| Author | Message | ||
     Reflective Citizen Username: Reflective Post Number: 349 Registered: 3-2003 |
lumpy: Pls elaborate on why the feral ones (great description) won't listen to SR. | ||
| harpo Citizen Username: Harpo Post Number: 1374 Registered: 6-2001 |
Who are the feral ones? You had no consideration whatsoever for Suzanne Ryan and her family when Jerry was on the TC, and you and mem went after her husband with lies and more lies. She's always behaved like a gracious adult. By contrast, you'll look like an idiot if it's me you're insinuating about, because when I saw Jerry in a few weeks back, I invited them both over to my house again to discuss many issues, like we have in the past. I've strongly challenged the existence of "scientifically-based" reading curricula, and I've directly disagreed with Suzanne about NCLB. Suzanne is passionate about education and may be hopping mad about what I said, but she doesn't need to demonize people who disagree with her. She's not that insecure. It has frankly amazed me to see you and mem now fawning on her and posting in these threads of your super great respect for Suzanne Ryan -- only because now you see her as so useful in your latest enemies campaign. I certainly hope the candidates Suzanne supports are more honest than you two. I share my honest disagreements with Suzanne because I know she believes in honest dialogue. I don't treat Suzanne Ryan like she's a fool. | ||
| lumpynose Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 800 Registered: 3-2002  |
You are talking once again out of your backside. I could care less who Suzannoe Ryan is married to and whether or not her husband won or lost an election. It is immaterial to me. I have never heard anything about her except that she is a qualified and gifted teacher in our district. Does it make you insecure that she isn't supporting your candidates for the BOE? Get over yourself. Regarding her husband, whom you choose to drag into this debate, some people voted for him and some didn't. Seems that more didn't. I don't know how relevant this is and how it is ANY of your business who I voted for in the last election. You are comparing apples to oranges. I don't know where you come off being an authority on deer culling or educating children but I strongly suggest you stop your accusations. This isn't about you. | ||
| lumpynose Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 801 Registered: 3-2002 |
Reflective: Harpo is feral. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 2854 Registered: 5-2001  |
Harpo, Get a hold of yourself. No one is fawning on Suzanne. I admire her as a talented, caring teacher, and I agree with her ideas - that's OK, right? Also, I happen to be friends with Jerry Ryan for years now. Perhaps I didn't agree with some of the choices the TC made, but that's OK too, right? It's called diversity. If you're "amazed" by stuff like this, then you need to get out and circulate more, and stop being so myopically and negatively opinionated, screeching down people's throats at the drop of a hat certainly doesn't help your unattractiveness. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 2856 Registered: 5-2001 |
And for the record, I don't know or care who Suzanne backs for any election, I just wish we could have someone like her on the BOE. I never spread lies about Jerry Ryan (name one). harpo, your posts are very slandering towards all of us, including the Ryans. It's loony. | ||
| nan Citizen Username: Nan Post Number: 1201 Registered: 2-2001 |
Good points, Harpo. Lumpynose, I was raised by wolves and I work in the corporate world. So I know about feral. Nevertheless, you, as usual, contribute nothing to the discussion except personal attacks. Time to grow up, and I don't mean turn into a turnip or a tumor. There are lots of talented teachers in our district who don't want scripted reading programs. Why should I agree with one who does just because someone named Lumpynose says I have to? I had that kind of instruction when I was a kid and it made no sense to me then and it makes no sense to me now. | ||
| harpo Citizen Username: Harpo Post Number: 1376 Registered: 6-2001 |
I don't have any candidates for the BOE yet. I've disagreed with Julia Burch online in almost the exact same measure I've disagreed with Suzanne -- who isn't running anyway. I read Suzanne's endorsement letter and hope to meet those candidates in a neighborhood coffee. Rigorous criticism of ACE is not personal or professional criticism of Suzanne Ryan, which is the false equation lumpynose is trying to make while posing as the newly-minted protector of M/SO teachers. Is it possible he too sees ACE making arguments that don't stand up to scrutiny and is looking for a way to deflect people's attention from the real issues by exploiting a good teacher's reputation? Suzanne isn't even running for the BOE -- and the funny thing is that if she ever did and won, she'd be lumpynose's worst nightmare. | ||
| harpo Citizen Username: Harpo Post Number: 1377 Registered: 6-2001 |
