| Author | Message | ||
     musicme Citizen Username: Musicme Post Number: 459 Registered: 5-2001  |
A bit of Schindler's legacy, close to home. http://www.ospac.org/history.htm | ||
| finnegan Citizen Username: Finnegan Post Number: 65 Registered: 6-2001 |
Just to shift attention back to Mel Gibson, bobk, I think you're quite right about Gibson belonging to a splinter-sect (as Cato Nova said above), but just fyi, The Second Vatican Council was in session from 1962-1965. The Catholic church never taught as "dogma" that the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus and therefore should be persecuted, although the scriptures were commonly interpreted that way. The document from Vatican II that repudiated blaming the Jews for the death of Jesus is called Nostra Aetate or "Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions." It reads in part, "what happened in His(Jesus's) passion cannot be blamed upon all the Jews then living, without distinction, nor upon the Jews of today...The Church...deplores the hatred, persecutions, and displays of anti-Semitism directed against the Jews at any time and from any source." Not that Gibson would care since he rejects the teachings of this Ecumenical Council. | ||
| michael Citizen Username: Michael Post Number: 479 Registered: 1-2002 |
Remind me to forever ignore any of your "insights". Say what you want about Mel, the movie, the Catholic Church, but jeez.... Your character reading skills bite.  | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 4720 Registered: 5-2001 |
Finnegan, thanks for the corrections. When I was a kid in Albany, NY the block we lived on had a number of Catholic kids who attended the local parish school. They taunted the one Jewish kid on the block constantly with the Mantra, "You Killed Christ", learned from the Nuns at the school. My mother, who knew the priest from childhood, called and amends were made, much to his credit. | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 4721 Registered: 5-2001 |
Finnegan, thanks for the corrections. When I was a kid in Albany, NY the block we lived on had a number of Catholic kids who attended the local parish school. They taunted the one Jewish kid on the block constantly with the Mantra, "You Killed Christ", learned from the Nuns at the school. My mother, who knew the priest from childhood, called and amends were made, much to his credit. | ||
| finnegan Citizen Username: Finnegan Post Number: 66 Registered: 6-2001 |
bobk, Hurray for your mom! | ||
| ashear Citizen Username: Ashear Post Number: 990 Registered: 5-2001 |
I'll agree the jury is still out on Mel. His dad on the other hand, is an anti-semitic nut job: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040219/ap_en_mo/passion_gibson_s_f ather_2 | ||
| themp Citizen Username: Themp Post Number: 530 Registered: 12-2001 |
Ok, he's a flinty maverick speaking truth to power, jumping across rooftops, fondling his Glock. If we had more like him, we would be in better shape, but the hypocrites and mollycoddlers keep pushing him down. And Rambo liberated Vietnam in 1983. Sorry. He's a hero for the ages - I was wrong. | ||
| themp Citizen Username: Themp Post Number: 531 Registered: 12-2001 |
I mean his Beretta. | ||
| lumpynose Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 714 Registered: 3-2002  |
"let his teeth go". Ohmigod how un-Hollywood. His career is over. | ||
| Redsox Citizen Username: Redsox Post Number: 419 Registered: 6-2002 |
folk guitar masses & alter girls aside.... ..prior to Vat. II, anywhere on earth- the mass was the same & that latin was a binding element for catholics world wide. realize that during Vat. II, the only roman catholic president of this country was assisinated. ....that during Vat. II, there was an on-going concerted world wide effort from protestant church leaders to bring down the roman catholic president of the US. i would think that it is obvious that Vat. II was, in part, a reaction to hostile outside forces and that a lot of the reforms/changes were designed to make the catholic church appear less militant/less threatening/less united to governments, corporations, and opposing religious institutions. the loss of a 2,000 year old latin mass is considered a tragedy by some and a loss of mystique by others. Gibson is being painted as a kook- unfairly, if you look about at the real wacko's in entertainment and the religious con-men about..... ...it's just a movie....... | ||
