| Author | Message | ||
     hariseldon Citizen Username: Hariseldon Post Number: 131 Registered: 5-2001  |
Quit insulting citizens, because I'm sick of reading it. If you can't post nice (or truthful), don't post at all. How about you take your own advice? | ||
| deepthroat Citizen Username: Deepthroat Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2003 |
Ladies & gentlemen, let's have a round of applause for Mrs. Matthews..."stand by your man, give him something warm to cling to when nights are cold & lonely...stand by your man..." Take it easy, lady: he's just an errand boy sent by grocery clerks to collect his fees! | ||
| woodstock Citizen Username: Woodstock Post Number: 226 Registered: 9-2002  |
Possibly the most useless, insulting, and annoying posts I've seen here. No intelligent content, just insults and more insults. With your two posts, you've definitely got the award for the highest noise to signal signal ratio. Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him | ||
| deepthroat Citizen Username: Deepthroat Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2003 |
Just figured I'd shake the tree and see what fell out! It's a real class act they're pulling in South Town: "insulting", "annoying", and probably even criminal! Wake up! DT | ||
| Washashore Citizen Username: Washashore Post Number: 47 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mr. Matthews: I know it will be hard to believe because I am, once again, responding to your post to me, but it is true that I do NOT relish beating a dead horse. Nevertheless, on your last post to me, I have the following comments: 1) Paraphrase from your post: "The decision at the time to have Gross asume the position of full-time Treasurer as well as full-time Administrator was based on the fact that there were no qualified candidates available to the Village." That was 6 years ago. Was it a wise decision than, and does it continue to be a wise decision today, to have ONE person charged with the responsibility to do TWO full-time jobs? Does this lack of staff power have anything to do with the fact that this is the first year in memory when we got additional funds from the state - an amount of $50,000. Did we even apply all those other years? Or Green Acres grant money that we received only after non-employee residents investigated the availability of such funds, filled out the application, and, after many attempts, finally got John Gross' signature and, viola, a Green Acres grant was awarded to South Orange. But no thanks to the elected officials, or their paid staff, who didn't think that pursuit of such funding was a desirable use of staff time. Or, perhaps there is too much work for so few people (though John's salary is more than if he were "just" the Administrator)that important aspects of the various jobs go undone. 2. "I have discussed his performance with the elected officals, and have listened to their comments." No where do you mention discussing his performance with the resident users of Town Hall services. And when was the last time YOU had a Performance Appraisal? Asking one fox if the other fox is safely watching the chickens isn't really a very good performance appraisal from the chickens' point of view. | ||
| Edwin R. Matthews Citizen Username: Edwinrmatthews Post Number: 54 Registered: 3-2003 |
Washashore: I fear it is waste of time to respond to you because any response just leads to more misinformation and inaccuracies. I never as your "paraphrase" suggests talked about when John Gross became the Treasurer. I talked about when Barbara Sacks became the treasurer and the perception at that time of a lack of quality candidates (There can be a difference between qualified candidates and quality candidates.) Whether it was a wise decision at that time or at the present time for one person to serve as Administrator and Treasurer is one for the elected officials to address. This is not the first year in memory that we have received "additional funds from the state". In deed we have received additional funds from the state in every year John Gross has been here. He and the professional staff have worked hard to accomplish this and have had the support and help of Senator Codey as well as Assemblymen Hackett and McKeon. South Orange did for the first time receive what has been called discretionary aid or extraordinary aid in 2003. South Orange has applied for this aid every year for atleast the last ten years. This aid has generally been denied to South Orange because of its strong fiscal condition and policies. (In some prior years we made objectively stronger cases for the aid and did not receive it.) With respect to the Green Acres funds. While there was some push from some members of the public the fact remains that the application was submitted by the Village. John Gross worked hard to get the application in and went to Trenton atleast once to meet with DEP to move the application along. Had the elected officials not directed the professional staff to pursue the funds they would not have been received. Indeed there were additional funds that could have been pursued by private groups like the Coalition to Preserve South Orange which were not pursued. Virtually all of the residents who have discussed John Gross with me have done so in a very positive vein. It generally appears to me that the only people who are dissatisfied with John and his performance are posters on maplewood online most of who like yourself make their criticisms using screen names. | ||
| dgm Citizen Username: Dgm Post Number: 125 Registered: 5-2001 |
Across the nation, it is not unusual for local government officials to have two titles. This is because of the difficulty of recruiting and retaining public servants who do have to work long hours and face the limitations of public sector salaries (particularly in small towns). As long as the incumbent in the multiple seats is honest and can keep up with the workload, it is not a problem. Everytime that I have interacted with John Gross, it has been a satisfactory experience. | ||
| woodstock Citizen Username: Woodstock Post Number: 227 Registered: 9-2002 |