Mem, I won't answer the grade school level insults but I do regret broadly lumping you in with lumpynose when speaking of the lies that were told about Jerry during the reval and a few other fights, lies that went beyond "diversity" of opinion. I just thought you stood by a lot while Jerry was getting savaged with lies when usually you're pretty quick to chime in on behalf of your friends, and generally egged on the people doing the most personal attacking. I wasn't and am not speaking for the Ryans, by the way. They can handle themselves. | ||
| Who? Citizen Username: Deadwhitemale Post Number: 699 Registered: 5-2001 |
Don't answer nan or harpo, for their reponses are equivalent to the result of throwing bloody good ideas to feral sharks. DWM | ||
| Suzanne Ryan Citizen Username: Suzanne_ryan Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2002 |
This post reflects my personal opinion.It does not reflect the school district which employs me, nor the Edcuation Association of which I am a member. Hey everyone -- this isn't about being a democrat or being a republican -- who you voted for or who you didn't vote for. It is really apolitical.It should be anyway. This is about the children in our community and all the communites in our beautiful country. It is about getting each and every child what they need the most -- the skill of being able to read so that they can make it in the world. I believe that every child has the right to be taught how to learn how to read--really learn how to read-- so that it can change their lives. Reading can take us from ignorance to knowledge and innocence to experience. Reading for joy and pleasure is one of the greatest things on earth. Reading can change a person's life.My grandmother, who was an immigrant girl who dropped out of school at age 10 to raise her younger siblings after her mother's and younger brother's tragic deaths, was the smartest woman I knew. She had learned to read and speak a new language in her little country school in Tuxedo, New York. There she was, this young Slovak named Anna, who knew that the way to make it in this new country was to get an education. Although she had to quit school due to family responsibility, she continued to read, and read, and read, and read. She could do so because she had been explicitly taught. That was 1904. One hundred years ago. She was part of the great immigrant experinece-- where if you came to America, studied, and worked hard, you could do better for you and yours. She made it because someone taught her to "break the code." Today, I look around and I see children who are immigrants themselves, or are children or grandchildren of immigrants, yet, they are not fully living the American dream, because, if you can't read, or can't read well, you don't make it in this world. It just doesn't happen. They say that the government counts heads of failing readers in fourth grade to plan beds for jail cells in the future. How dire. As a citizen, I truly believe that the right to read is the new civil right. If, as a nation, we want to combat poverty, crime,and violence we must give the simple yet powerful tool of an education. To gain access to an education, you must be able to read, for reading is the foundation upon which all else rests.Reading allows you to access all other areas of learning. If you can read, you can do math,social studies,and science. You even become a better writer. As a teacher, I have seen too many kids fall through the cracks. I see NCLB as an imperfect but really good attempt to have some accountability to the children in this community, and communities throughout this land -- all those children who have too easily fallen through the cracks; those too easily forgotten and too easily ignored. I am totally thrilled that we have top students in our district. I cheer for them and their families. On the other hand, we have a large, and growing number of children, who are not "getting it"-- those are the children that I want to work for. Those are the children that NCLB came to help. Ironically, research also says that if a district employs a systematic and explicit way of teaching reading in the early grades, then all children do better -- We bring all children up -- the bar is raised for everyone! That means our top kids soar higher. They are not pulled down.It is what I call a win-win situation. Actually, it is a win-win-win situation. Our teachers are given the tools to successfully teach, all of our children get what they deserve and need, and our community benefits. I know I sound like a broken record for those of you that have read the posts I have made in the past. However, it comes down to a very simple formula -- teach children early--use sound methods that are known and proven to work. Methods that can withstand the test of efficacy. Methods that research proves are best for children. Liken the reading research today to the medical research that the government does to combat illnesses or provide public service annnouncements regarding health issues. Take for example, the Surgeon General who several years ago said that if women had routine mamograms after age 35, then we could detect breast cancer early enough to treat it. The Surgeon General said that we could decrease the number of breast cancer related deaths. Did society listen? Yes, they did. Now we have routine mamograms. Similarly,the Department of Education, along with many major reading researchers across this country, can now say that we KNOW what the best ways are to each kids to read. Yet as a district, and yes, even