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Brian O'Leary
Citizen
Username: Brianoleary
Post Number: 1362
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 10:35 am: | 
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Four years ago and this week, the incumbents mailed us "7 good reasons" to vote for their ticket. It's interesting to compare some of the claims made four years ago with what we received this week (their words, not mine).
In 1999: "Revitalized village center; Downtown South Orange revitalization is well underway and we pledge to complete the job"... "Plans for our Movie-Multiplex Art Center are complete, discussions are underway to find a new supermarket operator and hotel/office developer."
In 2003: "Revitalized village center; Downtown South Orange revitalization is almost complete and we pledge to complete the job"..."The Focus now is on our last two major projects, New Market Square supermarket, delayed by environmental problems and the South Orange Performing Arts Center, with amended construction schedule to accommodate the needs of new partner Seton Hall."
www.opensouthorange.com
Vote Line B on May 13th
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Brian O'Leary
Citizen
Username: Brianoleary
Post Number: 1363
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 10:38 am: |
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Or what incumbent Bill Calabrese says (spot the difference):
In 1999: "Thanks to you, South Orange has made great progress during my term as Village President. I am proud of our community and all that we were able to accomplish together."
In 2003: "Thanks to you, South Orange has made great progress during my terms as Village President. I am proud of our community and all that we were able to accomplish together."
www.opensouthorange.com
Vote Line B on May 13th
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Brian O'Leary
Citizen
Username: Brianoleary
Post Number: 1364
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 10:41 am: |
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Actually, there is a difference: in 1999, reason #7 was "Proposed quarry development - we are against it!" This year, reason #7 is "Because we get it done", with a list of things completed "under our leadership". The quarry development somehow missed this list.
www.opensouthorange.com
Vote Line B on May 13th
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 360
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 10:52 am: |
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The quarry missed the list since it has been a Planning Board issue. I do not think it is proper to offer opinions on a subject that is currently being discussed by them.
Not to mention that since Bill Calabrese is on the ticket and he is not allowed to comment on the quarry. That issue has been raised in another thread.
Remember to Vote Line A on May 13th
www.leadershipwithvision.org
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bets
Citizen
Username: Bets
Post Number: 298
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 10:53 am: |
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At least they finally admit publicly that the supermarket was delayed by environmental problems. Now if they'd just acknowledge that their eagerness to condemn the property contributed to their missing that environmental problem.... |
mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 257
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 11:36 am: |
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One thing that has bothered me about that issue, Bets, is how was the Supermarket was allowed to exist with "environmental problems" for so long. As I have heard, there was asbestos, as well as buried oil tanks from what used to be some sort of gas station on that site.
I always knew that Supermarket was dirty & disgusting when it was open, but I had no idea it was "dangerous", as well.  |
mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 258
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 11:39 am: |
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BTW..my post above was not meant to be a "dig"...I'm honestly just curious why the Board of Health or some other body didn't address those issues. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 4650
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 12:13 pm: |
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Is the site now classified as a brownfield? What are the contaminants? |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 366
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 3:46 pm: |
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An underground oil tank. No big deal and not that uncommon.
As for the asbestos in the building it is almost impossible to find an old structure in the Northeast with asbestos. The problem arises when it is not contained.
Remember to Vote Line A on May 13th
www.leadershipwithvision.org
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snshirsch
Citizen
Username: Snshirsch
Post Number: 29
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 9:03 am: |
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Not knowing where to post a reply to the debate area....
Has the market really only been closed for 2 1/2 years? It seems much longer than that. As for the buildings in Montclair and Millburn, my guess would be that those towns have a much higher rate of commercial development than South Orange can ever attain in its small village center (and hence much higher tax income). The Hahne's and Saks buildings are also not part of the central shopping areas of Millburn and Montclair. While it may be good for them to have already proceeded with new development you have to wonder if they have been more selective than South Orange rush to condominiums. My impression would be that if Montclair or Millburn wanted Condo development, the developers would be lining up to build. South Orange should seriously look at the rate of condo building in light of the significant vacancy rate at the Gaslight Commons. At what point do the owners begin reducing rents in order to attract renters. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 369
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 9:34 am: |
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It has really only been 2 and 1/2 years. It does seem longer because the prior owners of the supremarket had let it deterioate so much it look abandoned.
Actually, the Hahnes and Saks buildings are considered the heart of their downtowns. Montclair has been trying desperately to get a developer and it looks like they are going ahead with a seven story apartment building. The old Stop + Shop tried for years to put a supermarket there and were denied by the town. When Saks was open that was the prime downtown area for Milburn and I think there would be a lot or large stores that would entertain opening in that location. My point is that in comparison to those towns we have been able to make far more significant progress.
