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Elizabeth
Citizen
Username: Elizabeth
Post Number: 146
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 9:27 am: | 
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I tried to post this in the "debate" section but my post wasn't accepted. I guess that area is only for the candidates?
I am a newcomer to South Orange who learns a lot about community issues by reading the discussions on MOL.
I was looking forward to some lively, informative, factual, intelligent, respectful debate in election area and am disappointed that the incumbents have not made use of this forum, either by posting on the thread Dave started for them, or by responding to Mr. O'Leary's posts in the "open south orange" thread.
Beth Johnson Tucker
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NancyJanow
Citizen
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 811
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 9:49 am: |
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Hi Beth, I agree that it would be much better if ALL the candidates on both Lines A and B used the forum to better help us residents understand the issues and their platforms, but it is encouraging that both Mark Rosner of Line A and Brian O'Leary of Line B are both so willing to post and respond. While I am sure that some of the other candidates are a little postaphobic, behaps some of their supporters can help them out and show them the benefits of appearing on MOL.
Anyway, hope to see you at the debate Wed.
NCJ aka LL
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openspacer
Citizen
Username: Openspacer
Post Number: 42
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 12:24 pm: |
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Nancy,
I am seeing posts from Eric DeVaris and David Lackey of Line B as well.
Dan Shelffo
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Elizabeth
Citizen
Username: Elizabeth
Post Number: 147
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 8:10 am: |
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I will try to make the Wednesday debate (thanks Nancy) but if I can't, MOL remains the best place for me to witness a back-and-forth between the candidates.
I wish the incumbents realized that their failure to post in the election section has the unfortunate result of giving credibility to their opponents' claim that they are unresponsive to citizen's concerns.
I haven't made up my mind how I will vote. Like everyone else I am concerned that there are more empty store fronts than when we moved here three years ago. But I am willing to listen to explanations.
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mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 224
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 10:10 am: |
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As a resident, I am also disappointed in the lack of willingness by Calabrese, Taylow & Rosen to engage the residents here online.
Although, if I was Mark, I'd be furious that his runningmates have left him to hang out to dry and take all the blame. Ironically, because of Mark's willingness to take the heat here on his own I think he has earned some respect, despite his runningmates, and could very well get to keep his seat with our new Village President - Brian O'Leary! |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 295
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 12:43 pm: |
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Elizabeth: Actually, there are less empty storefronts today than there was four years ago.
There are lots of reasons why a business picks a location. There are some empty stores that are clearly the fault of the landlords. Some landlords have ridiculous expectations of the potential rental income and yet do nothing to fix up their space.
The hope is that when the Beifus construction is complete, there will be 11,000 sq. feet of new retail space. The rug dealer is renovating his space as well as the other buidlings he owns and all his space is already spoken for.
A new restaurant opened on Irvington Ave. the other day. In fact the whole ave. is scheduled for work (improvements similar to what was done on S. Orange Ave) and that should attract other new businesses.
The South Orange Grille (formerly Stuft Shirt) is scheduled to open this week and is absolutely beautiful inside.
A new cafe is opening where Village Kids was and that space was empty for less than two months before a new lease was signed.
For those who wonder why a store like Old Navy or Barnes & Noble do not come to S. Orange (I get asked about those two most often). The larger chain stores look for locations that are on a major road or with direct access to a major road and they need more space than most for parking.
The men's clothing store that was on S. Orange Ave (next to Bagels Abroad) was available for less than one month before being rented out to a "general store" by someone who owns three other stores in the area including Milburn and Livingston.
Also, Main Street has also looked to help bring businesses to the downtown and they continue to help. If the DMC is created (and I expect that it will), business recruitment will be one of the main goals as well as working with landlords to "teach" them how to make their space more attractive and to be able to compete with the new construction.
Another problem is trying to encourage current businesses to spruce up their stores. A new business does not want to open up next door to a store that looks run down or one that is never open. Some landlords put in the lease that a store must be open a minium number of hours a week and I think that is important. I won't mention any businesses on here, but I think we all know several that could use a new sign and a fresh coat of paint at the least.
Trustee election is on May 13th.
www.leadershipwithvision.org
Vote Line A
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Elizabeth
Citizen
Username: Elizabeth
Post Number: 154
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 9:47 am: |
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I am not going to let this go.
It's been 11 days since our moderator posted the first two debate questions in the debate area. So far only the open south orange slate has responded.
