| Author | Message | ||
     Cookbook_rick Citizen Username: Cookbook_rick Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2003 |
Listen folks...having the neighbors bring food in and park their cars is different than having a hundred people over for a wedding. We're not talking about a few pizza boxes here. The reason why the neighbors are reacting so strongly is because historically there have been very disruptive parties at the house. I have no reason not to believe them, and their evidence. Tom, I will be at the hearing and everything will be on the table there. There has already been plenty of negotiating and compromises and backing and forthing before we bought the place in July 2003. Art never came over and introduced himself to me as a new neighbor, but his "opposition" made my partner and me very welcome to the community. If Art had extended himself to me, and I had heard his side first, maybe things would be different, but I doubt it. Marian, you don't address my concerns about garbage and the other issues. I never mentioned the word realtor, but, gee, thanks for your advice to sue him. That was so helpful! Eliz, we did not ask the realtor about the large house behind us. You may have noticed that there are many large houses in Maplewood and there was no reason to believe that this one was any different. Paddy, thanks for the information about Celebrated Foods. But I would support their neighbors' right to work against undue noise. However, downtown properties must expect some impact on lifestyle from downtown businesses. But this neighborhood isn't downtown. Art, I am reacting to the settlement, which I have in front of me and which I got from the Zoning Board. I am not making up any stories. I think my scenarios are very realistic. I have a hotel/restaurant degree and have worked in the field for many years, including over ten years as a caterer in Manhattan. You are the only person who rents out his space for parties without a deposit that I have ever heard of, and I will take you at your word that you do not. I am also one of your adjacent neighbors, and I am very concerned about my property values. And that my life may be disrupted by the loud parties that your neighbors have warned me about. If you stick to the terms of the settlement and don't rent out your backyard for weddings and such anymore, then we might end up on common ground. But I see plenty of loopholes that need to be filled. | ||
| marian Citizen Username: Marian Post Number: 132 Registered: 9-2001 |
cookbook_rick, Ok, I'll address your "garbage" issue. The settlement says no more than two annual "outdoor, business related functions," right? You’re right –these events will produce a lot of garbage, but we are only talking about TWO large events a year here. My neighborhood has an annual block party that probably produces just as much garbage as a wedding at Les Saisons, but it gets picked up promptly and we haven't been overrun by rats yet. Many of my neighbors also hold large outdoor parties in the spring, summer and fall. Some of these events have probably attracted 50-75 guests and again somehow all the trash gets picked up pretty quickly. One party did get loud and the guests behaved badly. (It was thrown by a teenager while the parents were away.) I called the police and they came immediately. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the issues you bring up are the pretty much the same issues that we all have to deal with in an older suburb where the houses are close together. | ||
| TomR Citizen Username: Tomr Post Number: 151 Registered: 6-2001 |
Cookbook_rick, "Hey, [Cookbook_rick], calm down! Whenever people say "[Not In My Backyard]...,?" I am reminded of a new Township resident who thought that a use of property which they thought would be personally convenient was a a good idea; even though the residents in the neighborhood of the site for that use, found the use offensive. /discus/messages/3132/20178.html?1062570865#POS T150591 A B&B in your neighborhood is a bad idea, but a cell phone tower in someone else's neighborhood is a good idea, even if those residents don't like it. I don't get it. TomR. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2506 Registered: 9-2001 |
