| Author | Message | ||
     bets Citizen Username: Bets Post Number: 349 Registered: 6-2001  |
FACT: John Gross is now the Village Administrator, the Village Treasurer, the Village Chief Financial Officer, the head of the South Orange Performing Arts Center, and now has been named as some sort of homeland security official, for yet another "stipend." FACT: John Gross and Trustee Mary Theroux have an intimate relationship. THEORY: Perhaps ethics dictate that John Gross should not be in complete control of every aspect of the village's finances without some checks and balances in place, especially in light of FACT 2 above. FACT: A committee was convened when Barbara Sacks left her post as Village Administrator. The committee was charged with finding an adequate replacement. The committee recommended hiring Michelle Mead, which recommendation was ignored when John Gross, a fellow pharmacist and friend of Bill Calabrese was hired. Michelle Mead accepted a post in Maplewood, where she is still successfully and gainfully employed. FACT: Christopher Hartwyck was Township Attorney until he was elected a trustee. FACT: Christopher Hartwyck was given a deal on the considerable tax debt on his home. FACT: Christopher Hartwyck's sister and brother-in-law now hold full-time, paid positions in the village despite their lack of qualifications for same. FACT: The Parking Authority interviewed and hired a fully qualified Executive Director, who was summarily fired so that Christopher Hartwyck's brother-in-law could fill that post. FACT: In one single trustee meeting, without warning and surprising everyone who is usually on top of the issues, Christopher Hartwyck resigns his trustee seat to accept a part-time position as "counsel for redevelopment" at a salary of $60,000, which does not include other billable hours (and if I could examine his tax returns and Mr. Matthew's IRS records, I would prove that he has billed the village for hundreds of additional hours beyond his "part-time" status). FACT: Christopher Hartwyck resigned that position some months ago when he got a better offer from a Bergen County law firm. FACT: The position remains unfilled and was never advertised (nor was it when his surprise resignation occurred). FACT: The village has already spent more than $1 million on an arts center with no results. FACT: The Trustees will vote tonight on extending John Gross's contract for five years, which is against state law (and I think what deepthroat was referring to above). FACT: The village operates like your worst nightmare; the posted hours of 9:30-4:30 are an insult to the working public; they've completely fudged South Orange Avenue; the pool is a nightmare; they're hiring summer camp counselors at tonight's meeting (halfway through the summer); they've ripped up and replaced the sidewalks downtown numerous times with no explanation (driving out their oldest business: Town Hall Deli); they denied their firefighters a contract for almost 4 years, meaning they left that department dangerously short of personnel during a horrible tenure that included Seton Hall, the apartments on South Orange Avenue, and another fatal fire on Vose Ave.; they've built almost 300 additional residential units in town without any actual taxable revenue or addressing the safety service requirements; and I could go on, and on, and on, and on! I deeply apologize if you find my posting style "shrill." I just find all of this reprehensible and corrupt to the core. Perhaps I have a more personal attachment to South Orange, having been born in Orange Memorial and raised just down the street from you. That is, the house you bought because a local was forced to sell due to rising taxes and the greed of our leadership. Manhattan Direct was designed to transport our residents into New York with less hassle. It's turned out to be the apocalypse. | ||
| bets Citizen Username: Bets Post Number: 350 Registered: 6-2001 |
I overlooked one more FACT, and think it needs the emphasis of its own post. FACT: During the recent, non-partisan (read: no one votes) campaign, the incumbents were faced with a candidate who threatened to bring decency to this village. During the campaign, there were some comments that the village was moving too slowly on the Beifus and SOPAC projects. Magically, Beifus was demolished and a fence was erected around the SOPAC site. FACT: Nothing has occurred on either site since. | ||
| Dave Ross Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 4883 Registered: 5-2001  |
Pete, You're forgetting the 2,000+ daily (summer time) readers. Like it or not, opinions are shaped via online forums and newspapers, which also have few authors and many of them pen errors, as well. Democracy has never been the civilized, calm process you hope for. Since the days of General Washington, political debate has contained hype, innuendo, doublespeak, lies, truths, diatribes, etc. Indeed, much of it, including Thomas Paine's Common Sense, was anonymous. | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 175 Registered: 8-2002 |
bets -- just walking by the sopac site everyday i do see ongoing work -- not much, but... they have dug up a few things, laid new pipes, etc so please, watch your "facts" dave -- hmm, 2000+ users? now that's GOOD! /pl | ||