The gaslight commons is 75% occupied with only the smaller apartments available. The two bedroom apartments were rented out fairly quickly. They have already reduced the rents (less than $100.00 on average) on some of the one bedroom apartments but more importantly they reduced the amount needed for the security deposit. When renters saw the size of the security deposit they looked elsewhere or considered buying a home.
One other factor that contributed to them not meeting their goal of being 100% occuppied sooner was 9/11 and the enormous loss of jobs in this area. It looks like they will meet their goal by this fall which is only about six months longer than originally expected.
Remember to Vote Line A on May 13th
www.leadershipwithvision.org
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Brian O'Leary
Citizen
Username: Brianoleary
Post Number: 1375
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 9:56 am: |
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Consistency alert. Condos are soft because of job loss, but home prices and sales are strong because of ...
www.opensouthorange.com
Vote Line B on May 13th
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 371
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 10:26 am: |
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Safe to ignore the consistency alert:
I said apartment rentals are off, not condos. In the case of Gaslight Commons, their initial marketing thrust was to young executives which was the segment of the job market that was hit hardest with the recent job losses. Again, I said the only apartments that are available are the smaller ones which is a comletely different market than homes and condos.
Home prices and sales are strong in S. Orange due to the current elected officials. Ok, there are other factors including low interest rates and the midtown direct, but clearly the increase in prices in S. Orange has been higher than any other town in the area and on this train line.
Remember to Vote Line A on May 13th
www.leadershipwithvision.org
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doublea
Citizen
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 78
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 11:12 am: |
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M.Rosner: I don't have the numbers in front of me, but as I recall Maplewood had a higher percentage increase in house prices than South Orange, or at least the same. Kind of funny that DeLuca and Ryan are being seriously challenged. Bottom line - it's the midtown direct. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 372
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 11:28 am: |
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I would imagine depending on which time frame you use would sway the increases one way or the other. I had seen a four year window which showed the increase in values of homes in S. Orange to be higher than Maplewood or any other town on the train line.
The Midtown Direct is certainly a major factor in the housing price increases in the area. However, I think there are some other factors too. Some of those factors we control and some we can't. Since we share a school distict with Maplewood we will always have similar property values since the schools are another major factor.
I was really just responding to Brian's comment about being consistent. I think that Ryan and DeLuca are being challenged because of the reval issue and the perception that it was mishandled.
Remember to Vote Line A on May 13th
www.leadershipwithvision.org
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mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 259
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 11:37 am: |
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Just like I think a large reason the incumbents in South Orange are being challenged is for the state of our downtown "redevelopment" and the perception it was mishandled.
Like it or not, perception becomes reality. |
Brian O'Leary
Citizen
Username: Brianoleary
Post Number: 1379
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 12:10 pm: |
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Mark, lseltzer did the research in March, translating the dollar values reported in N J Monthly into percentages. By their measures, the property values in Maplewood increased faster than in South Orange:
South Orange
92 to 97: up 1.96%
97 to 02: up 70.48%
92 to 02: up 73.81%
Maplewood
92 to 97: up 4.53%
97 to 02: up 75.55%
92 to 02: up 83.5%
I don't know the source of the claim that Mark's slate has made about having the highest increase in New Jersey, but it is not supported by this work. FYI, the other community on the midtown direct line, Millburn, is up 97.75% from 92 to 02.
www.opensouthorange.com
Vote Line B on May 13th
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peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 90
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 12:45 pm: |
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I would question *any* real estate value numbers that do not control for issues like age of home, type of home, number of homes in each price category, and starting value of home.
While i have no statistics to prove this -- I have heard (through the re agents) that there are more higher priced homes in SO than Maplewood. If that's so -- then statistically the appreciation of already expensive properties will be lower.
Pete |
Brian O'Leary
Citizen
Username: Brianoleary
Post Number: 1383
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 12:54 pm: |
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I agree with you, Pete. South Orange does have a higher average home value, and these statistics don't take any of that into account.
I don't think that the numbers show that Maplewood is doing better or worse than South Orange. I bring them up because Mark cited the percentage increase and claimed that "Home prices and sales are strong in S. Orange due to the current elected officials". It seems to me that more than that is going on.