Rick, I sorry but I have no idea who you are... I have 18 different families that live on the borders of my property. Many of my neighbors are tenants, and I would have no reason to keep tract of the comings and goings of all of them. And FWIW, there hasn’t been any weddings at Les Saisons since you moved in last July. Listen, I’m not talking about a few pizza boxes either. If each of my neighbors have only two parties a year, we’re talking about 36 events I have to deal with. I regularly deal with neighbors car alarms going off, car doors slamming day and night, babies crying, domestic fights, loud inside and outside parties with guests coming and going, neighbors dogs barking, neighbor’s cats roaming my property, nasty neighbor’s blaring their radio’s, running lawn blowers and leaf blowers after dark, making nasty comments and generally taunting my family and guests. I suggest you see for yourself and don’t believe the neighbor’s who have gone out of their way to spew their hate around the neighborhood. You should ask yourself why they are reacting so strongly, especially when they refuse to even talk to me. And, if you stopped to think about it, there are lots of reasons not to believe them, and their evidence. To start with you never gave me the same courtesy you gave them... I have no problem with you coming to the meeting Monday night, but don’t say there has been plenty of negotiating, compromises, and backing and forth before you bought in July 2003. I don’t know who you were talking with, but it sure wasn’t me. FYI, it’s common knowledge on line and throughout the town that I extend myself to everyone I meet, and regularly invite those I haven’t met for pancakes and small talk. BTW, I’ll address your concerns about my garbage, it goes out daily. If you are reacting to the settlement in front of you, there must be something you don’t understand. I stopped taking deposits because I never kept one, and I never would. Like you just took my word, I want my guests to take mine. The best way to do that is by not taking a deposit in the first place. Maybe what you don’t understand is, the bed and breakfast is how I choose to live, not what I do for a living... Rick, if you read back in this thread you’ll find that another neighbor has just agreed to meet with me at noon tomorrow. I promise not to disrupt your life, and you can be sure your property values will not go down because of me. So, why not bring your family, and anyone else you know, to join some of your other neighbors to share your concerns with me directly? | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2507 Registered: 9-2001 |
Nice catch TomR, the fact is, sometimes we can see a flee on someone else, but wouldn’t notice an elephant on ourselves... What I find most interesting is, if Rick and I can see the value of what a cell tower can do for our town, maybe if he comes over tomorrow at noon, he will see the value in what a bed and breakfast can do for the community as well? | ||
| Duncan Citizen Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 1593 Registered: 12-2001  |
Frankly I think you are being a bit unreasonable Rick. I appreciate the concerns, but OF YOUR OWN KNOWLEDGE, has anything disruptive happened since you moved in? If so did you take it up with Art? My neighbor has a pool (inground heated what a joy) and twice a year their adult children throw pool parties. We are 15 yards from the pool and the older son is a devotee of 70's metal rock. So what. They are good people who have been kind and helpful to us in the past and we try to return that kindness when we can. What I am getting at is that good neighbors make a difference. If the pool party was thrown by inconsiderate, nasty we-dont-talk-to-anyone-who-wasnt-born-here people I would be calling the cops on the level of noise and cars. But they are not those people. Get to know Art. He is as committed to this town as anyone who lives here, does more with his time and talent in a month than most do in a decade. Lord knows he has helped me out and I stand ready to help him whenever he calls. Alls Well That Ends Well. Playing through March 7. info at http://www.hometown.aol.com/theatr1010/ | ||
| algebra2 Citizen Username: Algebra2 Post Number: 1666 Registered: 5-2001  |
Rick, I am thankful you aren't MY neighbor. There is NOBODY around who cares more about Maplewood than Art. He is involved in issues that matter to him and, as far as I can tell, he is one of the best eggs in Maplewood. I'd be honored to be Art's neighbor -- so there!  | ||
| Ed May Citizen Username: Edmay Post Number: 1974 Registered: 9-2001  |
There are many reasons why the Maplewood Board of Adjustment - scheduled to meet in public session at 8:00 P.M., Monday, March 1, 2004 - should decide to settle the continuing litigation with Les Saisons Bed and Breakfast, located at 304 Elmwood Avenue, Maplewood. Here are just some of the reasons why the Board should vote "YES" on the settlement. # 1 : Les Saisons Bed and Breakfast has been an asset to Maplewood for decades, providing lodging for guests well before the term "bed and breakfast" was popularized. # 2 : Les Saisons B and B provides a convenient location for children and grandchildren to stay overnight when they visit their parents and grandparents at Ward Homestead and Winchester Gardens. # 3 : Les Saisons B & B is the only place for miles around where visiters to Maplewood can lodge overnight, since the nearest motels are in Union, West Orange, Irvington, etc. # 4 : Les Saisons