| bets Citizen Username: Bets Post Number: 351 Registered: 6-2001 |
Pete, I'm glad you've seen progress, but I fear it's only sewer line work. But draw your own conclusions. Before we know it, an Arts Center may appear. I can confirm as FACT: the town has been parking their town trucks there. And bakery trucks, garbage trucks, contractor trucks (I guess they've got a deal), etc. and so on. No actual work has commenced at the site, despite Pete's post. It cannot commence until our village votes another $4 million in bonds. If you really doubt me, just go down and take a look. The Beifus site is dead, the SOPAC site is a former parking lot. It's not that difficult. | ||
| Washashore Citizen Username: Washashore Post Number: 51 Registered: 4-2003 |
FACT: Since 1993, Village debt has nearly tripled - from $12.9 million to $34.7 million - over $2,000 for every resident in town. FACT: Over the same period, bonded debt has increased from 1.2% to almost 3.5% of assessed value, with total indebtedness now $9 million more than the debt level of the school district. FACT: Since 1993, assessed value in town has declined by more than $57 million dollars (almost 6%). FACT: The PILOT Informational has been scheduled for July 31 for several weeks. Although we have recently learned that it will NOT be held on July 31, we have yet to be offered a date when it will be. FACT: There is a Village Board of Trustee Election in less than two years. FACT: If we work together to UNDERSTAND the impacts on life in South Orange of the things that bets, and others, have unveiled, we can succeed in developing, and electing, new leadership in 2004. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 515 Registered: 4-2002 |
Warning: Just because Bets or Washashore say it is a fact does not make it one. Ficton: Most of what Bets or Washashore write. It seem almost useless to even try to respond to anything the two of them post (or Deep Throat). They throw is a couple of "facts" and then post a bunch of BS (my apologies for using this term but it is appropiate). The village had been pushing Mr. Beifus for years to tear down his building. He waited till he got his approval from the planning board and his permits. I doubt a single person voted one way or the other just because demolition started a few weeks before the election. He continues to move slow and the BOT has continually criticized Mr. Beifus. So what is your point BETS? Would you like us to condemn the property? I doubt that considering your past posts. Give me a real solution and I will pass your suggestion on to the BOT for discussion. John Gross was not a friend of Bill Calabrese prior to him being hired by the village. John Gross had other job experience that made him qualified to be admiminstrator. It seems your complaint against him has nothing to do with performance but with his prior experience and his relationship with Trustee Theroux. Well, he has been with the village over four years now, so I don't know why you are bringing up the "search" that was done five years ago (before I was on the board). And if you think his relationship is a problem, then don't vote for Trustee Theroux if she runs again in 2005 (Washashore incorrectly posted that the next election was in 2004). If anyone thinks there is a conflict on any issue they can ask the village attorney to give an opinion. If they think they need an outside source, then they can make a request to the state ethics board. The Town Hall Deli is not closing or selling because of repairs to the sidewalk or the park next door. They have decided to move on for whatever reasons they have (retirement?). They were given explanations as to why the sidewalks were repaired. However, my own opinion (and I told this to Jack many times going back more than ten years) that he should consider staying open to 8:00 pm, offer waitress service at the tables, turn back on the steam table and have hot corned beef or pastrami available and a host of other issues. We talked many times about it. My opinion is that they were tired of the business and wanted out. Not once did Jack or Ron say to me the village is killing them or driving them out. I am sure others have their own opinions why Town Hall is not what it used to be. I have always loved getting sandwiches there and they will be sorely missed in our household if they are to be no longer. I did not know that Chris Hartwyk's brother'n'law worked for the village. His brother works for the parking authority. The previous executive director resigned after a very short time on his own. If you want, I will get you his phone number and you can call him to confirm that. He had an issue that had to do with his pension from the state and was not forced out by anyone. Not to mention the parking authority commissioners hire on their own and do not consult with the BOT or the village administrator when it comes time to hire for any position they have. Chris Hartwyk was given up to 12 months to catch up on his property taxes. He made the request in public (when he was a trustee) and the same arrangement had been done