. standards and curriculum (and excellent teachers) have remained at a high, but there are a fair number of "underachievers" that seem to pre-occupy the boe and keep averages low.
"Is it because of less intellectual or "academically-inclined" flight to Maplewood?"
the illegal student issue is up for grabs, but even if it's 100, it's hard to know if it's maplewood's own who are the underachievers or not. MSO has about the same percentage of kids who go to private schoools as any other town in the area - something like 8%
" Is CHS just a has been, doomed to gang activity, drugs and violence?"
CHS is not a has been. Read the papers about all the endless successes or get your ass to the events listed on "the Rise of Columbia" thread. Gang activity? well there may be some wanna bes but Pollack is strong on behavior issues and from personal experience (my kid) there are no problems which prevent her from having an excellent education.
You want drugs? Get thee to Millburn High School. Violence? I don't have any statistics. Someone did just tell me about some asian gang violence though from Livingston HS.
"What's the deal here?"
The deal is that you have to stop worrying about the baggy prison clothes look and call the cops if you see a problem. Hey, I hate it to but I have hope that fashion trends are changin'! Puffy et al are now donning suits - so says the Times! |
jacman
Citizen
Username: Jacman
Post Number: 171
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 2:57 pm: | |
Although I affirm the tenor of ffof's post, I have to issue a caveat to one part:
""Is the standard and curriculum of CHS sunk that low?"
No. standards and curriculum (and excellent teachers) have remained at a high, but there are a fair number of "underachievers" that seem to pre-occupy the boe and keep averages low.""
Due to budget cuts, Columbia's elective offerings have been diminished significantly, and this lack of classes offered to students is at the root of many other problems, discipline issues most dramatically.
Courses are not available, so students are not in classes but are wandering the halls instead. A "mall culture" is being created that exacerbates the achievement gap. At best, this has resulted in a lack of seriousness about academic achievement for many students and at worst has led to severe behavioral infractions.
The highest achieving kids are generally not affected yet because they (and their parents) are very demanding. AP courses have not been eliminated. It's not these kids that I am worried about. It's the mainstream kid who is not being motivated.
Ultimately, however, everyone will be affected because the climate of the school will change. We see this already with the lack of civility and respect in the halls.
Most schools in our area are still offering a full nine-period day with an impressive variety of elective courses. Proper distribution of resources within our budgetary parameters would result in our being able to offer what our kids need, too.
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Marvin Gardens
Citizen
Username: Marvin_gardens
Post Number: 68
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 10:32 pm: | |
All I here now is
That's all you "here" ??? Well, it doesn't look like Brooklyn HS was much to write home about either.
It's not that the illegal students are Black it's that they are poor. They just happen to be Black. I think there must be quite a few illegal students at CHS because like you said, I see mostly white adults around town but I only see packs of Black kids walking near the school and I can't imagine it's because all the white kids are in the library studying.
_______________
Do Not Pass Go |
Diversity Man
Citizen
Username: Deadwhitemale
Post Number: 635
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 2:46 pm: | |
Lack of civility in CHS halls confirmed by offspring.
mainly trash-talk, between those culturally focussed on trash-talk.
Hardly does a fist fly, I am told.
Punishment is swift, but, in my opinion, not sufficient.
But, it is sure.
DWM |
eab
Citizen
Username: Eab
Post Number: 29
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 7:02 pm: | |
Gee, I do remember back to 1970 -1974 when my friends and I took our long shaggy hair, overlong bell-bottom jeans, peace stickers adorning our books down the street to school, laughing loudly at the stricken look on the faces of the inflexibly narrow-minded people who shrank in fear of us "hippies".
Funny, I expect many of these "hippies" live along Parker now... please recognize the need for teens to piss off the generation in charge. Don't overreact to clothes and language.
On the other hand, if your teen is walking home in that fun group at 3:10, what club isn't he/she joining? What study group isn't he/she a part of? What teacher didn't he/she bother to go see for a little extra help?
The teens you see at 3:10 may be the ones who are not sampling all of what CHS has to offer. |
bklyntonj
Citizen
Username: Bklyntonj
Post Number: 183
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 7:23 pm: | |
ffof, I admire your "cheerleader" response and I hope that your comments become a reality in the near future and remain constant.
jacman, you seem to be the most realistic of all. I believe your comments are a true observation of what's going on at CHS. And, whenever things are on the decline, people start looking for a scapegoat...
I'm sure you all get my point.