as a nation, we have not listened or followed what the research says. Why? I have no doubt that if as a society we were blessed with a cure for AIDS, we would wholeheartedly embrace the cure, use it, and make sure that we lost no more people to that horrendous disease. We'd wipe it out. And we'd cheer. Yet, as a society, we ignore the thirty years of reading research that tells us how we can stop the wholesale failure of our children not learning how to read. Why? If we do not allow our children to become proficient readers-- and we let them fail-- and we do nothing about it--it is the same as allowing an illness to happen when you have the preventative measures. Imagine years ago in the fifties, discovering the polio vaccine, and knowing that the polio vaccine worked, and then not giving it to children! We'd still have polio. However,that is what we are doing when we ignore the reading research.We are allowing our children to not fulfill their potential. As a teacher and a parent and a citizen, I feel frustrated by the rhetoric and the flawed ideologies that exist and perpetuate the myth that children will learn to read on their own--or even worse, the myth that some children will never succeed if they happen to come from the "wrong home" --low socioeconic, minority, single parent family, etc., etc.. I challenge people in this wonderful community to debunk that myth. My goodness-- I probably wouldn't have made it as far as I have if someone had slated me for failure because they saw my "blue-collar community background". NO--someone saw more in me. They saw a kid who came wanting to learn--I got taught and I was encouraged. Success bred more success. A sound, foundational education should not be something that is reserved for a certain few.It is not an inalienable right for the children who happen to make it into the "right" classroom with the "right" teacher who teaches in a systematic and explicit way. It should be the experience for all children. Those responsible for oveerseeing and providing the education--the Board of Ed, the Administration, the teachers and support staff, and yes, the parents--we all must believe in every child. EVERY child. Not just those that we think will get it. We need to raise the bar by adopting methodology and practices which correspond to the reading research. I firmly believe that all children can succeed. All children! We cannot change how kids come to us -- but we certainly can change how they leave us each day -- and how they leave us after going through our system. I just think we can do better. Actually, I don't think that anymore---I know we can. Parents ands community members-- follow your hearts. Seek knowledge and seek assistance if you have questions.There is good solid information out there that can stand the test of efficacy. If you have questions or concerns send me a private line. I urge all community members to get involved and pull together for all the children in our community. We can begin to change the world one tiny step at a time in our little section of the world. It can happen. It will happen. We are too kind and caring of a community for it not do so.We have so much that is right--let's make it better. My best to all. | ||
| nan Citizen Username: Nan Post Number: 1210 Registered: 2-2001 |
Suzanne, Well, it might not be so much about being a Republican or a Democrat, but it is probably MORE political than either. Anyone who even tries to read half the links on MOL would see that in an instant. And you are a prominent member of the teacher's union. Rod Paige is calling your constituency terrorists and Reid Lyon wants to blow up colleges of education where teachers also work. And these are the people you support? Where's the evidence that NCLB is working for anyone, never mind the children it was supposedly designed for? What about all those dropouts in Texas? What about all those kids in California who don't have recess or social studies or art or music even some math bacause they are getting nothing but Open Court all day? Is this a "really good attempt?" I'm guessing you would agree that reading is more than just learning to sound out words. But, why are you pretending that it's just a simple matter of children not receiving some proven medicine against illness? Do you really belive that learning to read should be like curing a disease? They rarely give medicine to the healthy; if they do, major intervention studies are conducted to make sure the treatment does not harm. Don't think some kids will be turned off to reading by all those worksheets? Come over to my house and talk to my kid. The medical model of reading has been heavily criticized, even by the scientific community. It does not fit. Not that kids don't need to learn phonics and to "crack the code." I think we all realize that not many learn to read naturally without any assistance. However, I also think some of us need to recognize that not every single thing needs to be spelled out systematically and explicitly all the time. Children are capable of picking a lot on their own and should be required to figure some things on their own. A curriculum that assumes everyone is a blank slate or incapable of deciding anything for themselves is also going to have serious problems. We need balanced instruction, not an