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South Beach Gal
Citizen
Username: South_beach_gal
Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 7:34 am: | 
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Line A may have "won big" but it's my opinion that South Orange did not. It's probably going to be another four years of the same old promises. When my husband and I moved here in 1996, it seemed things were happening for this town. However, over the past couple of years, progress has slowed to a mere crawl. What happened? We are only two of the very many people dissatisfied with the current status of the town. Our main street is depressing. Stores stay vacant for years. I can't even buy a quart of milk and a loaf of bread in town. And they want to build a hotel!? I can only hope that Mr. Calabrese and the trustees will realize that for all the votes they didn't muster, that's at least the number of disgruntled South Orange citizens. I also hope that they will take a look at that ten-year-old plan and revise it. Maybe we citizens can have some input as to what is really needed... |
argon_smythe
Citizen
Username: Argon_smythe
Post Number: 57
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 8:31 am: |
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My theory is that it is a general phenomenon that when people move here they feel that "things are happening" in this town and then after they live here for several years get the feeling that "things have slowed to a mere crawl."
However, the recent election indicates that there are many in this town who feel differently.
I therefore speculate that as a newcomer we are hit with a bit of a barrage about all the progress that's taken place, then the day to day reality sets in and the fact of the matter is that these projects do take a lot of time to complete.
I speculate that the voting block making up the majority in this election must most likely consist of A) the very recent transplants who 'bought' the town and are not prepared to embrace a 'regime change' without some history under their belts, and B) longtime residents who have 'mellowed with age' and are of the opinion that progress takes time. The 'middle minority' wants it better, faster, cheaper, but doesn't have the volume to drive the votes.
Pure speculation on my part.
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South Beach Gal
Citizen
Username: South_beach_gal
Post Number: 6
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 10:03 am: |
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I agree that progress takes time and never expected this town to revitalize overnight. However, having to wait years for something so basic as a grocery store indicates a sad state of affairs. But it's even more than just the lack of a grocery store that has many people dissatisfied: The general direction of the town needs to be looked at and maybe a new plan drawn up. For example, the talk of more apartments being built before the present ones have been filled seems counter-productive to a town which is still unable to offer basics to the people already here. Why make matters worse? We need more businesses that appeal to the town's residents and a design that makes it desireable to stay in town rather than heading elsewhere to hang out. Let's rework the plan while we still have some space left. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 395
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 10:16 am: |
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Argon: I think your analysis is on target.
SouthBeach Gal: First, this board has never endorsed the idea of bringing a hotel to town. A developer wanted that to happen and went direct to the newspaper and is why you have not heard from them since.
Second, Pathmark sells bread and milk and is in S. Orange. For years there was a Shop-Rite in town, yet most villagers did not use the store for any purpose. The developer who is bringing a market to town recently got his approval from the planning board. They have a supermarket operator and they will be looking to start construction this fall (It takes around 90 days to get all the permits some of which come from the county or state).
Third, very few stores stay vacant that are "rentable". In fact the biggest complaint we get from businesses outside the village is that they wish we had more retail space. Over the next few years there is going to be over 16,000 Sq. feet of new retail space. That means the current landlords and business owners are going to have to make improvements to stay competitive.
Finally, I do listen to input from a lot of residents and business owners. I think what you mean is that sometimes we might do something that you disagree with. However there are a lot of people who we agree with and we use their input. I do think everyone agrees that the goal is to continue to improve S. Orange in a responsible manner.
Remember to Vote Line A on May 13th
www.leadershipwithvision.org
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peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 101
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 10:34 am: |
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Mark -- first of all congrats on the win! ALong with the election discussion - this morning the buzz at the train station was about SOPAC -- and that it won't be showing "general" movies -- but more art type movies. Perhaps this info is elsewhere -- but is that so? I would consider that a mistake. As the Dad of a 10th & 1st grader -- nothing would be better than a place for them to go & to take them to (in town) -- and you can bet that lunch, dinner, ice cream, pizza, whatever would be part of it! Same for me and my friends ;-). Otherwise we risk the continued perception that the "best place about SO is Maplewood Village."
Anyway -- now that the election is over -- where can I find out more about SOPAC and getting involved? Pete |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 397
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 10:44 am: |
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Pete: The movie operator has not yet been selected. Two of the people who want to run that portion are S. Orange residents. I think the desire is to keep the blockbuster type movies out but fine for general films.
The best way to get more involved is to come to the SOPAC meetings (next one is scheduled for 5/27 at 7:30 in village hall). Next best way is to contact John Gross or Bill Calabrese.
looking forward to seeing you.
