| Author |
Message |
    
E&K
Citizen
Username: Ashmilby
Post Number: 60
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 11:15 pm: |     |
We've decided to go the minivan route. Any thoughts on the Town & Country, Sienna or Odyssey? |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1517
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 6:29 am: | |
Funny you should ask. We're going the same route and have thought about this a lot.
Only the Japanese ones ('03 Mazda MPV and Honda Odyssey, '04 Toyota Sienna) have a disappearing third row, meaning there is a well below floor level behind the row and you can fold the seats down into it to create a large, flat empty area in the back. We've decided we want this and have eliminated all the American minivans, Town and Country included, as a result. The Odyssey's third row is one large and very heavy bench that is too heavy for my wife, so they lose points, even though I'm otherwise happily inclined towards Hondas, having owned 3 excellent ones in the past. (Maybe if they gave me a card to punch so that I got the 10th car free...)
I asked my mechanic and looked around on the Net, especially at epinions.com, and it turns out that Mazdas have a lousy reputation for mechanical quality, especially on the transmission. We really do like the MPV; it's a bit smaller than the Odyssey and Sienna, which are quite large, but if there are problems now I'll feel like a total sucker.
All of which leaves the Sienna, the undisputed king of these things. Problem is, it's like buying a house in Maplewood: there aren't that many of them and it's more expensive than everything else. Any '04 Sienna that comes in, especially the XLE Limited that we want, gets pre-sold and it's hard even to get a test drive. And some of the Toyota dealers are snotty because they know they can sell every car they have 4 times. |
shh
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 544
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 7:06 am: | |
I have a 2001 MPV (bought NEW in 2002, I guess no one loved her). 
So far it's been great. We miss a few things our Outback had, but I guess we could have paid more and gotten them (heated seats, etc.).
The foldaway rear seat has been a real blessing. Every trip to Home Depot my husband takes we do it, and it's very easy to switch. Also, I like that the center row has moveable seats. Right now we took one of them out so we have more floor space for all the stuff we seem to accummulate, plus it makes shopping trips easier.
We haven't had any mechanical problems. My feeling is that we won't keep the car longer than 4/5 years anyway. We got a great price on it from DCH and it's perfect for lugging the kids and all my stuff (I have a business where I need a lot of cargo space to tote my wares) and before we run it into the ground we'll get something new. |
Phil
Citizen
Username: Barleyrooty
Post Number: 640
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 7:31 am: | |
L we went through the process of getting a "hot" car a couple of years ago. In the end I called almost every dealer in the state, and eventually found one who could help me. It was well worth it as I realized after awhile that the reason the car was hot was that it was a great car at a great price. Just my 2c. |
E&K
Citizen
Username: Ashmilby
Post Number: 61
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 10:17 am: | |
Do you guys own or lease your car? We've never leased before. |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1518
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 10:40 am: | |
As with all my cars I plan to keep this for a long time, so leasing makes no sense. This minivan will replace a 92 Civic (120K miles, running great, best offer) |
shh
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 545
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 1:13 pm: | |
I've done both leasing and owning, and even though we haven't kept our cars too long I think owning is better (for now). This way, if you DO decide to keep it for whatever reason, you're not scrambling to find something else, or dealing with a price that's too high considering what you've already paid out. With home equity rates so low, it's easy to buy. |
viva
Citizen
Username: Viva
Post Number: 243
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 2:33 pm: | |
the new chrysler pacifica is a really interesting take on the minivan.... they market it as a touring sedan.... i drove one and really was impressed -- apparently shares some features with mercedez benz since chrysler now is daimer chrysler. if we had been in the market for a minivan we would have gone for it. you can see it right on springfield av. at chrysler jeep. |
pcg
Citizen
Username: Pcg
Post Number: 87
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 10:11 pm: | |
The Town and Country losses a lot of value the momen you drive it off the lot. I am walking away form the lst minivan I will ever own...
Back to SUV's |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1520
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 5:54 am: | |
We looked at the Pacifica. It's really nice, but it's also really expensive and doesn't have a whole lot of room. Looked more like a small SUV than a minivan to me. |
shh
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 546
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 9:30 am: | |
Larry,
I think I saw you and Nadia yesterday getting into the ol' Civic in front of Francesca's.
(Francesca said, "hi Nadia," that kind of gave it away.)  |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1521
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 9:46 am: | |
That was us. I guess that was you in her store. |
shh
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 549
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 9:56 am: | |
Yes! Secret identity revealed. I am the lady in black with the baseball cap! |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 121
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 1:15 pm: | |
Two questions:
1. Why a minivan? It's a good choice, often, but sometimes more vehicle than necessary.
2. Why a new vehicle? I've never bought one, because I think they're too expensive. |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1528
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 3:13 pm: | |
We recently took a trip in our 2002 Accord, not a small car, and with the three of us and all the crap we took there was barely enough room. In a few years I may be shuttling my daughter and friends and soccer equipment around and it will be good to have room to spare.