for other residents too. Usually it is done without the name being released (just the block and lot #'s). If anyone else needs the same deal due to financial problems, then they can meet with the tax collector or come before the BOT. I promise that we will give the exact same consideration to anyone else that we gave to Mr. Hartwyk. Mr. Hartwyk had been discussing resigning for several months before he actually did (as trustee). Village president Calabrese asked the BOT to consider using Mr. Hartwyk as the redevelopment attorney because we were paying in excess of what we would have to pay him. Whether you like Mr. Hartwyk or not, he was and is certainly qualified for that position. We stated when he was hired that we only foresaw the need for that position for two - three years. He got another job and not the one you posted as a "fact". If you want to know where and whom he currently works for, feel free to call him and ask him. I will not give out information about residents without asking them first. The over $1,000,000 spent on SOPAC which you say we have nothing should be modified to say we have purchased the piece of property (from NJ Transit), architectual plans, contract review, legal fees and consultants fees. SOPAC is waiting for some easements from NJ Transit still to finish up the site prep and so that PSE & G can do what they need to do. Did anyone vote for either ticket because of a fence? There is almost always someone at village hall by 8:30 am and there is always someone there at 5:00P.M. Are you suggesting that we increase the payroll and hire more people so that we can be open more hours? With mail, e-mail, faxes, etc, almost everything can be done without even having to go to village hall. However I would bet if you needed to make arrangements to come one evening or earlier one morning that we could work something out for you (hey this offer is just for Bets). The firefighters were not denied a contract. They accepted mediation and that took time. We were never shorthanded and it is outrageous for you to imply the village would jeopardize the safety of the residents. I know that the Fire chief would also take exception to your comments. The Fire Chief and the Police Director both stated that their respective departments were adequately staffed to handle the increase in the number of residents. Go ahead and ask them if you don't believe me. They both made their statements in public and without any pressure. The village hires the camp counselors prior to the summer as well as other seasonal workers. The village administrator has the authority to do that. We formalize it with a resolution when we have all the names, etc. at the first meeting in July. It is ridiculous to think we would be hiring the seasonal employees (other than replacements for ones that don't work out) at this point in the summer. Oh, but you already knew this. We added residential units and do get additional revenue (Read all your comments about the PILOT for a refresher course). The apartments on Church street are paying taxes and they do not have a PILOT (depsite a previous post by you stating that they did have one). I don't know who you are referring to when you talk about the one candidate who was trying to bring decency to the campaign, but I certainly resent your implication although I should just ignore your comment and remeber to just consider the source. You say you could go on and on. It is not your "shrill" style that bothers me, it is your constant posting where you claim that you are giving facts when instead you give one or two facts (Hey, John and Mary are sleeping together, congratulations for passing on that fact for them) and then spit out a bunch of lies and venom. Dave: The problem with this forum is that it seems to give credence to certain people who post under multiple names or in unison with each other. The misinformation manages to make it's way into the public and it is dangerous when a person accuses the village of foregoing public safety or accuses village leaders of being greedy (or corrupt). While Bets gave her name in one of her posts, for the most part it is done behind an anonymous name. While several hundred might read these posts, many do not post because they don't have the stomach to deal with posters like Deep Throat, Washashore (who still has not contacted John Gross to get "facts on the debt") or Bets. | ||
| hariseldon Citizen Username: Hariseldon Post Number: 132 Registered: 5-2001  |
Mark, as much as I love to see the village trustees and administration online and responsive, no one should have to put up with all the crap thrown at you. I certainly wouldn't bother responding to such inuendo and lies. You have nothing to gain from answering these veiled, written attacks from posters ashamed to list their real names. Thanks for the effort, but I don't think it's worth it. | ||
| doublea Citizen Username: Doublea Post Number: 234 Registered: 3-2003 |