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South Beach Gal
Citizen
Username: South_beach_gal
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 11:01 am: |
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M. Rosner, I am aware of Pathmark on the South Orange-Maplewood border, hardly what I call "in town". The ShopeRite was absolutely dirty and dismal, so it's no wonder most villagers wouldn't shop there. Third, according to one store owner I spoke with, they were forced to move out when their rent almost doubled. Yes, let's improve South Orange in a responsible manner. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 398
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 11:27 am: |
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I agree that the Shop-Rite was dirty and dismal. That is why I was happy to see it close. That is why we then condemned the property because we felt it was going to sit there for years and become another Beifus. It took six months to find a developer willing to work with the village and bring in a market. Two years later they have their approval from the planning board and can now start the next stage of the process.
What store moved because their rent almost doubled? If true, it confirms what I have said before that we need responsible landlords who will do their best to maintain their property and do what they can to keep a good business in town.
Feel free to email me privately if you do not want to put the name of the store online. |
Washashore
Citizen
Username: Washashore
Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 11:51 am: |
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Mr. Smythe: I appreciate your speculations as to the causes of OSO's loss. I offer the following in response:
1) Newcomers "not prepared for regime change without history of problems": The problems are many, and many newcomers grasped them and supported OSO. Problems such as:
a) The town condeming and buying the ShopRite site without first having done an environmental audit, only to learn, AFTER paying $1.2 million to become the proud owner of this site (at the recommendation of the Village Attorney who, by the way, has never received an evaluation of his job performance), that the land and the store are contaminated, requiring hundreds of thousands of dollars to remediate.
b) South Orange currently has $35 million of debt. By contrast, the School Board, with a budget three times as large, has a debt of $25 million. Mr O'Leary, the OSO candidate for Village President, was President of the School Board, as well as of its Finance Committee. He did a darn sight better at managing the three-times-as-large school budget, as evidenced by the level of debt, than the incumbents have at managing their much smaller budget with considerably more debt.
c) The incumbents granted the developer of the Gaslight Commons, the LUXURY resdential complex on Third Street one block from the train station from which riders can reach midtown Manhattan in less than 30 minutes, a 30-year tax abatemnet of school and county taxes. That abatement increases your taxes, and mine, to cover this loss.
d) The Planning Board, all the members of which are hand-picked by Billy Calabrese, voted, at 11:30 PM last Thursday evening, to approve the supermarket and residential development on Vose Ave. This without first resolving the legal easement issues that the Gaslight Brewery has to get its delivery trucks in and out; without first resolving the height, design, and parking issues posed by many residents. (Kudos to Mr. Scrobe and Ms. Linarducci for rejecting Billy's strong-armed tactics and voting against this proposal.)
Yes, many residents, newcomers and oldsters alike, understood these problems and desperately voted for change. The OSO campaign, just two months old, compared to Billy's 20 years in office, and the use of his in-town pharmacy and its captive audience to broadcast his message, nonetheless won over 40% of the vote.
While William Shakespeare knew there was something rotten in Denmark, us Washashores know foulness when we smell it. There is indeed something rotten in South Orange. We, the poeple, will out it, no matter how long it takes.
Mr. Smythe, I invite you to join us in this effort, so that when the next election rolls around in two years, the "newcomers" and "oldsters" alike can claim victory for bringing "Action, Inclusion, and Accountability" to the way business is conducted in South Orange. |
South Beach Gal
Citizen
Username: South_beach_gal
Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 11:58 am: |
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rosner,
Thank you for your discretion. I will e-mail you later.
Re: the movie theater that peteglider brought up: Something that would interest alot of people I know and would set South Orange apart in a positive manner would be a theater specializing in foreign films and old films, like the St. Mark's Theater in NYC's East Village used to (and may still). To my knowledge, no one around here shows anything like that. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 103
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 12:32 pm: |
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ABout movies -- I lived near the Rocky Hill Theater (near Princeton/Montgomery) for a long time. They were well established for showing foreign and other "art" films. After about 10 years they finaly expanded to show "regular" movies (and added a couple of theaters, too). Just not enough revenue in the "art" films.
To me that would be great for SO -- it would give SO a distinction and still serve the needs of the community. In my opinion "art" or funky films are just too limited. I, with at least one of my kids, just about every weekend go to West Essex, Maplewood, occasionally Millburn or E Hanover for a night out. It would be GREAT to stay in town -- catch a bite to eat before or after. And if my teen could walk there with her friends and get some pizza -- I'd be thrilled! Pete |
joso
Citizen
Username: Joso
Post Number: 80
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 12:42 pm: |
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Really, what difference does it make what kind of movies are shown, as long as they are not XXX. The Village should not be in the business of selecting the films. Films of general interest or blockbusters are likely to bring more people and families into town than art films. Look at Maplewood (and the crowded streets and businesses on a weekend night. The theater is a disgrace, but it is full. A new theater would be tremendous competition.