I've never bought a used vehicle; I guess I wanted to get the most good life out of what I bought. The new minivans are much better than the old ones, so in this case I think I'll stick with the new one. |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 122
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 3:22 pm: | |
Your reasoning is sound. I have alternatives to recommend, but a minivan doesn't sound like a bad idea, either. How many kids do you have?
I like a "nice car" so I tend to buy used luxury cars. I'm on my third Saab now since 1991. I don't spend much on them, and they're pretty nice cars, probably as nice and fancy as the new midpriced cars and minivans. The hatchback offers huge amounts of room, about the same as a station wagon. The back seat is almost as big as in a big Lincoln (which not well known about Saabs). And it drives like a car, because it is a car. Well, it drives like a really nice car. And I'm getting about 26 mpg lately, which I don't think a minivan can claim. Crashworthiness is unsurpassed by any brand, better than any minivan, as is theft resistance.
It also is available with a manual transmission, which may or may not matter to you.
Handling in snow is fantastic.
You get more useful miles per dollar with a used car. Think about how a new car loses market value tremendously in the first year. In fact, it loses 30% the first day. You don't get a hell of a lot of utility for all that depreciation.
Of course, if I had three or more kids, I would probably get a minivan.
Oh, and I normally keep my cars until they reach about 180,000 or 200,000 miles. My current car has 140,000 miles on it. I drive about 24,000 miles a year.
Tom Reingold |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1534
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 1, 2003 - 6:51 am: | |
After all the research we've done we both are inclined towards the Mazda for a bunch of reasons: It's a bit smaller than the others, has all the essential features, the easiest to use third row, and more reasons listed above. As I also said above, we were warned by my mechanic that Mazdas are not reliable, especially the transmissions, and that I found some confirmation of this on Internet discussions.
So how big a sucker would I be to buy the Mazda anyway? If not for this reputation thing we would definitely be buying the Mazda. Anyone have any advice? If I can't get past this dilemma it will be either the Toyota or Honda, but I'll feel disappointed in a way. |
Phil
Citizen
Username: Barleyrooty
Post Number: 646
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 1, 2003 - 2:08 pm: | |
Did you check out the Acura MDX? - we wanted a station wagon (one kid family) but didn't find one that met our needs. Specifically we needed space as my parents visit a lot and we drive them around too. The 3rd row of seats is very easy to use and big enough for big kids or small adults. If the price is too high you could almost certainly get one coming off lease for a great deal. Hondas last forever. Mazdas don't.
(Message edited by barleyrooty on June 1, 2003) |
Brinckie2
Citizen
Username: Brinckie2
Post Number: 17
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 3, 2003 - 1:05 pm: | |
Last winter we bought a used 2000 MPV ES. We love it. A little smaller and much less expensive than either the Honda or Toyota, but still fits our family of four and all of our stuff on long trips. For better or worse I often rely on Consumer Reports reviews. They gave the MPV high marks. I had also heard about the transmission problems (very expensive to fix). No problems so far... |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 126
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 3, 2003 - 1:10 pm: | |
It's a risk I might take. After all, it's only time and money. Since you're buying it new, you could buy an extended warranty, which could cover the transmission problem.
Tom Reingold
|
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3109
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 3, 2003 - 2:45 pm: | |
Larry, check out the reliability ratings in Consumer Reports. I know from your PC posts that you aren't a big fan of that magazine, but the reliability ratings are based on reader surveys.
I don't know about the MPV, but the Miata and Protege are rated very reliable by CR.
Over the years we have had two Chrysler Corporation minivans and a new model Ford Explorer. None of these vehicles are rated very high for reliability by CR, but we have not had any problems with them.
I think now a days the general level of reliability and quality has increased to the point where problems, even on vehicles rated not so highly, are a lot rarer than ten or twenty years ago. |
sac
Citizen
Username: Sac
Post Number: 820
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 3, 2003 - 7:01 pm: | |
Consumer Reports isn't very helpful or reliable for computer hardware and software related information. But for automobiles and many other purchases, it is a great source of information. We used their car buying service for our last auto purchase and it was very helpful in our research. |
scribbler
Citizen
Username: Scribbler
Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 12:57 pm: | |
LSeltzer, just FYI the Chevy Venture is also available with a disappearing 3rd row. I have one. It seats eight with all the seats up.
No, a Chevy isn't very sexy and lacks the cool factor of the foreign cars, but hey, we're talking MINIVAN here. I'll have to wait until my kids are bigger for a sexy car. |
akb
Citizen
Username: Akb
Post Number: 113
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 1:53 pm: | |
We have a Grand Caravan, and have been absolutely delighted with it. We will probably replace it next year (90,000 miles and running fine but we do lots of long distance trips; we bought it 4 years ago with 18,000), and will try for another GC - we need the space it has. We have had good luck with year-old program cars from Dodge. Now with the zero financing and other incentives, it may be better to buy new ... I am not sure. |
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