The only concern I might have of an official holding more than one position would be if both positions held voting rights, thereby either reducing the number of votes, or doubling the power of one person's vote. Concentrating too much power in one person is never a good idea. I don't believe that is the case here. Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him | ||
| Soda Citizen Username: Soda Post Number: 1036 Registered: 5-2001  |
Jaundice it is! --The Oracle of MOL BTW: May... I... see... your... passport... Please? | ||
| doublea Citizen Username: Doublea Post Number: 215 Registered: 3-2003 |
Mr. Matthews: What were the "additional funds that could have been pursued by private groups such as the Coalition to Preserve South Orange that were not pursued?" | ||
| Edwin R. Matthews Citizen Username: Edwinrmatthews Post Number: 56 Registered: 3-2003 |
Doublea: I don't now recall the specifics but when John Gross and I met with representatives of the DEP they told us there were funds available for private groups to apply for. | ||
| doublea Citizen Username: Doublea Post Number: 216 Registered: 3-2003 |
I asked because it seemed to me that you were trying to put a negative spin on what the Coalition to Preserve South Orange accomplished. If my impression is wrong I'm sure you will tell me. | ||
| Edwin R. Matthews Citizen Username: Edwinrmatthews Post Number: 57 Registered: 3-2003 |
I was not trying to put any spin positive or negative on what the Coalition to Preserve South Orange accomplished. I merely commented that there were funds available to private groups like the Coalition which funds were not pursued. | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 311 Registered: 5-2001 |
Edwin, I resent your implication. For the TRUTH...you first may recall that it was the CPSO who first proposed to the Village that BOTH an Environmental Commission and an Open Space Trust Fund be created. You will also recall that both ideas were met with great resistance initially from many Trustees. You will also recall that as a result of the persistance of CPSO, both the Environmental Commission & the Open Space Trust Fund were finally created....which were pre-conditions to receiving the $1.25 million in Open Space money the Village is sitting on today. Finally...solely as a result of the determination of the CPSO (& the over 400 families it represented), the proposed plan for 198 rental units was reduced to 69 duplexes. Without such public outcry the 198 units would have been a "done deal" in the words of Calabrese & Hartwyck. Lastly...to your point on "funds available to private groups like the Coalition"....let's state some facts. First, to be eligible, an organization must be a 501c(3), which the Coalition is not. As a result, the Foundation to Preserve South Orange was created, which was a 501c(3). HOWEVER...public groups are only eligible for 50% matching grants, usually up to a cap of $500,000. Unfortunately, even if CPSO/FPSO could obtain $500,000, where would the $500,000 match come from? Based on the attitude of you & others in the Village, we wouldn't expect much help there. For once, I would love to see a single representative of Village Hall (other than Patrick Joyce) publicly commend CPSO for all that was accomplished and for Village Hall to stop trying to take credit for themselves. P.S. For an education on the TRUTH about Open Space Funds, please see http://www.state.nj.us/dep/greenacres/faq.htm | ||
| Washashore Citizen Username: Washashore Post Number: 48 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thank you, mayhewdrive, for that clarification re: DEP and the availability of funds for "private" groups. It raises yet more questions about how, when meeting with DEP, neither John Gross nor Ed Matthews managed to query DEP about who was eligible for such "private" funds, and how such funds could be obtained. One would have assumed that, keeping tax payer interests in mind, whatever funds could be obtained from DEP, or other sources, would be that much less needed from taxes. And one would assume that Village-paid staff understood that residents and resident orgaizations are to be partnered with, not scorned, isolated, and comdemned. The fact that Mr. Matthews did not pursue these issues with DEP, did not relate this info to Mr. Gross (if he were not in attendance, or that Mr. Gross himself did not follow-up) for his follow-up to figure out how these funds could be obtained, perhaps confirms that 1) Mr. Gross is too busy with multiple job responsibilities to do any of them effectively; 2) paid village staff do NOT pursue all avenues open to them to help ease the taxpayers' burden; 3) rather than being encouraged and energized by resident groups that have proved to represent considerable household interests as well as shown themselves to be effective in obtaining funds and getting bad decisions reversed, we have instead village employees who A)do not act effectively or expediently when information that could be of benefit to the tacxpayers of South Orange is presented to them, B) do not see resident groups as worthy of joint effort, even when the best interests of South Orange can only be served by such mutual pursuit. | ||
| Edwin R. Matthews Citizen Username: Edwinrmatthews Post Number: 58 Registered: 3-2003 |
Mayhewdrive to quote Col Jessup from "A Few Good Men" "You want the truth...You can't handle the truth." Lets just say there is a significant difference of opinion as to what, if anything, was accomplished by CPSO. While their presence was, in my view, helpful to the Village in negoiating the decrease in density it is patently absurd for anyone to suggest that CPSO was solely responsible for the reduction. There were times when CPSO's actions created problems in the negoiations. Certainly their refusal to cooperate with the Village made it more difficult for the Village. Washashore: When I met with the DEP I did so as a representative of the Village. At that time representatives of CPSO were aware of private organizations ability to receive funds from the DEP. It was also discussed during meetings with representatives of CPSO and with some of those representatives individually. Mayhewdrive, Washashore, Deepthroat, Doublea and Bets: you win!!! I have finally become convinced of what others have been telling me for the last couple of months that is, it is a waste of time to try to conduct a meaningful dialogue in this forum. I therefore intend to withdraw from further participation. Hopefully I will have enough self control to resist the temptation when baited by you and other posters. | ||
