| Author |
Message |
    
Dgm
Citizen
Username: Dgm
Post Number: 49
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 5, 2002 - 9:53 am: | 
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So much for my redlining theory. PSEG is very democratic about sharing their capacity deficiency. Write to the Public Utility Commission. |
Lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1001
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 5, 2002 - 11:01 am: |
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Everyone loves the idea of solar power and fuel cells, and maybe one day they will be inexpensive enough to compete with mass systems like PSE&G's. But not only are they not yet competitive, you're suggesting that they be a redundant supply, so we should pay for both modes for the very rare event of overutilization. Power outages stink, but I doubt most people would be willing to pay substantially more to be able to avoid them. This isn't the third world, our power is basically very reliable. I suggest that the solution is for people to find some backup plan, like going to the pool, for power outages. |
Sammy827
Citizen
Username: Sammy827
Post Number: 159
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 5, 2002 - 11:18 pm: |
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FYI, I heard tht PSEG conducted "rolling brownouts" in order to minimize power usage throughout Essex County...they basically picked a few zones and blacked us out in order to save energy as a whole in the county. I hope that anyone who lost power yesterday will call them and demand a refund for the forced lack of electricity, I know I will! |
Edmay
Citizen
Username: Edmay
Post Number: 426
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 5, 2002 - 11:24 pm: |
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I agree
Demand a refund for the power outrage |
Lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1005
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 6, 2002 - 8:28 am: |
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A "refund" is when you get money back that you spent. You didn't spend anything here, because the charges from PSE&G are based on the electricity you use. So they actually saved you money! |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 3286
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 6, 2002 - 10:55 am: |
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Except for all the ice cream you had to throw out. |
Lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1007
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 6, 2002 - 11:11 am: |
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This reminds me: My guess is that my power was out for about 6-6.5 hours. I didn't open my freezer during that period. Meat & chicken in there should still be OK I would think. Let me know. If I don't answer messages I'm probably in the emergency room. |
Edmay
Citizen
Username: Edmay
Post Number: 428
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 6, 2002 - 8:01 pm: |
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As a consultant I make $xxx per hour.
If PSEG shuts me down it costs me $xxx per hour.
Similarly what about all the busineeses at IVY HILL that were shut down.
The supermarket lost business and had melted ice cream to boot.
What if I was on a life saving device? |
Notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 312
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 2:08 pm: |
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I like Edmay's idea about solar panels on our roofs to help sustain the grid. They don't need to be there solely for the event of power failure, they can contribute to the grid every day from sunrise to sunset. There's a common misconception that photovoltaic power is not competitive price-wise compared with burning dead dinosaurs (fossil fuels). Thing is, such comparisons rarely incorporate our tax dollars that are spent on massive subsidies for the fossil fuel industry. Also, maintenance costs on solar systems are extremely low compared to fossil fuel. And if you factor in health care costs related to hospital visits caused by air pollution, solar looks pretty darn cost-effective to me. |
Jfw
Citizen
Username: Jfw
Post Number: 17
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 2:43 pm: |
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my understanding is that the chief limitation of solar power is storing energy for use at times when the sun isn't out. solar panels have become much more advanced over the last couple of decades, but storage technology hasn't kept up.
seems to me that unless solar energy can deliver the goods around the clock, it's not going to be a viable mainstream alternative.
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Lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1010
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 3:30 pm: |
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When the grid goes out in a thunderstorm your solar panels won't do you much good, night or day. In fairness to Ed, he also mentioned batteries and fuel cells. Batteries large enough to run a house would be terribly expensive and fuel cells are not cheap or reliable enough for that level of power either. The only possibly competitive solution for a house would be a small backup generator (anybody still have their Y2K generators?). Not a very green approach.
Notehead: The solar panel industry was built on government subsidies. Had it not been for government contracts for space, the coast guard, transportation and so on, solar panels would be even less affordable than they are now. (And ironically, it also grew as a power system for off-shore oil rigs.) But they're only affordable in areas where fossil fuels are far more expensive than they are in the US (I know they're popular in Israel, for example - big surprise, since they no oil and lots of sun). Yes, if we made oil far more expensive solar would be more competitive. Big deal. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 3309
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 7:41 pm: |
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I find geothermal interesting.
http://www.eren.doe.gov/geothermal/geobasics.html |
Edmay
Citizen
Username: Edmay
Post Number: 455
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 11, 2002 - 1:30 am: |
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Maybe we could tap into the geothermal springs in the reservation or put windmills on top of the reservation. |
Notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 313
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 12, 2002 - 10:16 am: |
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Lseltzer - good points. Personally, I think renewable energy is worth the extra cost, but its very subjective. If the subsidies given to the fossil fuel industry were instead given to the renewable energy sector, the price of solar would come way, way down.