Why? |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 299
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 10:01 am: |
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Elizabeth: It has been a very hectic past two weeks for myself and I have been out almost every night at meetings (not complaining, just a fact). As it is I dedicate a lot of time to this board and a lot of the answers to questions are in my daily posts. I think I have made myself very available to the public not only on this board, but in general. I get several e-mails a day and I respond to everyone of them.
There is a live debate at the middle school tomorrow night.
I will try to put a comprehensive post in that section this weekend which will still leave plenty of time for follow-up questions and comments.
Trustee election is on May 13th.
www.leadershipwithvision.org
Vote Line A
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peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 68
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 11:02 am: |
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oh come on folks -- this is NOT the place for reasonable political debate. its not representative of the village and the format is just too limited to allow discourse.
i've lived in SO for about 2 years -- and lately I've begun to ask my neighbors, parents of my kids friends, etc about their use of MOL. NOT ONE posts, few go to the site (sorry Dave! I love this site FWIW!)
And to expect that candidates, with full time jobs (i assume they are all gainfully employed?), families, and hopefully interests beyond cyberspace and politics to be answering every question online is absurd. personally, I'd prefer both the incumbents and the challengers spend their time putting on a real campaign than spend too much time in the cyber world.
That's IMO, of course.
Pete
(and I'm only posting here in the middle of the day b/c I'm home sick!) |
Elizabeth
Citizen
Username: Elizabeth
Post Number: 155
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 11:12 am: |
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Dear Mark Rosner--I really do appreciate all your posts here and your obvious responsiveness. But I still think that a "virtual debate area" where all the candidates can have a sustained discussion/back-and-forth about the issues is a very valuable thing for the VOTERS.
I do read the postings in the SO Specific area and am well aware that you spend a lot of time responding to citizen remarks. Your postings in SO Specific are helpful, but since a lot of the posts are directed at officials who do not respond, I frequently find these threads frustrating.
There are several advantages to an ongoing "virtual debate" area:
1. people who cannot attend the debate on Wednesday still have a chance to hear the candidates' views.
2. candidates have a chance to think about their responses, look up information, double check their facts and then frame a response which is comprehensive and probably much more thorough than a "live" response.
3. There's a lot more time to really get to the bottom of difficult issues--the voter who hasn't made up her mind has a better chance of deciding which candidates are full of hot air, empty promises or false claims and which ones really seem to know what they are doing.
Meanwhile, I hope your running mates are sufficiently grateful for all the time you spend responding to posts on MOL. |
doublea
Citizen
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 54
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 11:17 am: |
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Pete - Hi; were neighbors. To a large extent I agree with you. Nevertheless, the postings on this board have some effect; at least that was my impression watching the discssion of the Budget by the Board of Trustees last night. Maybe nwyave has some thoughts on this matter. |
Elizabeth
Citizen
Username: Elizabeth
Post Number: 156
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 11:26 am: |
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Pete: you posted your response while I was composing mine.
I agree with you--candidates don't have time to respond to every little question. But "putting on a real campaign" involves responding to the people you're running against. That's why they should participate in the virtual debate area.
I have no idea how many people read MOL so don't know whether you're right in implying that it's a waste of time for candidates to worry about cyber-discussion.
However, if someone wins by one vote I'll be on here immediately claiming that "MOL made the difference" !!!
(I hope you feel better soon and that none of your symptoms are SARS-like)
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mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 228
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 11:45 am: |
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It's very obvious that the Trustees READ the posts here (one example was Theroux's comment at the start of last night's meeting joking about .com versus .org).
However, it is very unfortunate that they choose not to engage in a discussion here (with the exception of Mark, of course).
Ironically, much of the debate here, so far, has been between Mark & Brian O'Leary who are technically not even running against each other.
Brian is only running directly against Bill Calabrese for Village President. Mark is running for one of the 3 available Trustee seats. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 69
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 11:48 am: |
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Hi Elizabeth -- point well taken about "winning by one vote." I guess my observation so far is that all the candidates have good intentions. Whom each of us believe can act on those intentions may be what the election is based on. And doublea -- I think this is a *great* place -- for those of us who participate. I just don't think its a large number of voters.
And thanks -- I'm recovering from double pneumonia (and my daughter was sick with similar symptoms at the same time)-- and you can bet I got a lot of questions about SARS! And on that subject -- the epidemiologist told me that a SHU student was suspected of having SARS. I have not seen anything about that case in the press??