| doublea Citizen Username: Doublea Post Number: 218 Registered: 3-2003 |
To anyone else,in particular the active members of the CPSO who view this board, it is my recollection that it was the CPSO that initiated the effort to have a portion of the quarry designated as wetlands. The BOT at the same then used to joke about wetlands. As I recall, the first mention of the CPSO in this thread was made by the viilage counsel,in what seemed to me to be a negative way. As I personal manner, I don't think I have ever in any of my posts gotten personal. I think I have stayed to the facts. . | ||
| Eric DeVaris Citizen Username: Eric_devaris Post Number: 26 Registered: 2-2003 |
Mr. Matthews, The greatest contribution of your writings in this board has been the illustration of the immense chasm that exists between the governing body and the citizenry of this town, and also of the flagrant differences that exist between the government's priorities, aspirations, mores, styles, and beliefs, and that of a large number of the citizens of our town. For that, and for that alone, you will be missed. If your last postings on this thread are your “swan song”, then your song is pretty cacophonic. You write: “There were times when CPSO's actions created problems in the negotiations. Certainly their refusal to cooperate with the Village made it more difficult for the Village.” CPSO refused to cooperate with the governing body, when Mr. Hartwyck, a sitting Trustee at the time, announced publicly that the development of the 198 units in the Quarry was “a done deal”. As a member of CPSO, I am proud that we “created problems in the negotiations”, and proud that we “made it more difficult for the Village” to further negotiate the 198-units development. And I will be, as Mr. Matthews puts it, “patently absurd" to suggest, no, to insist “that CPSO was solely responsible for the reduction”. Had CPSO not react as it did four years ago, the governing body would have gone ahead with the “done deal” and today we would have 198 units built in the Quarry. Had CPSO not lead a four-year intense and costly fight at the Planning Board, the developer would have had his plan approved and today we would have 198 units built in the Quarry. I second every word that Mayhewdrive and Washashore write in their posts of 7/17/03 9:10am. and 9:59 am., and I thank them both. I wish to add that with all the financial benefits that the Village has reaped from the activities of CPSO, and of its sister organization the Foundation to Preserve South Orange, the governing body has not contributed one single penny to the Foundation as it has contributed thousands of dollars to other civic 501(c)(3) organizations, such as Main Street and the Community Coalition on Race. Instead, the governing body has put every possible obstacle in front of CPSO’s efforts, the efforts of an organization representing over 400 families/600 citizens. CPSO and FPSO have spent a lot of money over the last five years in legal and engineering consultants expenses for the betterment of South Orange: a) to reduce future infrastructure expenses by reducing the development in the quarry from 198 units to 69 duplexes; b) to prevent catastrophic flood damages downhill Tillou Road, and downstream East Branch of Rahway River, and the resulting costly lawsuits against the Village, by uncovering and correcting the errors in the hydrological calculations of the developers’ engineers; c) to educate and mobilize the citizens of South Orange to put on the ballot and tax themselves with the institution of a South Orange Open Space Trust Fund, which, together with the creation of the S.O. Environmental Commission, brought in the Village coffers $1.25 million in Green Acres money, and makes funds available for improvements in our recreational facilities, and for the preservation of our parks and historic districts. All the money that CPSO and FPSO have spent was raised through the extraordinary efforts of the volunteers and the generosity of our citizens. Has the governing body contributed any funds? No. Has the governing body excluded CPSO from any discussion/negotiation on the development? Yes. Has the governing body recognized in any shape or form the efforts of CPSO for its positive contributions to the welfare of the Village? No (read Mr. Matthews posts above). Has the governing body tried to get the credit for the successes of CPSO? Yes (read Mr. Matthews posts above). All this makes me wonder: WHY? Eric | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 312 Registered: 5-2001 |
Edwin, To quote the crybabies from the school playground when they didn't get their way "I'm taking my ball & going home". Farewell & Good Riddance! You state it is "a waste of time to try to conduct a meaningful dialogue in this forum". While I don't always agree with Mark Rosner, I think people unanimously agree he creates a meaningful diaglogue here. What is he doing differently? Perhaps it is his willingness to at least TRY to avoid an arrogant condescending and pandering tone towards all citizens that disagree with him. In addition, I second Eric's comments above. Like I said earlier, I would love to see a single representative of Village Hall (other than Patrick Joyce) publicly commend CPSO for all that was accomplished and for Village Hall to stop trying to take credit for themselves. So long, Ed. Your charm & wit will be sorely missed. | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 313 Registered: 5-2001 |
Doublea...actually the first person to inquire about Wetlands at the quarry was Rob Strang who is a resident on Tillou Rd (see meeting minutes http://www.southorange.org/minutes/1999/01251999r.htm). Although, you are right...the notion was intially laughed at. Ironic how that notion alone saved almost 1/3 of the quarry forever. |
