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Message |
    
snshirsch
Citizen
Username: Snshirsch
Post Number: 49
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 10:47 am: | 
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Now that the Beifus building has been demolished, our once semi-private (at least from SO Avenue) pool is no longer. Has anyone addressed the issue of planting some new trees or fencing around the site so the pool does not seem so wide open to SO Avenue? How is this going to be addressed once the new building is completed? Is it going to be possible to have a terrace view of the pool from the new condos? |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1576
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 12:33 pm: |
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How about a nice big cell tower? |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 4728
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 2:35 pm: |
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Diving tower! |
Jeff Alexander
Citizen
Username: Jalexander
Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 2:43 pm: |
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Does this mean that people from South Orange Avenue will be able to see me nude sunbathing at the pool?  |
patjoyce
Citizen
Username: Patjoyce
Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 5:48 pm: |
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The amended redevelopment plan which was amended to accomodate this project states, " The design of the site should be particularly sensitive to the adjacent Village recreation facilities and open space areas." It also provides for a 10 foot buffer "which shall be landscaped/fenced to minimize impact on adjacent village property." I had trouble with the amended plan, in part, because I am not sure how you can enforce these provisions. |
lamppost
Citizen
Username: Lamppost
Post Number: 27
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 7, 2003 - 9:54 pm: |
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The new building will cast a big shadow over the pool and will be disproportionate to the size of the other buildings on SO Ave., but this is what we the people wanted, what we voted for. Congrats! |
argon_smythe
Citizen
Username: Argon_smythe
Post Number: 69
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 9:42 am: |
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So it's a problem that there is no building there and it's a problem that there is going to be a building there. We should be thankful there are people willing to even consider running for public office in this town.
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David Lackey
Citizen
Username: Davidlackey
Post Number: 31
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 9:36 am: |
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Another small criticism about the Beifus building is that at five floors, all those drivers waiting in the long line to exit the NJ Transit lot will not be able to see the sky anymore  |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 452
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 10:06 am: |
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(David, the comments below are not directed at you, but just made in general since you raised the point).
That criticism should have been stated when the planning board had hearings. Unfortunately, not one person showed up at the planning board hearings to discuss any concerns about the Beifus site plans. I could not figure out why there were no comments despite all the concerns now being stated. Since there was much criticism about the Shop-Rite site and some of those concerns were similar, I find it very surprising.
Since construction has not started and there is still not a developer's agreement, maybe Mr. Beifus would be willing to shrink the building. Of course, one can bet he will want something in return if he does agree to that at this point.
Of course, if the weather we have had the past few months continues, I doubt anyone will want to look at the sky. |
snshirsch
Citizen
Username: Snshirsch
Post Number: 62
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 10:38 am: |
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Mark,
Who exactly is on the planning board and isn't this what they are supposed to be doing? I guess I figured that the people on the planning board would have the best interests of the Village as their principal objective. Apathy or just completely overwhelmed homeowners are not always available to voice their concerns before approval, this is what the planning board is for, not to rubber stamp development. However, this does not seem to be the case.
(OK, don't take that as harshly as it might sound, I'm just trying to make a point) |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 453
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 11:04 am: |
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I understand, and yes, they are supposed to be doing this and raising the same questions. I guess they felt the concerns were not enough to turn down the application.
The members are all residents of S. Orange and their names can be obtained by contacting the village clerk. I can't remember all the names, but Trustee Art Taylor represents the Trustees and the village president (Bill Calabrese) both sit on the planning board.
I voiced my objection to parts of the plans at a trustee meeting as did Patrick Joyce. The hope is that the planning board carefully analyzes the plans and any objections before making a decision. I think they are usually very fair and they usually do a good job. In this case, since the developer's agreement has not been done yet, I think they felt that any concerns about the plans could be handled through that agreement.
My point was that even though it might be the planning board's job to come up with all the concerns, etc. there are usually residents who show up to voice their opinions (The Quarry, The Shop-rite site, etc.) yet not one person voiced a concern at the Beifus site plan hearing so I was surprised to hear these concerns being voiced now. |
David Lackey
Citizen
Username: Davidlackey
Post Number: 33
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 11:26 am: |
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As if residents knew when that meeting was going to be held! Where can one find out the agenda of any given Planning Board or Trustee meeting? And Mark, don't suggest we call John Gross and ask him every week. |
snshirsch
Citizen
Username: Snshirsch
Post Number: 64
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 11:51 am: |
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This is a good point. These dates are noticably absent from the southorange.org website. Wait, I just found a page listing the suggested dates and times for all SO board meetings. The page, http://www.southorange.org/localgov.asp, suggests that the first Monday of every month at 7:30pm is when the planning board meets. Is this right?, are they held this regularly?
I must admit however, that the organizers of the anti-quarry development did a fantastic job of emailing all planning board meetings, changes of venues and times to any interested party that signed up for email updates. I'm not sure of the website, I am trying to find it now. It is The Coalition to Preserve South Orange. Their website is http://www.preserveso.com and you can be added to their email list. Although I have not heard from them in a while. |
Washashore
Citizen
Username: Washashore
Post Number: 31
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 1:34 pm: |
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Mark: Please stop berating residents for NOT participating or attending meetings.
1) Residents have been anxious to attend a Village-sponsored meeting on the impacts of PILOTS, but in the last month of begging and pleading, not one date has been put forward by you, Matthews or Gross.
2) On May 8, many residents were in attendance at the Planning Board meeting to voice their concerns about the scale, design, and other issues related to the proposed New Market Development.