I'm takin' the vow - until next time (that's #10). Disclosure: I have no financial, personal or familial relationship with Bets, Washashore or Deep Throat. I cannot buy or sell a stock for five days after I've mentioned it,I can't buy or sell options and I can't short a stock. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 516 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hariseldon: Thanks, I will try to just stick to answering questions regarding village manners and to ignore the few posters who try to make life in this forum so miserable. | ||
| deepthroat Citizen Username: Deepthroat Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2003 |
Mark baby, Here are some facts that you can't dispute. I'm friends with some South Orange firemen. During the last 4 years the SOFD has operated 6-man crews. A 6-man crew is the state minimum. The SOFD has hired 4 men this year and plan to hire more before year's end. They plan to hire even more next year. The department wants four 10-man crews. Right now, if there are no call-outs, we are running two 8-man crews and two 9-man crews. The trustees have been putting off repairs in the fire house for over 10 years. There was asbestos in the fire house. All firemen who worked in the fire house have been screened by a doctor. Some have spots on their lungs. They can't take suit against the town until they become sick and it's likely some will. Billy has been village president for the entire time the fire house was left in disrepair. Direct quote from a fireman in this town: "Other towns laugh at us. They don't call us for backup as much because they know what they'll get." Mark, by all accounts you weren't exactly lying but you certainly were not entirely forthcoming either. Your acceptance of damage control official is not showing you in the positive light I saw you in just a short time ago. If I were a fireman and got sick, the town would not be the only place I would look for some sort of compensation. Long story short: these facts quoted here are from the firemen themselves. Also, Billy's photo op in the News Wrecker was not approved by either fire union. Summation: Mr. Rosner thinks the bare state minimum for a fire crew is acceptable.
Sir, for my safety, the safety of the firemen, and last but not least what we pay in taxes, I do not. I dare you to deny any of this post. From now on, I'll call you "Hoser the Shameless Enforcer." Maybe we could make a cartoon? I'll keep digging, just for you! | ||
| Dave Ross Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 4891 Registered: 5-2001 |
So there are two issues: 1) the asbestos and 2) the staffing situation. Re: asbestos: when and how was it discovered? Re: staffing: I rarely hear of a labor issue where neither side has a gripe. Balancing services and taxes can't be easy. re: name-calling: BORING | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 176 Registered: 8-2002 |
To whom it may concern -- Today I personally observed signifcant work at the SOPAC site -- heavy equipment digging, removing concrete. Coincidence? Or a conspiracy to disturb the posters of MOL. Or much worse... (gee -- anyone can make up anything, huh -- now if I only had a camera along i could post the picture here, although I'm sure that someone would say i photoshopped the whole thing). Someone, please, put this thread out of its misery and start anew... /p | ||
| deepthroat Citizen Username: Deepthroat Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2003 |
Dave, You know I have the utmost respect for you. Certainly, Mr. Rosner can tell us when the asbestos was found. Given the time of construction of the fire house, anything's possible. To let the roof leak for as long as it did was at the very least unconscionable. I'm going on what I was told by more than one fireman. But 6 is the state minimum and the SOFD has run 6. As far as insults, I just figured a little attention couldn't hurt. No matter what, I won't stop digging. I'll keep digging, just for you! | ||
| Washashore Citizen Username: Washashore Post Number: 52 Registered: 4-2003 |
Peteglider: Messrs Rosner and Matthews have stated here that construction cannot begin on SOPAC until NJ TRANSIT grants S.O. easements, which, they say, NJ TRANSIT has not yet done. bets says that the work you may be viewing is related to sewers. May I suggest you contact NJ TRANSIT yourself and inquire about 1) whether S.O. owns all the property needed, or 2) does NJ TRANSIT still have to issue easements to the town. 3) If easements are needed, has NJ TRANSIT received all documentation it needs from South Orange in order to grant them? Then, you would have some facts you could share on MOL. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 518 Registered: 4-2002 |