helps the local economy by providing jobs, purchasing food and supplies locally, etc. # 5 : Les Saisons pays a lot of real estate taxes to Maplewood. # 6 : Les Saisons pays a lodging tax on every overnight guest. # 7 : Les Saisons was never a real nuisance to its neighbors, and even if it was, the settlement is so restrictive that neighbors will hardly even know that Les Saisons has guests on a given night. # 8 : Les Saisons has prevailed in every legal battle so far, which indicates that there was never any sound legal basis for litigating against Les Saisons in the first place. # 9 : Maplewood should stop wasting my tax dollars and your tax dollars paying lawyers fees for such a frivilous case as this one. # 10 : Maplewood officials are too busy with important issues to keep spending time on non-issues, as this should be. # 11 : Maplewood needs more B & B 's. This settlement will provive precident for their establishment. # 12 : This Settlement is the exact Settlement that the Maplewood Board of Adjustment put forth last fall. This Settlement addresses all of the Township of Maplewood issues and all of the neighbors issues. Les Saisons is willing to accept and abide by this very restrictive settlement. Ed May | ||
| just me fromsouthorange Citizen Username: Jmfromsorange Post Number: 121 Registered: 7-2003 |
to tomr- that was great about the cell towers and cook! i can't wait to read his response! | ||
| Cookbook_rick Citizen Username: Cookbook_rick Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thanks for the belated invitation, Art, but I am under deadline and working this afternoon. Yes, this entire incident reminds me of the cell tower, too. It also reminds me of why I go on www.maplewoodonline so rarely. | ||
| Marilyn May Citizen Username: Marilynmay Post Number: 222 Registered: 7-2002 |
I just wanted to say that Les Saisons hosted one or two campaign events last year when my husband Ed ran for the town council, and even that Les Saisons has hosted several SOMBI events, and that none of these held in various seasons caused any problems with the neighbors and it was so nice of Art and Libby to be such super hosts. Marilyn May | ||
| gtonne Citizen Username: Gtonne Post Number: 35 Registered: 9-2002 |
Rick - how is Art's invitation belated? And why don't you take him up on it another time? Just wondering because you seem so angry and a face to face talk is usually a productive way to resolve a contentious situation and clear up any miscommunication issues. No? | ||
| softparade Citizen Username: Softparade Post Number: 68 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ed May - you have a few facts mixed up here 1. Les Saisons was never open for 'decades' It began operations circa 1998-99 with 4 rooms and now has 10- check the ads - no one in town ever recalls a B&B operation at that address- allowing family and workers to sleep there is not a business- 2. True- but the area is not/never was zoned for a motel operation- and note- operations began the same time WG filled up to take advantage of this 3.True - but if this were a KFC or a Cell Tower how would that be? There are no real close KFC's The folks on Boyden don't want any take out either how convenient for ya! 4. None of that can be proved- it is indirect at best 5.Les Saison is a residence and pays the same or less - about 13 grand a year or so according to the last reval 6. Art never even submitted any tax returns on this place at the Zoning Board of Adjustment last year- one of the many reasons he was denied the certificate. 7.Les Saisons was in fact a great problem to the neighbors- so much so that relative strangers banded together- Ed- please go to Town Hall and the Police Dept and check out the reports detailing the calls from many neighbors for years Check out the Heath dept also - Art even admits on MOL that he has rats- 8. No comment since there is no access to this information with the exact wording 9.It is not a waste of time and tax dollars to defend the law- and the Townships Zoning regulations are being broken- this is a very serious case. 10. Maplewood Officials are elected to do this very business- just because you feel this is a 'non-issue' many many folks feel differently 11. There are no B&B's because the Township in the 1920's voted to no longer allow the usuage of Boarding/rooming houses in the township- along with all the potential good there is also the potential bad- we have enough trouble with illegal apartments than to add to this 12. This 'settlement' was never ever discussed at the ZBA last year- check the record. it is recognized that Ed is Art's friend,supporter but he needs a reality check every now and them He doesn't even mention that the 'enemy neighbors' were actually friendly and cordial until about 2000 -- Well doesn;t matter anyway-Monday nights the facts will be presented and let the chips fall. | ||