Jfw - I agree that energy storage technology hasn't really kept pace with solar cell development. However when the price of solar systems is discussed, it usually includes the cost of sufficient battery power to completely power your home for about 3 days. |
Lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1019
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 12, 2002 - 11:20 am: |
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Notehead - I assume in an area like this you'd also have to be concerned about them getting covered with snow or leaves.
I checked a couple residential solar power vendor sites and they usually talk about batteries sufficient for 5-10 days; remember, it can easily be cloudy here for more than 3 days. I suppose you could also have the grid as a backup, but that still leaves all the equipment in the house far more expensive than normal. |
Notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 314
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 12, 2002 - 4:17 pm: |
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That's true. Covered panels don't do nothin'. A properly sized PV system should be able to provide enough power on a moderately cloudy day, and we're not north enough to worry about multiple days of near-total darkness.
Another consideration, though, is "pay-off" time. The actual source of energy--sunshine--is free. The operating /maintenance costs of solar systems, as I mentioned, are reeeeally low. Panels are generally warranted for 25 years or more. It used to take 20 years or so before a system could be said to have "paid for itself" but now the pay-off time is below ten years, even as short as 5 depending on where you live and what you buy. At that point, your power is virtually free. I plan on going solar within five years, luck and bank balance permitting, and I'm surprised that more people around here haven't done so. |
Lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1022
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 12, 2002 - 4:30 pm: |
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From what I saw the batteries were warranted for 7 years, and they're not cheap. Does all this include whatever hardware is necessary to switch to battery or the grid if necessary? What does all this cost? |
Edmay
Citizen
Username: Edmay
Post Number: 469
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 12, 2002 - 5:45 pm: |
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Notehead
Thanks for coming to my defense. I knew there was a way to use sunshine economically to provide for some of the energy usage in my home. I was a little rusty on the subject - the last time I looked into it was 1972 for my senior project at Stevens Tech. We studied solar, fuel cells, geothermal and magnetohydrodynamics. I guess MHD is out of the picture use at home. But geothermal (as indicated in the site Dave linked) makes sense in some places. Fuel cells I guess have special applications. But solar makes sense even now, even today, even in MOL-landia. Where can I find out more about it? |
Notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 315
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 6:02 pm: |
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Sorry, I was outta touch for a bit there.
I hope this doesn't seem like a cop-out but costs vary quite a bit depending on the load you need to produce, your location, and the gear you go with. For example, using nickel metal hydride (nimh) batteries costs a lot more than lead-acid, but they're just better batteries Buying systems as a package can in fact be pricier than buying everything separately, because stuff will be pre-wired and professionally matched, etc.
One of the best resources is Home Power magazine, and past issues are free online:
www.homepower.com
Also, try these:
www.solarliving.org
www.solarenergy.org |
Edmay
Citizen
Username: Edmay
Post Number: 507
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 3:02 am: |
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Thank you Notehead
Those were cool websites or hot
depending on weather you are cooling or heating |
Notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 324
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 1:50 pm: |
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Well, I was hoping the power failure issue would become a distant memory... then I stopped home at noon to find that I had no power at my house. Called PSEG and they didn't have any indication of a problem in my area. I live on Academy a couple of blocks from CHS. Still not resolved as of 1:45. Anybody else have any problems today? |
Jem
Citizen
Username: Jem
Post Number: 563
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 3:04 pm: |
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Yes, our area lost power for about 2.5 hours - I left the house and just came back to find the power back on, much faster than PSE&G had indicated would be the case. They'd said it might not be back until 5:00. |
Edmay
Citizen
Username: Edmay
Post Number: 553
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 6:37 pm: |
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I wonder WHY it went out and what is PSEG's corrective action. |
Njjoseph
Supporter
Username: Njjoseph
Post Number: 1626
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 7:30 am: |
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Did power go out again last night? I had power, but a few houses in my view looked exceptionally dark at 4:00 A.M. |
Edmay
Citizen
Username: Edmay
Post Number: 573
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 8:35 pm: |
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Maybe they are painted black? |
Notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 325
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 2:54 pm: |
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I'm glad, of course, that the power was back on within a few hours, but I was told that I'd be called with a status, and I never was. That's annoying - I want to know what happened. |
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