extreme or one size fits all. Children who read a lot know a lot more than kids who don't and have bigger vocabularies. This what the research says. The research DOES NOT say use Open Court or Reading Mastery and every child will learn how to read. The research does not say a program must have scope and sequence or decodable books. The research does not say that kids above first grade benefit from phonics instruction. The research does not say there is ONE brand of phonics that works or even that there is ONE way to teach reading. The people at NICHD (and the people at ACE) would have us believe that there is one way. For some of them, there are rich benefits to having us believe these things. Louisa Moats, for example, is doing quite well. You were annoyed with me last year when I tried to ask her a challenging question. You expressed the opinion that she was so impressive a person that she was above criticism. Well, if you believe in the medical model for reading, what do you think about the current discussion of medical conflicts of interest between drug companies and doctors? Lets look at what Elaine Garan found out about Ms. Moats and see if maybe there should also be an investigation on reading researchers and benefits they receive from the products they hawk. ----------------------------- Louisa Moats There's more. Louisa Moats is the project director of NICHD, our government agency that sponsored the NRP report. Moats is also the research and professional development director for her own entrepreneurial pursuit, a commercial program called Language! that pushes decodable "Cat spat at rat" programs on middle and high school students. The companies that distribute Lauguage! are Sopris West and , , ,McGraw-Hill/Glencoe. Thus the program Moats is selling carries with it the cachet and the clout of her role as NICHD director. In fact, the professional training for teachers--you remember, the training Moats directs at Sopris West--begins with a clip from the NRP video that was directed by Widmeyer-Baker, McGraw-Hill's PR agency. Recall that our tax dollars paid for this video. During Language! professional development training, the NRP segment shown states, "Now we know through science how kids learn to read," the Language! presentation then extols the use of phonics and decodable text such as that used in Language! This in spite of the fact that the NRP did not even include research on kids above sixth grade or on decodable text and in spite of the fact that above first grade, phonics did not help kids' reading growth, as we've seen! Wait. There's still more on Language! The only "research" for this program--besides the implied blessing of the NRP findings--was done by Jane Fell Greene. . . the creator of Language! On its website, you will see that Language! is not only "researched based" but is "Commended for Excellence" and has been "Adopted by the State of California" from 1999 through 2005. And so this program is approved for middle and high school students, based on one study--done by its creator--published in a journal on dyslexia. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see serious problems with this whole scenario. (pg. 103, "In Defense of Our Children: When Politics, Profit, and Education Collide" by Elaine M. Garan, Ph.D., Heinemann, 2004) NOTE: typos are mine--I'm running off to work. . | ||
| lumpynose Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 807 Registered: 3-2002 |
Sorry Nan. You are the most feral of them all. Suzanne Ryan makes sense. If who she supports bothers you that much, then why don't you run for BOE yourself? | ||
| Who? Citizen Username: Deadwhitemale Post Number: 704 Registered: 5-2001 |
Teach: Do not respond to she who must not be named. Remember what George C. Scott said about illegitimati? Sorry for the Latin phonetics!!! Wait, a last second observation. "she" quotes from a Heinemann publication. Remember, H is the WL publisher of record, with a whole lot of money on the line. DWM | ||
| harpo Citizen Username: Harpo Post Number: 1378 Registered: 6-2001 |
Hi Suzanne, I'm writing fast, so please don't interpret bullet-speed prose for lack of good cheer and friendliness in debate. Surely you want more than believers. You want dialogue too. Since I make my living because other people can read, you're not going to get an argument from me about the importance of reading. Nor will I take second place to anyone in my support for finally making our schools work for everyone. (For one thing, I'm older than you and have been banging that drum longer. ;-) But I actually do think it makes a difference whether Democrats or Republicans are in the catbird's seats when it comes to making NCLB work for us. Even on the local level, people have to be prepared to criticize the lack of funding and demand the changes that will get it, and I think that includes knowing it requires regime change in DC. It will never work without the Federal funding, especially here in NJ. There is no affordable fix without dollars from the state or DC. Furthermore, the structures of NCLB at present appear to be a set-up for a voucher system. I don't see how M/SO public schools or children would benefit from that. So it needs to be entrusted to hands other than the crowd that calls teachers' unions terrorist organizations. As