| Author |
Message |
    
Maxsdad
Citizen
Username: Maxsdad
Post Number: 45
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 4:08 pm: |     |
I was speaking to a librarian today about a sign they have posted looking for parttime after school help. Part of the responsibilities posted include "crowd control and discipline". The librarian said that many parents from Maplewood Middle School expect their kids to stay at the library until they pick them up after work - some well past 5 pm. It is unreasonable to expect the kids to remain quiet and well behaved, especially after spending 6 hours in school. I applaud the library for trying to put some controls on the situation, but when did it become the library's responsibility (or expense) to babysit these kids? Why do parents think that leaving their kids at the library for 2+ hours after school each day is a viable alternative? This seems to be taking advantage of a wonderful library system and their helpful staff. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2567
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 5:06 pm: | |
This is not a recent development. Middle school students have been hanging out at the main library after school for many years. If you walk by the library on a weekday afternoon when the weather is pleasant, you will find many young people sitting on the steps enjoying the weather and each other's company. Others like to enter the library and congregate in the reference room or at the computers.
Roland Bennett tried to address the problem for many years. He even tried to develop a drop in center at the Civic House but the kids just weren't interested in going there.
This is the first I have heard of the library's hiring someone to work in the library building with the kids. I hope the approach is a success. |
lumpynose
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 771
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 6:01 pm: | |
It's called dumping your child 5 days a week at the library until you can come pick them up after work. Free day care. |
Cato Nova
Citizen
Username: Cato_nova
Post Number: 86
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 6:29 pm: | |
What the heck are these free-loaders thinking of? They should quit work to take care of their kids and go on welfare instead. Thank god we don't live in a nation like France, which has free, quality day care. What kind of craziness would that lead to? |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2333
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 6:32 pm: | |
Better educated children, for one thing. Who would want that? |
lumpynose
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 773
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 7:22 pm: | |
Don't have em if you can't afford em. TINSTAAFL. |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 188
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 8:26 pm: | |
It's a probelem that all public libraries have to deal with. Unfortunately, because these are public places, there isn't anything that can be done about it. The kids have a right to be there, just the way the homeless have a right to be in the library (remember what happened in Morristown). I sympathize with the library staff. Nobody tells you how to deal with undisciplined children or scarey homeless people in Library school. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 2064
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 8:48 pm: | |
Since the parents pay taxes, why can't they use the library? As long as MPD cooperates in escorting unruly kids out & a zero-nonsense policy can be enforced, what's the problem?
Are people afraid the kids might read or something? Maybe the part-time person could start a reading group or book club for the kids. |
Dave
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6551
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 9:02 pm: | |
As all Robert Heinlein fans know, It's TANSTAAFL |
clkelley
Citizen
Username: Clkelley
Post Number: 168
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 9:12 pm: | |
Well as I see it, isn't it nice that the kids hang out at the library instead of some of the other places kids tend to hang out?
Of course they have to respect the place - but getting them into an environment with lots of books & computers seems like a good thing to me. A pal of mine who is a university librarian says that current thinking among university librarians is that libraries should be places where people gather. I like that concept, and I think it works for public libraries too. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 24
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 8:53 am: | |
I agree with clkelley. I think most librarians will tell you it's a constant struggle to get kids interested in books, let alone into a library. This relatively captive audience represents an opportunity, not a threat. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 1070
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 10:50 am: | |
If a kid is being unruly or disruptive at the library, kick them out and suspend them for a couple days from re-entering5{uch and if it does, just raise Cato Nova's taxes. By the way, France's "craziness" of free no-responsibility services for life leads to 8-10% unemployment.
If the dual-income parents can't pick up their kids, why not force them to hire the same sort of illegal immigrants that others in the town use as nannys or landscapers to sit their unruly kids for a couple hours. |
Rebecca Raines
Citizen
Username: Robin_realist
Post Number: 90
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 11:04 am: | |
In a perfect world the middle school kids would step into the libraries after school lets out and quietly take a seat then begin to read or study. After an hour or so, they would go to the desk, check out some books, quietly move to the door and make their way home for an afterschool snack while they wait for their parents to come home, make dinner and sit down and eat together.
In reality, some kids do as described but many others come to the libraries to hang out until they can go home or their parent pick them up, sometimes as late as closing time. They are too loud and when you ask them to be quiet, they may quiet down briefly, but soon return to their former volume. Some of these particular kids cannot check out books because they have large fines or bills for lost books. Most of these kids can't go home, they've been told not to. If they become too rowdy, staff will ask them to leave, many times they talk back, eventually they leave the building only to stand on the steps. If this happens at the Main Library, some of these kids will then move on down to the Branch Library to go through the whole process again.
The library has a behavior policy that it tries to get them to adhere to, but this has turned into an increasingly difficult task. The school has sent home letters and the teachers and police officers at the school have talked to them about appropriate behavior and respect for your elders.
However, more and more families seem to view the library as a safe place to have kids wait. They may have the idea that it's perfect for their child to do their homework after school and that's what their child is doing. It's not that the kids are bad. It's that there are too many of them and they are here for too long. There is a no food policy, but they are hungry and need to eat so are always trying to sneak in food. They are tired of sitting all day so spend a lot of time roaming around the library, which is distracting to everyone, but also sometimes ends in horseplay. They have also had to be quiet in class all day so even if they are sitting, they are talking and laughing, which usually becomes too loud. Libraries have changed and they aren't the completely silent places they used to be, but they do need to be relatively quiet and peaceful.