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noracoombs
Citizen
Username: Noracoombs
Post Number: 12
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 12:53 pm: |
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Here's my "dream plan" for the movie theater portion of SOPAC: Has anyone contacted the owners/operators of the Angelika Film Center in NYC? I think the idea of an "Angelika NJ" or "Angelika West," complete with art house films, a cafe, etc., would sit well with SO residents, many of whom are NYC expats. It might also attract Seton Hall students, who are looking for something besides the typical mall movie fare.
That kind of idea seems to be working for Montclair--the Claridge and other art house theaters there are always crowded.
IMO, the whole theater portion of SOPAC should be scrapped in favor of an art-house film center. Just think--in a few years, our town could be hosting the South Orange Film Festival! |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 4661
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 12:55 pm: |
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The proposed SO theater is not big enough for blockbusters; the seating is too limited to cover associated IP licensing costs. Only multiplexes can do that. The "St. Mark's" style sounds pretty good. If there is enough of a selection I'd probably go 2x a week. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 104
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 1:01 pm: |
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ANyone have a sense if the Maplewood movie theater is a profitable business? Seems packed -- even though the theaters are small. And hey -- I don't need to have X2 or the Matrix showing on opening weekend -- just something curent enough to interest my kids! Pete |
davec
Citizen
Username: Davec
Post Number: 83
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 1:06 pm: |
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The other alternative is to pick up those "blockbuster" hits after they have been showing for at least 4 weeeks at the megaplex. I think that there is a market of folks who want to see those films in a comfortable setting, but don't want the crowds. |
thegoodsgt
Citizen
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 234
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 1:48 pm: |
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Somebody should appoint noracoombs to the SOPAC board! A partnership with the Angelika? Now THAT is creative and progressive thinking!
Given this flurry of feedback, I think it's obvious that we all need to be involved in local affairs by attending as many public meetings as we can and asking tough questions. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 399
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 2:10 pm: |
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Someone has already contacted the Angelika and someone has looked at their programming etc.
Dave Ross is right about his comments that the size of the our movie theater probably limits what can be shown and the direction of the theater. |
South Beach Gal
Citizen
Username: South_beach_gal
Post Number: 9
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 4:06 pm: |
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Joso,
Who better than the villagers to determine what kind of movies should be shown? We should shoot alot higher than just "not XXX". To have a little something for everyone, the theater could show family oriented movies during daytime hours and the more artsy movies in the evenings. Also, there are plenty of older (and even artsy) movies that families could enjoy. "The Red Balloon" comes to mind immediately. Something different and in good taste is what will draw people here. |
argon_smythe
Citizen
Username: Argon_smythe
Post Number: 59
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 9:04 am: |
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Who better than the villagers? How about the owners/operators? I sure wouldn't agree to operate a theater without being able to be responsive to my customers, who may (hopefully) come not just from within the borders of our town but from other areas as well. Unless each resident is personally planning on frequenting this theater 3 or more nights a week.
The role of government is certainly not to hand pick which movies to show at the local theater, even if that government has exquisite taste!
If you don't allow the operator to be responsive to the market -- within reasonable (no XXX) boundaries -- you're setting up a formula for failure. Better to encourage and convince the operator that there is a market here for this type of theater -- and back it up with your attendance and those admissions fees. Say they do a survey and everyone in town wants "The Red Balloon" marathon weekend, the government mandates it, and then nobody actually shows up and buys the tickets -- that theater is going out of business soon.
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South Beach Gal
Citizen
Username: South_beach_gal
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 10:50 am: |
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argon smythe, I only suggested that the KIND of movies (foreign/old b&w films) be determined by the villagers and mentioned the Red Balloon to show that there are artsy children's movies as well. I also thought this town could do something to set it apart by offering something off the beaten track. Perhaps I am mistaken. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 4672
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 2:08 pm: |
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Here's the only resource the operator needs:
http://www.indiewire.com/ |
alison
Citizen
Username: Alison
Post Number: 15
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 2:26 pm: |
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Noracoombs: Great idea! I live in Maplewood but wanted to also suggest that people take a look at the Jacob Burns theatre in Pleasantville, New York.
It's a theatre (2-3 years old) which is Lincoln Center Film Festival North. It took a lot; a space where once a movie theatre had been (when I was growing up), a person with a passion for film, a willingness of Lincoln Center to join in, an initial benefactor and the fact that Westchester, north of Pleasantville, has become a haven for big film and theatre people. The result? See the New York Times articles over the last year or two. An incredibly successful film center, a real subscription business, classes and lectures, and the revitalizing and expanding of downtown Pleasantville. A somewhat architecturally bungled downtown, Pleasantville never had people at night. P's downtown while always rented is now, according to the Times, thriving at night with restaurants and cafes, etc. etc. It can be done....