| mtierney Citizen Username: Mtierney Post Number: 487 Registered: 3-2001 |
"let his teeth go?" Funny, I watched that interview and I recall noting that he had a mouth full of near perfect teeth! What was noteworthy was that they were a natural color - not blindingly white with a formica finish! | ||
| finnegan Citizen Username: Finnegan Post Number: 67 Registered: 6-2001 |
Religious scholars and historians have long believed that Pope John XXIII called the Second Vatican Council primarily so that it could finish the work of the First Vatican Council (1869-1870) which was dismissed unexpectedly, and in fact never formally closed, on account of the outbreak of the Franco-Prussian war. But, redsox, if you want to believe otherwise, that's your choice, but your conspiracy theories are neither "obvious" nor shared by Catholic theologians. And sure, "it's just a movie" about the central and defining faith claims of about one billion people on the planet. "It's just a movie" about a specific part of the story of Jesus that has been used to justify the oppression and persecution of the Jewish people for the last one thousand years. Nostalgia for the Latin mass is beyond me...yeah, it was great in the old days when Catholics all over the globe could go to mass and hear the same Latin which they didn't understand! Why some people long for the days when no one understood the words of consecration and no one participated in the mass is I don't know, but many do. Redsox, could you do me a favor and just name one "protestant church leader" who was involved in the "world wide effort" to "bring down the roman Catholic president of the US"? Please, enlighten me and name as many as you can. | ||
| Redsox Citizen Username: Redsox Post Number: 420 Registered: 6-2002 |
jones, graham, paisly........ | ||
| finnegan Citizen Username: Finnegan Post Number: 68 Registered: 6-2001 |
So, Bob Jones (senior or junior...wait, let me guess...both! right?), Billy Graham, and Ian Paisley worked together to "bring down" JFK? (And the reforms of the Second Vatican Council played right into their hands?) Maybe that story about Lee Harvey Oswald living in Russia from '59-'62 is just a CIA smokescreen, and he was really hanging out with Ian Paisley in Free Ulster during those years plotting the assination... I don't suppose you did your "research" on line? | ||
| Redsox Citizen Username: Redsox Post Number: 421 Registered: 6-2002 |
...... there was a meeting in switzerland around 60'...... there is a paisley-jones link......also forgot to mention the emerging independent african nations....... | ||
| finnegan Citizen Username: Finnegan Post Number: 70 Registered: 6-2001 |
Redsox, I think you forgot to mention the Freemasons, the Klan and the Priory of Sion... | ||
| Redsox Citizen Username: Redsox Post Number: 422 Registered: 6-2002 |
hey finnegan... not from on line, from me own effin library......eat these words "Bannside, in County Antrim, is Paisley's homeland. He was born there, son of Rev. J. Kyle Paisley, in the town of Ballymena.......He is not an orthodox Presbyterian minister, though he holds the degree of Doctor of Divinity from the Bob Jones University, a theological college in the Bible Belt of South Carolina, USA." Holy War In Belfast Andrew Boyd 1969 | ||
| John Davenport Citizen Username: Jjd Post Number: 129 Registered: 2-2003 |
Well, I'm not going to get into the middle of this historical debate between Redsox and Finnegan, but the explanation of Vatican II was very helpful, and the teachings of Nostra Aetate should be repeated again and again. Although I'm not Catholic, I teach at a Catholic university, and every year we have a Nostra Aetate panel with Jewish and Christian scholars to honor this teaching. I would like to hear Mel Gibson honor it, but I fear that he would not. Much as I loved his old movies, he now seems to me little more than a fundamentalist. I think his desire to go back to a pre-Vatican II church represents less than a 1% minority view in contemporary Catholicism. | ||
| Waldo Citizen Username: Discowaldo Post Number: 47 Registered: 12-2003 |
I was wondering if the Catholic church released any of their views on the upcoming movie. I was under the impression that they usually release a statement about their feelings on movies, I know they did it with other controversial religious movies like Dogma, so I was just curious. |