Some staff are better than others at dealing with these issues, but it has become such a time-consuming task that all staff are becoming overwhelmed and burnt-out over it. No one likes to play the disciplinarian all the time. We want to work with people. To help them find information they need and reading material they enjoy. This is why there is an advert for an After School Supervisor. We're hoping that having one person, who's job is to manage kid behavior, we'll all be less stressed. I'm hoping that the person is a pleasant but firm personality that will be really consistent with the kids.
This is all my personal opinion and point of view. This is not an official statement from the library. R |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2834
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 11:29 am: | |
I have tried to take books out of the library when the kids are there after school. It's like shopping at the mall before christmas. I left, and came back that evening to get my books. |
gozerbrown
Citizen
Username: Gozerbrown
Post Number: 372
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 11:47 am: | |
The use of the word "crowd control" brings back visions of riot footage. Have stun gun...will travel. |
clkelley
Citizen
Username: Clkelley
Post Number: 171
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 12:01 pm: | |
mem, was this because the kids were in line checking out books? If so, then I can't say I have a problem with it. I would faint with happiness if I saw a long line of middle school kids checking out books at the library!
If it's because the staff were occupied with the kids rather than checking out books, I could see that you have a point. The new staff position should make some difference.
Either way, as noted elsewhere, the kids have a right to be there. I think as a parent I'd prefer for my kid to have some structured and supervised activities at that time rather than being on their own in a public place, but there aren't many options available for that age group. I don't know this for a fact (my kid is younger, and it's been a long time since I was that age), but I'm guessing that children in this age group might resist being in the care of a "nanny" - an option that is only available to the very well-off in any case.
The real solution is to increase the number of spots for middle school kids in the ASP program (which meets at the library, I believe). |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2837
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 12:42 pm: | |
clkelley,
Last Spring - there were kids everywhere, inside, on the steps and on the lawn. They weren't even looking at books much less checking any out, sorry... It was too noisy to concentrate on what I needed, they were arguing, shouting, and singing as kids do except there were so many of them, I felt so bad for the overwhelmed staff. It really didn't bother me too much because I just made plans to go back later when they were all gone, but it's certainly not your average library - and, hate to have to say this, it wasn't like this when I was growing up - it has become like this over the last 10 years. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 581
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 12:45 pm: | |
these kids are 13-14 years old, right? don't they deserve some amount of autonomy in the couple hours after school? and if they don't play a sport, or belong to any clubs, what better place for them than the library?
of course they need to follow the rules for behavior in the library, no dispute there.
but I really think a lot of members of our community just wish these middle school kids would disappear.
we don't want them hanging out in the village, or in the pizzerias. and we don't want them in the library, or out in front of the school.
they really are too old for "nannies" and day care, so where are they supposed to go? |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 470
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 12:53 pm: | |
Doesn't MMS have an after school program?
I've experienced the after school behavior, and the library does need someone just to help with that. And I do think kids need an appropriate place to be after school. If the parents don't want to pay for -- or there aren't spots in -- after school, seems like utilizing the library is good only if the kids obey the rules.
I'm not seeing why loitering bad behavior isn't something for the police to handle, and not so much to harrass the kids as to put their parents on notice that there's a problem -- and they have to deal with it. Doesn't it start to be a child welfare issue at some point?
In any case, I don't think the library can deal with this all on its own, or with its own miniscule budget. |
lumpynose
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 786
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 1:20 pm: | |
If a kid gets hurt on the property will the parents sue the library? Will the town sue the parents for neglect? |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 390
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 1:41 pm: | |
When I was 12 or 13 the last place on earth you would find kids after school was the library. Go play hoops another sport anything but the library. Also after school 13 or 14 yr old boys deal drugs. Is this why the parents around the Hilton library oppose it as the site for a police station. |
Rebecca Raines
Citizen
Username: Robin_realist
Post Number: 92
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 4:19 pm: | |
(I'm going to ignore that inflammatory statement Jet)
The issue of safety is a real concern for the township and library. If the kids injure themselves in some way, will their parents try to hold us responsible for not properly supervising them? There are also the younger kids to think about. Some upper elementary age kids are also told to go the the libraries after school. Some parents even drop their elementary school child off at 3:15 and then come back at 5:30, 6:30 or 7:30 to pick them up. What if they aren't there when the parents return? Wouldn't they want to blame someone? The library is part of the community and wants to be a welcoming place for everyone, but the world isn't like it used to be. Kids get taken from malls and libraries. You wouldn't drop your kid off at the grocery store or public park and say "Stay here and play until I get off work at 8." Most of these issues are actually PARENTING issues. Not issues with the kids. As I said before, the kids don't seem to be bad, just idle and bored and too many of them. They start to form groups and do inappropriate things. Some parents just don't see this as a real issue. R |
Maxsdad
Citizen
Username: Maxsdad
Post Number: 47
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 5:09 pm: | |
I agree with Rebecca that this is a Parenting issue. Having a 6th grader at SOMS, I know that after school the last thing he wants to do is go to a library - and he's an avid reader. He wants activity and to let off some steam, or sometimes to watch TV and veg out for a while. Libraries were never made as a place for kids (of any age) to hang out for 2+ hours, but that's what it has become. Built in, free babysitting. Shame on the parents for abusing our libraries. |
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