Deep throat says: "During the last 4 years the SOFD has operated 6-man crews. A 6-man crew is the state minimum." Not true. In 1999 the SOFD Table of Organization contained 32 firefighters, 8 per tour. At that time, there was a 5-man minium to respond to fires. The NFP, an industry standard bearer (not the industustry standard by law) recommended a minimum of 6 firefighters to respond in order to ensure the safety of the firefighters. The Village administrator implemented this standard immediately by increasing the minimum staffing to 6/tour and financed it through overtime until a plan for expansion of the Department could be finalizied. Additionally, the Chief initiated a plan to revamp fire inspection programs (before the Seton Hall Fire) to use Fire Officers. Up until this year we ran with 8 man crews which never were less than six and are 7 or 8 depending on vacations and illness. "The SOFD has hired 4 men this year and plan to hire more before year's end. They plan to hire even more next year." The SOFD hired no one this year. The Board of Trustees did. "The department wants four 10-man crews." Actually, not true. They want 12 or more. Our Plan calls for 10 per tour to provide firefighter services, fire inspection services and EMT services. "Right now, if there are no call-outs, we are running two 8-man crews and two 9-man crews. " This is a matter of perspective, our table of organization currently calls for 9 firefighters per tour, 2 of which currently have vacancies which are expected to be filled by early fall (before you dispute me, yes they will have to go to the academy before they are assigned to a tour - the kind of minutia I know you would use to attack my veracity). "The trustees have been putting off repairs in the fire house for over 10 years." As part of the redevelopment, the decision on whether to sell the firehouse or renovate it was delayed until the winter of 2000. "There was asbestos in the fire house." True, not withstanding inspections by the firefighter unions discounting the existence of asbestos over previous years, not withstanding the PEOSHA representativeâ's evaluation that it was unlikely that asbestos existed, it was this administration that above and beyond what was recommended to ensure the safety of the firefighters and discovered the threat that existed to them. Upon recognizing the risk, the Village immediately evacuated the firehouse, although federal standards for public buildings did not require it, and removed all asbestos from the building, which by standards, was not required. All firemen who worked in the fire house have been screened by a doctor, as well as other retired firefighters (as they should have been). "Some have spots on their lungs." I will not discuss they private lives of firefighters, but I can assure you that every medical evaluation and precaution was taken. Having said that, the issue of asbestos is not as simple as spots on their lungs. Without disclosing privileges or allowing you to bait me into saying something that may disturb our negotiations this year, let me say that understandably, these are particularly sensitive and emotional issues for these firefighters and it is not fair to them to use them as a debating point over differing ideology. The Village takes the health and welfare of all of our employees very seriously. Any employee who is exposed to unknown dangerous risks is tragic, and if he/she is medically impacted, it is devastating. Having said that, the difference between exposure and impact at time is subjective and only time will tell the truth. "They can't take suit against the town until they become sick and it's likely some will." Not True. They can file upon knowledge of exposure and the interpretation of impact and they are covered by workman"s compensation insurance (not liability) for whatever their legitimate needs become over their lifetime. Billy has been village president for the entire time the fire house was left in disrepair. ????? Direct quote from a fireman in this town: "Other towns laugh at us. They don't call us for backup as much because they know what they'll get." I can not account for the alleged remarks of individual firefighter, made in an unknown context. The fact is we do respond to other communities for mutual response when requested and they respond to us as well. Long story short: "these facts quoted here are from the firemen themselves. Also, Billy's photo op in the News Wrecker was not approved by either fire union. " Perhaps you should ask those who disclaim it why they let their leadership do such a thing, if that is true or maybe call the News-Record to find out who placed the ad. _____ I stand by what I posted earlier - We were never shorthanded and it is outrageous for you to imply the village would jeopardize the safety of the residents. And congratulations on continuing to try to post lies and misinformation. | ||
| lamppost Citizen Username: Lamppost Post Number: 28 Registered: 8-2001 |
[incorrect information deleted... admin] | ||
| bets Citizen Username: Bets Post Number: 353 Registered: 6-2001 |
Tsk, tsk, Lamppost. You're not supposed to question the lily white Board of Trustees! You'll be called a shrill, lying, hate-monger! Why question why the man is being paid for six jobs? I think we all know the answer, but Mr. Matthews says that, ethically, it's okay that Mr. Gross has an intimate relationship with a trustee. So I guess that means it's okay! I was so relieved to hear it! | ||
| hariseldon Citizen Username: Hariseldon Post Number: 133 Registered: 5-2001 |
Lily White.. Art Taylor would be suprized to learn that! | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 522 Registered: 4-2002 |
Lamppost: Are you saying that is what Mr. Gross is getting paid? or what he should be paid for doing those positions? or did you just make up some numbers? |
