| Author | Message | ||
     Dave Ross Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 4613 Registered: 5-2001  |
I think it would be "slimy" if it were misleading or derogatory. Instead, it's a way to actually help people find the L-w-V web site while also presenting a means to read the O-SO platform. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 298 Registered: 4-2002 |
I can't answer why other campaigns used .com. All political orginizations and non-profits should use .org. All government agencies should use .gov. However, in this case, Open South Orange waited to see what our name was going to be and then when out and made a decision to buy the domain. In terms of the election, I doubt the outcome will be based on a web page, but I still think it was the wrong when open south orange had made a pledge to run a clean and honest campaign. They might not have crossed that line, but they are certainly tip-toeing in that direction. Trustee election is on May 13th. www.leadershipwithvision.org Vote Line A | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 229 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mark, There was nothing "dishonest" about purchasing a web domain. It further reinforced a point that Bill & Company are reactive, not proactive. Being dishonest would be claiming as our own an award given to another town. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 300 Registered: 4-2002 |
mayhewdrive: I agree there was nothing dishonest and did not mean to imply there was. I just think that it is the kind of behavior that leads to nasty campaigns. Enough said on the subject. As for the Money magazine article, the press release that was sent to the board said both towns were being honored. However, in the most recent issue of "Who What Where" magazine (N.J. edition)it is very clear that they consider South Orange a great place to move and they do mention Maplewood being a sister town. Anyone can read the article on line - http://whowhatmag.com/nj/index.html to read for themselves. Also, the recent articles in the Times and the Star-Ledger, lasy year's article in Savvy Magazine are all other examples that people do recognize that South Orange is one of the better towns in N.J. and certainly I think it is a great place to live. Trustee election is on May 13th. www.leadershipwithvision.org Vote Line A | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 230 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mark, I completely South Orange is a great place to live. But, I also think it can be even better. That article you referenced was nice, but when they butchered the name of Springsteen's drummer ("Max Weinstein, who is a drummer for Bruce Springsteen and a bandleader for Conan O’Brien"), they lost all credibility for me.  | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 302 Registered: 4-2002 |
Well, at least they did not refer to him as Mad Max. The point is this article as well as a lot of other press the village has gotten shows that we are doing some things right. I don't doubt that the village can be better, but we are going in the right direction. Having all this positive press helps bring people to the village and I know that businesses are coming to see what space is available and where they might fit. Trustee election is on May 13th. www.leadershipwithvision.org Vote Line A | ||
| openspacer Citizen Username: Openspacer Post Number: 45 Registered: 6-2001 |
Mark, Campaigning that involves personal attacks is the kind that goes too far. Old Whine, New Bottle and Spot are my definition of personal attacks that don't fit with our community. The re-direct that I set up simply asks the voter to examine both sites and then make an informed vote. It's the web equivalent of you and Brian handing out brochures standing side by side on Sloan Street. If you really feel that a .org should be used what's the problem? Had I not put the re-direct up, people trying to find your site using the .com address would not have been able to. I could have re-directed traffic to any of the billions of websites out there (including ours) without mentioning you guys at all. All I did was tell people there are two sites and then bring them to yours. The incumbents enjoy the use of the Village website, The Gaslight and cable television to get their message out. And please, do not tell me those communications are not political. At least the re-direct offers Villagers a chance to hear more than one side of the redevelopment story. You guys had four years to come up with a name and a site and you just couldn't get it done. You guys had four years to get something accomplished downtown and you just couldn't get it done. I think that's what this debate is about. Dan Shelffo | ||
| Brian O'Leary Citizen Username: Brianoleary Post Number: 1299 Registered: 3-2002 |
I wanted to follow up on the post by woodstock on Monday (4/28). I take responsibility for anything done by or on behalf of the Open South Orange campaign. Period. That includes the redirect from the .com address. I know Dan Shelffo as a soccer parent whose good nature never saw my less-than-adept coaching, a fellow member of the Open Space Advisory Committee, and as a friend. Dan has worked on two recent campaigns, and I have gone to him often enough in the course of this campaign for advice, debate and insight. Dan developed the redirect around the time that the Village had included a four-page insert promoting their view of progress in redevelopment. The Village web site and local cable access also promoted the views of the incumbent team. We feel that we have the right plan for South Orange, and our success depends in part on getting our message out to the many voters whose direct contact with local government is remote. We are competing with incumbents who can use a variety of tools to promote a view that "all is well". We talked some, though not a lot, about taking action to try to level the playing field (things like asking for a moratorium on cable broadcasts, etc.). To a person, all three candidates felt that we needed to stay focused on getting our message out, not denying people the opportunity to hear the other side. As Dan outlined above, the redirect was built to provide access to the .org site. The only other message was a request to look at our site as well. At the time, I thought that was in keeping with the sentiment that we get our message out, but not to the exclusion of other views. I read the thread yesterday and decided that my initial decision was off base and starts to take us off message. I asked Dan to reconfigure the .com address to take you directly to the .org site. He has done just that. We'll work in other ways to build traffic for www.opensouthorange.com. Going back to woodstock's original concern for a moment: as campaigners, and as elected officials, chances are we will continue to make decisions that in hindsight don't look as effective as they did at the time we made them. I think our team has the ability to listen, engage and amend. That's why inclusion is a central part of our message. Thanks for the comments. I hope this helps. www.opensouthorange.com Vote Line B on May 13th | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 303 Registered: 4-2002 |