As the Planning Board usually adjourns about 10:00 PM, and at least one motion had already been introduced to adjourn, many if not all of the residents had departed BEFORE they could speak because they thought the meeting was going to soon end, and that a vote on New Market would NOT occur that night. Yet, at 11:30 PM, the Planning Board DID vote!
Residents were in attendance at the earlier part of this Planning Board meeting, and many more would have been there as well, if they had any inkling whatsoever that the Board was planning to VOTE on New Market that night. By voting at a meeting and a time when most interested residents were unaware that a vote was imminent, the Planning Board circumvented residents' ability to participate and express their points of view.
If you want MORE citizen participation:
1) Hold the types of meetings that residents say they need in order to be more informed and more active - such as an Informational on the Impacts of PILOTS to South Orange
2) Don't allow the Planning Board or other government decision-making board, to vote on important development and other issues without first notifying residents that a vote is likely at a particular meeting, and resident input is being sought. And certainly NEVER allow a vote at 11:30 PM after all interested residents have left.
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snshirsch
Citizen
Username: Snshirsch
Post Number: 65
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 2:07 pm: |
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Regarding the voting by the planning board. I don't understand how they can PLAN to vote on an issue BEFORE hearing from residents. Unfortunately it seems as though at this point, minds would already be made up. Are half a dozen people voicing dissenting views really going to change the decision at 8:00 when a vote is scheduled for 10:00? What if its 50 people? A better idea is to set up specific meetings to hear from the citizens and then vote at a later meeting. There needs to be time for debate. This is why most larger organizations and governments will schedule multiple public sessions in order to listen to the people. I thought this was how the quarry issue was handled. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 456
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 2:16 pm: |
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Washashore: I was not berating residents for not attending, but for criticizing after the fact. Any person could have written a letter, sent an email, etc. if they could not attend. I know the meeting was advertised and I know many residents knew about the meeting because I was sent an email the week before from a citizen's group advising the members of the meeting.
The planning board sets their own agenda and the BOT would be wrong to tell them how to run their meetings. They are supposed to be an independent board and I for one do not want to pressure them on how or when to vote. If you have a complaint about the planning board or the way they have run their meetings you should make a complaint to the planning board attorney. I am not the trustee representative to the planning board and I cannot answer for why that meeting went later than expected. Have you mentioned your concerns to them? If you want, you can send me an email and I will forward the complaint for you if you want to keep annonymous.
The complaint above was about Beifus, not the shop-rite site. Many people did voice their concerns about the shop-rite site and the planning board meetings and I know I received several emails (both for and against)regarding the shop-rite, but none regarding Beifus. I was surprised that there was nothing said about Beifus at the planning board and more surprised that I did not receive any emails prior to or just after the planning board meeting.
At no time did I say I would give a date or organize the meeting about a PILOT. I said I would participate and help moderate if needed. Mr. DeVaris originally said he was going to organize it and then turned it over to Mr. Matthews. I suggested to Mr. Matthews that we do the meeting in July because we had so many meetings scheduled in June already and because of little league which takes up a lot of evenings for many of the people who would want to attend.
As for trustee meetings, they are usually over by 11P.M, but we prefer to finish up our meetings the same night as advertised. Sometimes late meetings with votes that take place at late hours cannot be avoided. We do let everyone who wants to speak have a chance and sometimes that can cause a meeting to run later than most of us would like. I would rather hear from everyone that wants a chance to voice an opinion than cut a meeting short to meet a 10:00 deadline.
David: The trustee meetings are shown on the village website and the agendas are posted on there, usually the Friday before the meeting.
The planning board meets the first monday of each month and if they hold a special meeting it will be shown on the village website too. They have not been submitting their agendas to be posted, but I will ask if this can be done in the future.
And of course, you can call village hall (not just John Gross) for any specific information.
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snshirsch
Citizen
Username: Snshirsch
Post Number: 66
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 2:37 pm: |
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I'm not sure I understand how the planning board can be independent when both Art Taylor and Bill Calabrese are members. That's 2 out of how many seats?
Mark, Thanks again for taking the time to answer these questions. Perhaps someday we should take the relevant Q&A's and come up with a Frequently Asked Questions page for the SO website. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 457
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 3:07 pm: |
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snhirsch: I won't argue the point because to some extent it is hard to consider them truly independent. However, they do operate independently with a seperate attorney. Bill and Art do not chair those meetings and there are at least five other voting members. That is just more the reason why the other trustees should keep a hands off approach and try to let the board act as independently as possible.
We did talk about putting together a FAQ page for the website, and I think we should try and get that done. Maybe we can start another thread with FAQ's on here.
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Jeff Alexander
Citizen
Username: Jalexander
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 8:43 am: |
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Off the topic, but when does the pool open? |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 462
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 10:33 am: |
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Jeff:
The pool should be open this weekend (weather permitting). It was open last weekend too. During the week it has been used by the schools (well, it would have been had it been sunny). |
JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 59
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 1:32 pm: |
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is the pool heated? |
vermontgolfer
Citizen
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 48
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 3:04 pm: |
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JJC,
Do you want your taxes to increase some more?
Just kidding, no I don't think the pool is heated.
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snshirsch
Citizen
Username: Snshirsch
Post Number: 67
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 3:30 pm: |
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The pool is heated, and environmentally friendly. It's solar.
Alas, there is no sun. |
dgm
Citizen
Username: Dgm
Post Number: 121
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 6:26 pm: |
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It was about 68 degrees last Sunday. |
soresident
Citizen
Username: Soresident
Post Number: 49
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 10:55 pm: |
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sunshine or not, and even without a heated pool - all pool parties were held as scheduled by the schools this week. We raise hearty kids here in South Orange! |
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