Even if I stipulate to the numbers, imagine how much more our homes would be worth if we had a donwtown that we felt reflected what is clearly evident in the quality of homes throughout the rest of South Orange.
www.opensouthorange.com
Vote Line B on May 13th
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peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 92
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 1:05 pm: |
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Brian -- I get your point. Although i might turn it around a bit, given the "one community" ideas floating around --
"imagine how much more our homes 'in South Orange and Maplewood' would be worth if we had a (quality) donwtown..."
I really do think 2 thriving "villages" with great food, movies, and entertainment would be good for both towns!
Pete |
Brian O'Leary
Citizen
Username: Brianoleary
Post Number: 1384
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 1:09 pm: |
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Good edit.... thanks.
www.opensouthorange.com
Vote Line B on May 13th
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 375
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 1:23 pm: |
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Brian, I think you know I was saying that tongue in cheek.
I think it is safe to say the major reason for the increase in property values was the Midtown Direct. The major reason for a continued strong market is the low interest rates.
I do think the new developments will help stabalize property taxes and that will help maintain the property values.
However, the number one factor in maintaining property values is the school system. If the quality of the schools deterioate, it will not matter one bit what happens in the downtown. The young families will move to a town with a better school system.
Right now S. Orange has beautiful homes in great village. We have a good school system but it is not as good as it once was (according to NJ Monthly). The schools need to get back on track and return to the days when it was considered one of the best schools in the country (not just NJ). We do have a downtown that is improving.
The beifus site is still moving forward and there are visible signs of activity. The supermarket plans were approved last night and that project is now ready to move forward. The Seton Hall partnership was formally announced earlier this week by Seton Hall and that project is moving forward. Gaslight Commons is now 75% occupied and Church Street had only one empty apartment as of last week (altough I did hear that was taken over the weekend).
We are clearly making progress and we have done so in a responsible way.
Remember to Vote Line A on May 13th
www.leadershipwithvision.org
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mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 264
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 11:31 pm: |
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I still don't understand why all the "visible signs of activity" have suddenly appeared in the past 60 days. It just smacks of making progress for political timing.
After being told 4 years ago that an Arts Center would begin construction in August 1999 and then again last year holding a very visible & public groundbreaking, the credibility of this "progress" is questionable. Why should people believe it this time? |
ril
Citizen
Username: Ril
Post Number: 76
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 2:26 pm: |
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Since the art center contruction is certainly not imminent, what was the reason for erecting that ugly fence? it blocks the view of people waiting for rides--you can't see who's pulling into the lot, and thus makes the already jammed-up pickup area (shuttles, taxis, cars, construction vehicles & equipment) even worse. Wait till farmers market season!
So what if people were parking there (for the record, not me--I pay for a permit)? It only underscores how desperately we need more commuter parking. In fact, let's forget about the arts center entirely! Build a parking facility--immediate $$$ for the town, and a lot simpler to constuct and operate. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 382
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:08 am: |
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ril: We have added over 300 new commuter parking spaces, but clearly we still need more. We are currently looking at ways of expanding the commuter parking lot on third stree (behind the rescue squad).
We started a jitney service which now covers Montrose and Tuxedo Park and we are seeking additional grants so we can expand the service to the rest of the village. The jitney buses help to relieve traffic and they lessen the need for parking spaces.
Remember to Vote Line A on May 13th
www.leadershipwithvision.org
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bets
Citizen
Username: Bets
Post Number: 308
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 2:46 pm: |
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I'm curious also as to why that chain link fence was covered with plywood - it looks tacky, tacky, tacky! It's also a nice, blank slate for the graffiti artists in town. |
Ed May
Citizen
Username: Edmay
Post Number: 1456
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 3:04 pm: |
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TODAY IS MAY 13
MY MESSAGE TO EVERY SOUTH ORANGE VOTER IS:
VOTE
Ed May
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 394
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 3:18 pm: |
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Ed: good message
A better message: Vote Line A
Remember to Vote Line A on May 13th
www.leadershipwithvision.org
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Brian O'Leary
Citizen
Username: Brianoleary
Post Number: 1414
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 3:20 pm: |
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lol...
www.opensouthorange.com
Vote Line B on May 13th
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Ed May
Citizen
Username: Edmay
Post Number: 1458
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 3:22 pm: |
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A case can be made to vote for Line A and a case can be made for Line B, but no case can be made for failing to vote.
Ed May
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deborahg
Citizen
Username: Deborahg
Post Number: 561
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 7:31 pm: |
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So who won? |
Ed May
Citizen
Username: Edmay
Post Number: 1472
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 9:04 pm: |
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I can tell you this ~ there was no news flash on channels 19 / 35. Did anyone try calling the News-Record to find out?
Ed May
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