for the research that supports phonics over other reading curricula, I think the issues aren't resolved at all in the quality research and I don't know why ACE believes otherwise. For example, I know of no reputable newspaper that would publish what you've said as fact. I haven't seen ANY educational study that can be likened to medical research. (And just as an aside, please consider all the controversy over whether routine mammograms actually do make a difference! It's not a slam dunk by any means. And not to nitpick, but let me just post for the benefit of others that the recommended age is over 50. There may be real harm from excess radiation at lower ages.) To follow your analogy about AIDS, doctors have discovered in Africa that it is not enough to hand out pills which are the product of scientific research. You have to address the culture in which AIDS is transmitted. You also have to set up the infrastructures that make the delivery of efficacious medical care possible. I am concerned that ACE is asking for a quite large taxpayer investment in curriculum and no investment in the cultural changes needed for effective schools with diverse populations. There may one day be a cure for AIDS that is a simple pill that works for everybody. Are you suggesting we now have a reading program that "cures" reading problems in everybody? ACE is claiming it has the cure to the achieevement gap? I find it hard to believe. Nobody wants to go on with the so-called achievement gap. This is not a debate about whether to solve the problem. It's about HOW to solve the problem. Even more fundamentally, it's about what IS the problem exactly? No one is expecting children to learn to read on their own (although a remarkable number do.) No one is sayign we've got the "wrong" students. (At least I'm not.) I am saying everything I've read and other elementary school teachers I've talked to say ACE is over-selling "scientifically based" reading programs as a cure. Before people pay for it, they might want to think about that. I think all the voters in M/SO are responsible for oveerseeing and providing the education in this town. I think not enough is known about the "achievement gap" to announce phonics will cure it. (Hey, how come nobody hollers at you for pontificating? :-) ) I appreciate that some teachers love phonics and I bet their kids learn very well. But that doesn't amount to science, any more than scientifically-based recipes make for great cooking. You say there is "solid information out there that can stand the test of efficacy." Can you be more specific? I hope you like chocolate angel food cake. kathleen | ||
| lumpynose Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 811 Registered: 3-2002 |
Why no one hollers at Suzanne Ryan for pontificating: Harpo- 1378 Suzanne Ryan- 31  | ||
| wharfrat Citizen Username: Wharfrat Post Number: 1012 Registered: 6-2001 |
Lumpy- 31 under her name.... | ||
| nan Citizen Username: Nan Post Number: 1213 Registered: 2-2001 |
Lumpy, Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Rod Paige or Reid Lyon are running for BOE. Maybe you should actually read one of my posts before commenting. | ||
| harpo Citizen Username: Harpo Post Number: 1383 Registered: 6-2001 |
Look who's talking. You must be pushing 10,000 by now, lumpy. Maybe I should post from a ranch on the hill. | ||
| William Ralph Gifford III Citizen Username: Williamgif Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hello, my name is William Gifford. I am a senior at Columbia High School and I am running for the Board Of Education. As another year passes, Columbia High School seems to be falling apart quicker and quicker. Our public education needs more support and more funding. More than ever we need our community to support the public schools. As a student in Columbia, I am very knowledgeable of the problems that our schools face. Everyday I walk the hallways and I hear the hardships of the janitors who have to pay for there own supplies and I see the students who hesitate to read aloud in class, because sadly they can’t. I see the low level classes filled with black students and I see the high level classes filled with white students. We need to make changes! First we must admit that Columbia High School is not the school it was years ago. Right now the district is trying to maintain educational excellence, when we really need to be making changes so that we can achieve it. For years Columbia has been known for its variety of choices for students: now elective classes are being cut by the dozen. We need to restore the privilege of choice to the students of our district. As a candidate for the Board of Education, I want to work harder on closing the achievement gap in the district. Not enough is being done to solve this problem. Also, I want to restore Maplewood and South Orange’s reputation for having excellent public schools. To do this we will need greater support from the larger community so that the needs of our schools are adequately funded. If elected I promise to work hard on the issues and gain the support of a community so all children are given the chance to succeed. On APRIL 20th VOTE WILLIAM GIFFORD FOR THE BOARD OF EDUCATION Yours, William Gifford If you have any questions please contact me at Qsociety@hotmail.com |