Also, Roberts Cinemas' runs the Wellmont in Montclair, perhaps one in Chatham, and used to run the Lost Picture Show where the storage place is next to Home Depot. A mix of art, revival and the artier side of first run. A nice mix. Have they been contacted?
I'm posting this because though I live in Maplewood, and what's good for South Orange is good for us all. |
noracoombs
Citizen
Username: Noracoombs
Post Number: 13
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 2:44 pm: |
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thegoodsgt and allison: Glad you like my AngelikaNJ idea! I think an art house theater would really work in SO, given the success experienced by the places in Montclair and the number of people in SO/M interested in more artsy fare than a Matrix movie (not that there's anything wrong with a Matrix movie...!).
As for getting on the board...Mr. Rosner, isn't it nearly time for one of the trustees to be stepping down from the SOPAC board, as per the "one Trustee replaced each year" rule? When will a Trustee be stepping down--and what's the process for finding a suitable replacement for the SOPAC board? I'm sure that with the wealth of artistic knowledge in SO, many people would be interested in serving on the board.
Here's another idea: has the SOPAC board ever considered putting together some sort of advisory board consisting of SO residents with arts experience/knowhow? These people wouldn't be on the board--just folks that the board could turn to for questions and advice--but their names would be a matter of public record. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 402
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 3:05 pm: |
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Noracoombs: I don't know the timing that a trustee has to step down. The board is going to be expanding and the current volunteers on the board have been considering some names. There are already some volunteers who have participated and will continue to participate.
Anyone who wants to be involved can start by coming to a SOPAC meeting and letting the SOPAC board know. Or they could send a letter with resume to Mr. Gross. I would guess that there will be more people who would want to be there to offer advice than actually be on the board.
We do keep minutes at every meeting with an attendance sheet so it has already become public record.
I don't think an adviosry board will be set up, however there are committees that will be chaired by a board member and volunteers will be solicited to help on some of those committees.
Again, I am not a spokesperson for SOPAC but I will try and answer questions like the ones above.
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argon_smythe
Citizen
Username: Argon_smythe
Post Number: 60
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 4:13 pm: |
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South Beach Gal, I believe ultimately my issue with what you said was your use of the word "determine." I'd say "suggest" or "recommend" would be more appropriate. And I'm definitely all for the "art house" concept. However, first and foremost I'm for the concept of this thing being a success -- not at any cost, but within reasonable limits. If it is not first successful, frankly it won't matter what they show there because it won't be showing for long. Even an XXX theater wouldn't be much of an issue if there were no customers!
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Eric DeVaris
Citizen
Username: Eric_devaris
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 4:38 pm: |
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Dear MOLers and SOOLers,
I have a long list of thankyous with regard to the S.O. elections:
Thank you Dave Ross for giving me the opportunity to participate in the MOL forum.
Thank you all MOLers and SOOLers for allowing me to exchange with you my views and to read yours on issues of our concern.
Thank you Mark Rosner for the civilized debate you engaged me in.
Thank you those of you who voted for me; your votes were not for naught; I pledge to continue my presence on the public scene.
Thank you my running mates Brian O’Leary and David Lackey; your wisdom and courage was my inspiration.
Thank you Roz Diamond, our campaign manager, for your steady guidance.
Thank you all you volunteers for helping, in so many ways, in our campaign.
I plan to continue my presence posting on this board, although I doubt that I can do it as frequently as Brian (1400 posts in 14 months)and Mark (402 posts in 13 months). My time is limited; I am a busy retired man.
Eric DeVaris |
aneighbor
Citizen
Username: Aneighbor
Post Number: 18
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 8:28 pm: |
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One more idea for the SOPAC....what about a theatre and dinner combo? There's one in SoHO, right outside of the Holland Tunnel (I can't think of the name). They show classic films like Breakfast at Tiffany's and also have a place for a nice dinner within the theatre. Does that ring a bell with anyone? |
noracoombs
Citizen
Username: Noracoombs
Post Number: 14
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 9:53 pm: |
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It's called the Screening Room. Very popular place in NYC. |
Edwin R. Matthews
Citizen
Username: Edwinrmatthews
Post Number: 14
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 10:53 pm: |
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While I believe most of the suggestioins I have read above have already been suggested and discussed as part of the discussions for the Performing Arts Center and the movie theaters, I would like to suggest that any and all of these ideas be sent to John Gross directly by letter or email (Jgross@southorange.org). While our tastes might be different hopefully the Art Center will have enough programs to satisfy everybody's tastes |
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