| Joel S. Ziegler Citizen Username: Joelziegler Post Number: 56 Registered: 4-2003  |
Art You were a true supporter of our campaign last year, hosting events at Les Saisons, and over the years I have known you to be generous with your time and talents to many causes, and Les Saisons has freely hosted events for other groups, regardless of affiliation. Still recovering from my surgery and doubtful for Monday Night but all the best!! Take heart! | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2510 Registered: 9-2001 |
“Monday nights the facts will be presented and let the chips fall…” Softparade, I agree with you, let the chips fall where they may! However, this Zoning Board meeting is not about hearing new facts and testimony, or for that matter rehashing all the past testimony either. That part of the process was completed months ago. This public hearing is simply to decide on whether the Maplewood Board of Adjustment should continue the expense of litigation, or settle this matter once and for all... FWIW, I also hope for everyone’s sake that after the hearing Monday night, the Board will have decided to let us all move on, and hopefully back to the way it was, when as you said, we “were actually friendly and cordial in 2000.” Hey, why not? I'd like that... Good luck! | ||
| Deb G Citizen Username: Deborahg Post Number: 793 Registered: 5-2001 |
Rick, No offense but you sound ridiculous. I live adjacent to another Maplewood tradition, the Little Club. Parties are hosted there, including weddings, twice every weekend. There is less space between my house and the clubhouse than there is between Art and any of his neighbors, and the club has parties far bigger than Art is allowed to have. And yet...in four years, I have had to call the police exactly twice because of unacceptable noise levels (in both case during sweet 16 parties), and in both cases the noise promptly stopped. Twice-yearly parties sounds like bupkis to me. If you don't want to have neighbors, go live in Alaska. | ||
| anon Citizen Username: Anon Post Number: 999 Registered: 6-2002 |
Isn't it rather odd for neighbors to communicate on-line rather than in person. So, Rick, why haven't you just gone over and rang Art's bell to talk to him? Since Art has no idea who you are, he cannot make the first move. On the other hand, maybe you can trade houses with Algebra who would be "honored" to be Art's neighbor. | ||
| eliz Citizen Username: Eliz Post Number: 718 Registered: 5-2001 |
No offense Cookbook Rick Deb G is right - you sound ridiculous. You don't research the neighborhood you are buying in (I live not far from you and I asked what Les Saisons was when I drove by with my realtor - yes there are lots of large houses but it looks different than most), you jump on a bandwagon for something that you've had no negative experience with and you're freaking out about 2 events a year? | ||
| Joan Citizen Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 2526 Registered: 5-2001 |
Rick: I live just down the street from a very large church with no parking lot. Every Sunday morning my house is surrounded by vehicles looking to park for services. Weekdays the neighborhood is full of strangers going to and from pre-school, play group and a whole host of other community gatherings. Evenings there are scout meetings, recovery meetings, etc. Several times a year extra crowds are brought to the area by activities like concerts, rummage sales and blood drives. Given the nature of the structure, it is reasonable to assume that far more than two weddings a year are held on the block. Pre-school children frequent the out door play area which is a very short distance from my own yard. After services and other activities parishoners and others gather to to hold conversations. The church also has overnight guests when it hosts the homeless, as it does several times a year. The impact this church has on my neighborhood is far greater than the impact of a B and B should be and we have never experienced any of the negative conditions that you are suggesting in your post. I have always found that the close proximity to this church has brought a vibrancy to our block that is missing in so many other parts of town. The nearness of my house to the church will most likely add value to my home when I look to sell simply because of all the community services it offers and supports. Things need not be a bleak as you picture them. | ||
| Shock & Awe Straw Citizen Username: Strawberry Post Number: 2044 Registered: 10-2001  |
If Joan supports Art's b& b as far as I'm concerned the issue should be a done deal. Rick, I don't know who you are and frankly I don't care. All I have to say is it is people like you who sicken the rest of us. Leave Art alone and leave Maplewood. As far as I'm concerned you're a pimple on Art's ass. Annoying? yes, purposeful?, no... RIGHT DAVE? |