Last but not least, Marvin Gardens. I'm sure there's not much to write home about Brooklyn HS since there is no Brooklyn HS. And as far as your comment, "It's not that the illegal students are Black it's that they are poor. They just happen to be Black." Are you serious???
What are you growing and smoking in that garden Marvin? |
bklyntonj
Citizen
Username: Bklyntonj
Post Number: 184
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 7:27 pm: | |
Oh yeah Diversity Man, why are you the only one listening to what I'm saying instead of judging how I'm saying it? |
Marvin Gardens
Citizen
Username: Marvin_gardens
Post Number: 69
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 11:09 pm: | |
Are you serious???
I am serious. The fact that they are Black is not the problem. You're making the mistake of blaming their being Black as the source of your contempt when what you don't like is their behavior which is a result of their circumstances of being poor and uneducated. Unless of course, you really just dislike them for no other reason than because they are Black.
_______________
Do Not Pass Go |
Diversity Man
Citizen
Username: Deadwhitemale
Post Number: 637
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 9:33 am: | |
Marvin plays the race card, prematurely.
Analyze first, then play the always available, and frequently used race card when there is no other answer.
The problems read like the result of a superintendent and board of education over-focussed on "understanding" the worst offenders, at the expense of classroom size and class offerings to those who play by the rules, punishing them and their parents for conforming to societal norms.
In other words, levelling downwards, which in district is called "delevelling."
DWM
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bklyntonj
Citizen
Username: Bklyntonj
Post Number: 185
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 9:41 am: | |
D-man, once again you're right on point. This conversation truly represents the answer to so many other threads in this category of education.
Marvin, again as D-man put it, you've jumped to the race card. Here is the exact quote from my first post, "Of course, not just any black students, but students who come from backgrounds that are not reinforcing education by example." This clearly does not include all blacks. It also targets what type of increase in population we have here in Maplewood.
Let's face it, we all want a better life for our family. When we can afford to move to a better environment and quality of life, we'll do it, no matter what our background. But money does not equal acceptance, intelligence, refinement or good behavior. It equals opportunity.
Now Marvin, here's a basic history lesson for you. How do you cripple a people? You remove their ability to function economically or become literate. Even though slavery and the Holocaust as we know them are over, the effects and beliefs of people are still strong.
Think about it this way, if you were a bully who opened a gun shop and all of a sudden the people you bullyed started flooding your store to buy guns, would you be so eager to sell them guns?
Willie Lynch still lives!
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infamousp122
Citizen
Username: Infamousp122
Post Number: 20
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 10:23 pm: | |
im a 16 year old male who used to live in south orange and moved to brooklyn, ny last summer (due to high property taxes). i attended chs and compared to the schools in brooklyn, chs is a VERY good school. i attend james madison high school in brooklyn, which a prodominatly white school. it has a higher drop out, suspension rate and a lower college acceptance than chs. i and also believe chs SAT scores are better. almost ALL nyc high schools are severly overcrowded (4000+ students in old buildings designed for 1200 people). chs is MUCH more confortable to learn in and it has better classes because chs received more funding that most nyc schools. |
guessagain
Citizen
Username: Guessagain
Post Number: 25
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 11:33 pm: | |
Well Infamous, I guess you and your parents are learning that you get what you pay for. |
viva
Citizen
Username: Viva
Post Number: 361
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 11:45 am: | |
infamous
as a graduate of the nyc public school system i will tell you that if you keep your own self-expectations high and distinguish yourself from the masses through hard work and the right attitude you will will be successful. Good luck! |
Diversity Man
Citizen
Username: Deadwhitemale
Post Number: 646
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 2:45 pm: | |
The schools in brooklyn are a paradigm for all that is wrong in public education.
The special admission schools are the exception.
City schools are predictors for the rest of us when it comes to curriculum, behavioral standards, social promotion, self-esteem first, accountability last, and
drive so many parents out to suburbia.
If we just follow: decentralization, (i.e., post 1969 teacher's strike, Rhody McCoy, and the like = local district control -- amateurs with power, just like our local board of education), extraordinary union power (post strikes in the 60's in City, and all I can remember is 1990 strike here) social promotion, behavioral standards accepting of foul mouthed, in your face kids who can not be expelled,
you have the future, just delayed.
You can succeed there, and it is badge of honor if you do.
We have a window of opportunity, plus many good parents and students, fighting the good fight.
DWM |
Diversity Man
Citizen
Username: Deadwhitemale
Post Number: 647
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 2:46 pm: | |
And, Madison has had a fine basketball team since the 60's.
Clobbered Francis Lewis back then, if I remember correctly.
DWM |
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