Dan: I told Brian and you, very cute and very sneaky. If you think you have good reasons to use the other ticket's name to help attract attention to the web site you designed, then fine. However, the redirect takes so long that most people probably just click on your link or look elsewhere. And Dan, it is becoming typical of you to come up with cheap shots... like taking four years to come up with a name for the ticket. For someone who claims to be the person who always takes the high road, I would think you can avoid those kind of comments. Trust me, it would be easy to take pot shots at each of the challengers as it is to make them towards the incumbents. We should be looking to discuss the issues and what everyone can do bo keep improving S. Orange. Brian: I think that during an election the incumbents need to highlight the positives that have happened because the challengers focus on the negatives. For example, your brochure implies that there is nothing happening at the Beifus site. Cleary the plans were approved, demolition has started and all permits have been issued. And more importantly it is private property that has been owned by the same person for years. So we have to get the message out for those who do not know that something did happen. Yes, it took too long because the property owner had been working with many developers and most importantly he did not want to give up his property. We looked to work with him and anyone he wanted to bring to the table. Trustee election is on May 13th. www.leadershipwithvision.org Vote Line A | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 232 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mark, Why has "demolition started" just a few weeks before an election? Why was that burned out Beifus building allowed to sit decaying for at least the past 6 years? Was the property owner ever fined for keeping his property in such disgraceful condition? I would have thought such a hideous eyesore would have been demolished many years ago. Even if it was unknown what was to be built there, the building should have been razed a long time ago. Brian - kudos in your remarks above for having enough character & courage to recognize a decision that may have offended some people and be willing to alter your position, accept responsibility and not look to blame someone else. BTW...as a reminder to everyone there is a candidates debate TONIGHT at 7:30pm in the South Orange Middle School. | ||
| Brian O'Leary Citizen Username: Brianoleary Post Number: 1301 Registered: 3-2002 |
Mark, we have hardly highlighted the negatives. We identified specific issues that we feel are of concern. We also offer a platform that outlines what we will do differently. Look at the threads in the candidates' area or our web site, www.opensouthorange.com for details. You alternate your argument on Beifus between "something is happening" and "there is nothing we could do (to speed things up) because the property is privately owned." It's one or the other, right? You can't claim credit for a project that you had nothing to do with. Line A is also silent on the scale of the project. A five-story wall by the pool is an issue for us. I appreciate that you don't think so, but that's one of those issues we have chosen to focus on. I disagree with your read on Dan's comments. You have had four years to move things forward. That's part of the debate we are having. www.opensouthorange.com Vote Line B on May 13th | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 306 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mayhewdrive: I think anyone who has come to meetings knows that we had been pushing Mr. Beifus for the full four years I was on the board. He set the timetable. I found it very hard to understand why he continued to own what looked like abandoned property while paying his taxes all this time. I only wish that he had started several years ago and that a new building was already put up. He has a whole list of reasons why he could not get anything going. Without going into the details, let's just say it is long past due that something is happening on this site. He had to wait to get all his permits once he had his approval. We did not want him to start until he had everything in place (permits, approvals and finances). The timing is coincidental. If we had wanted to time this right, the building would have come down two years ago and the grand opening would have been this week. Trustee election is on May 13th. www.leadershipwithvision.org Vote Line A | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 234 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mark, "Pushing Mr. Beifus" is nice, but my question was whether he was ever fined. I just looked at the Village code on the Village website (http://www.southorange.org/general_code_online.htm) & Chapter 117 seems to identify many provisions that were violated. I assume that if I ever kept my property in that condition for a week, let along 6 years, it would not have been tolerated. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 308 Registered: 4-2002 |
He was given fines. I just don't like to be the one to publicize if a business is fined. Other businesses have been fined, warned, etc. I don't think it would be fair for me to pick and choose. I did make a request to the News-Record three years ago to print serious violations against any establishment in the paper. They print lots of minor crimes, so I would think they could print these too and maybe that would spark a landlord or building owner to react. Trustee election is on May 13th. www.leadershipwithvision.org Vote Line A | ||