Pete |
doublea
Citizen
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 55
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 11:52 am: |
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Yeah, I caught that too (couldn't miss it). And it would have been more correct to say they're aware of what's said here. Meanwhile, so there isn't any thread drift, we'll keep discussions of the budget for another thread. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 4620
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 11:52 am: |
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Pete, I couldn't disagree more.
Some people campaigning prefer the anonymity and one-sidedness and detachment of a mailing (the so-called "real campaign"); others think that engaging in ongoing discourse is more valuable. Those who engage the public are probably better suited to the job of public servant. As for the cyber world, people who read MOL are 5x more likely to vote in a BOE election and twice as likely to vote in general elections. People in the "cyber world" are more fully engaged in their communities. (And I know people who SAY they don't post, but actually DO.)
I began my career as a press secretary on a county executive campaign in Bergen. I've been involved with camapaigns for several congressmen working on staff as well as on the consulting side. I know very well what goes into "real campaigns" -- direct mail, cable TV and press conferences. In short, a one-to-many communications. There's actually nothing useful about much campaign propaganda. It's two sides telling two fictions that can fit on the back of a postcard. |
woodstock
Citizen
Username: Woodstock
Post Number: 111
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 12:07 pm: |
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Given the open seats and the people posting, I guess all the candidates posting could be elected. Imagine an "O'Leary-DeVaris-Lackey-Rosner" slate... |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 70
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 12:08 pm: |
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Hello Dave --
I don't disagree with you. Just a few years ago when I was in new media -- I authored a study for The New York Times that proved digital media can and does have an impact on elections. Indeed -- I'd say that most of us here are not just idly online, but clearly intereseted in making a change.
My point is, however, that I believe MANY (most?!) SO or MW voters are not online as part of this discussion - and as such this is not the most effective place for political debate. Look at total $$ spent on campaigns in general -- a relatively small amount is spent on a web presence and web advertising compared to other media.
I don't argue the effectiveness of online -- but I believe the scale is just not broad enough.
Thanks for the comments --
Pete |
doublea
Citizen
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 56
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 12:11 pm: |
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Sorry for all the postings -my posting above "Yeah, I caught it too..." was referring to Mayhew's comment about Trustee Theroux's reference to .com, not to Pete's double pneumonia. And Dave, your explanation is pretty convincing. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 4621
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 12:30 pm: |
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Pete, it may have something to do with our promotional budget for MOL: $0.00  Most find it through word of mouth.
Another aspect that makes it tough to get and retain people is the often nasty tone some posters use, which can drive some people away. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 301
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 1:47 pm: |
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Elizabeth, points well taken and I will try and get my posts up by Saturday (no promises). I do work and somedays are very hectic. One of the problems with this format is that if I post something and someone responds there might be 20 new posts by the time I get back online. Some people seem to expect an immediate response and that is not always possible.
Mayhewdrive: I thought about the fact that I am not running directly against Brian, but hey, I get caught up in the SOL (southorangeonline) back and forth discussions.
Dave:I think you are right how some posters are cleary turned off by certain posters who are not only nasty, but they hide behind an anonymous name. However, overall the forum works although I am sure there are ways to make it better.
Trustee election is on May 13th.
www.leadershipwithvision.org
Vote Line A
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Elizabeth
Citizen
Username: Elizabeth
Post Number: 158
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 5:44 pm: |
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SOL (southorangeonline) --Hey, I like that.
Or SOOL. Then we could have a slogan
"SOOL to be cool." |
Eric DeVaris
Citizen
Username: Eric_devaris
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:28 am: |
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I believe that the exchange of opinions on this board is a tremendous service to the community and a valuable tool for electoral discourse between the public, no matter how small in numbers, and the candidates.
One of the things I am taught in this campaign - my first one - is that the more I communicate with people the more I learn about South Orange, and the more voters I get interested to vote. So, I value every moment I spent on a one-to-one basis talking South Orange issues with residents of the Village I meet in the street, in the grocery store, in a restaurant, in our coffee clutches...
If, for the same amount of time, I can reach more than one person, via MOL, and get feedback from several people at a time, then I say alleluia! MOL offers an invaluable forum for all candidates and I am happy to participate. I will try to respond to as many threads as humanly possible. MOL is not a substitute for personal contact or a person-to-person debate of candidates, but it is a good complement to them.
Eric DeVaris
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