| Brian O'Leary Citizen Username: Brianoleary Post Number: 1302 Registered: 3-2002 |
I worry about an environment in which disagreement is considered the same as negative. www.opensouthorange.com Vote Line B on May 13th | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 315 Registered: 4-2002 |
Brian: I was referring to Dan's comment about coming up with a name for the ticket. If you would like me to make cheap shots about the progress of the BOE, let me know. I think you know very well what I am saying about Beifus. We could only push him so far. We did bring developers to him, but there was no way for me to force him to act. So, I will take credit for helping to get him to move forward. I never had a say in the final design of the building and that is the kind of misinformation that I hate to see spread around. His plans were approved by the planning board. At that meeting, not one single member of the public objected to anything at their presentation. Not you, not Mr. DeVaris, Not Mr. Lackey. Main Street had met with the architect and some of their suggestions were implemented. I seem to remember the building being closer to S. Orange Ave and the "five story wall" is not next to the pool. I think that would be the two-story parking area. Since the lounging area for the pool is on the hill, I doubt there will be any shade except right by the southern (and least crowded )area of the pool. Line A is silent on the issue since the project was approved by the planning board. They are some of the volunteers and professionals that the village includes in the process. We might disagree with their decision, but if we made the decision without them we would have a closed process. The fact is the only complaint about the project came up at a trustee meeting and it dealt with the buffer zone. I abstained on the vote because it sounded like it needed to be addressed and the proper place for the issue to be discussed was the planning board. Brian, have you even seen the plans? Trustee election is on May 13th. www.leadershipwithvision.org Vote Line A | ||
| aneighbor Citizen Username: Aneighbor Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2001 |
I have not posted here in a while and am not sure if this is the right place, but after reading all of this information related to the election, I have one question....With no offense taken by any specific incumbants, wouldn't you think there is a good reason why every other elected official has a limit on how many terms they can hold in office? | ||
| lamppost Citizen Username: Lamppost Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2001 |
The problem in our culture is that being a politician has now become a CAREER instead of a public service. We have embellished it with perks like PENSIONS, cars, cell phones, etc. etc. Not to mention jobs. There is a long list of trustees in this village that left the post for a JOB. Examples: Trustee Ed Matthews became the municipal judge, then the village attorney; Jonathon Rosenbluth became Public Defender; Trustee Barbara Sachs resigned to become the Village Administrator; Christopher M. Hartwyck resigned to become Redevelopment Attorney, and made sure that his sister-in-law Joanne Hartwyck got a job which developed into Code Enforcement Officer, and her husband Mark Hartwyck became head of the Parking Authority. With all this gold in the pot, why would any self respecting politician want a term limit????? | ||
| thoughtful Citizen Username: Thoughtful Post Number: 111 Registered: 6-2001 |
I just tried the leadershipwithvision.com url, and I was immediately taken to the leadership with vision web site. I believe that the only extensions that have strict regulation attached to them are the .edu, which is for accredited institutions of higher education--as administered by EDUCAUSE, and .gov, which is only for federal government web sites. So to say that certain entities are "supposed" to use certain extensions is not really being accurate. When creating a web site, it's pretty much a standard practice to register the affiliated domains, i. e. .net, .org, .biz. To say that Open South Orange waited for Leadership with Vision to announce its name and then regsitered the .com domain shows a lack of planning on the part of the incumbents; after all, it's very easy to find out who has registered what domain. But now that the redirect is in place, will Leadership with Vision be paying Open South Orange for the redirect? | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 318 Registered: 4-2002 |
thoughtful: Just have them send us the bill. By the way, our ticket did not raise the issue about the website. The reporter from the News-Record e-mailed me about the domain name issue and asked me questions about it. I did not ask him who informed him about it. aneighbor: Actually, not all other elected positions have term limits. It is hard to argue against having them, but on the other hand there seems to be very few people who want to step up to the plate and run for a volunteer position. The recent BOE election had only 4 people running for 3 seats. I do congratulate Mr. DeVaris and Mr. Lackey for at least stepping up and running. By the way, this would be a second term for Art Taylor and myself. Lamppost: For being village trustee I do NOT get a pension. I do NOT get a cell phone. I do not get any perks unless you call the privelege of a parking permit a perk. It is a non-paying position that I enjoy and try to do my best. As for the "long list" of people that have decided to use the position as a stepping stone, it is no different that anyone working in private enterprise. When a person works at a job, they often use that job to get a promotion or a better position elsewhere. Are you suggesting that a person should be penalized for being a volunteer to the village? As for being the public defender or prosecutor would hardly qualify as a major coup. The pay is minimal and the hours are long. Again, there is a very short list of attorneys that have been willing to volunteer for those positions. Trustee election is on May 13th. www.leadershipwithvision.org Vote Line A |
