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Message |
    
Yossarian
Citizen
Username: Yossarian
Post Number: 4
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 7:17 pm: | 
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We're new in town, and are very happy to be here. That said, we has a scary and unacceptable incident at the pool today. My wife took our 2 year old son and 5 year old daughter to the pool this afternoon. At the entrance, the kids checking for badges were swearing up a blue streak (sh*t, F*ck) in front of our kids. Nice.
Anyway, later in the kiddie pool, our son started crying and pointing to his foot. He stepped on a screw and cut his foot pretty badly. No stiches needed, but still a big fright. My wife went to the "person in charge" who said "what can I say, it's never happened before and won't happen again. The screw must have fallen off the vaccuum. Sorry."
My wife also mentioned that she saw several kids wearing water shoes. Question: is this an isolated incident, or a recurring problem?
The pool should be a valuable community resource, and can be. But obviously there are problems there (I've seen other threads on the subject that seem to indicate such).
Any thoughts? Comments? What can WE do to improve the situation, which reflects quite poorly on the town and its aspirations. |
vermontgolfer
Citizen
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 64
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 8:05 pm: |
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Yossarian,
Glad that your son was not to badly hurt. While we use the pool infrequently I think there certainly could be improvements. Something I think that would work, assuming the extra funds are dedicated to the pool and it's up keep, is to raise the fee for the pool. I know all of us here in SO do not need any additional expenses with taxes the way they are, but a modest increase could go a long way in improving the conditions at the pool. |
Yossarian
Citizen
Username: Yossarian
Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 9:15 pm: |
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vg --
Thanks for your concern about our son.
Raising the price is exactly what my wife and I were saying over dinner. Why not charge $50 per tag instead of $15, and dedicate those extra funds to pool maintenance and upkeep. It works in other communities. In Ridgewood, for example, the fee is something like $70 per tag. But that facility is wonderful. The SO pool is not even in the same league. Yet, as a community, SO is closer to NYC and therefore a much better commute, and has an equal, if not better, housing stock.
If SO is going to be considered in the same breath as Ridgewood and other similar communities, these are steps that must be taken. |
Washashore
Citizen
Username: Washashore
Post Number: 57
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 9:49 pm: |
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Perhaps if we all get together next time, and VOTE THE INCUMBENTS OUT (40% of the vote, although a great showing, didn't quite make it), we might start seeing improvement, and genuine skill, intelligence, and integrity being devoted to the doings in South Orange, pool conditions included.
It's not a minute too early to start thinking of good candidates to run for BOT in 2005, the issues that need to be addressed, and ideas on how to make change happen. |
paddy
Citizen
Username: Paddy
Post Number: 123
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 9:53 pm: |
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Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the pool actually costs nothing. The $15 is an admin fee to the recreation department. And I think the town cannot, by law because the land was a grant or something like that, charge for its use. You would need to increase the admin fee and that wouldn't be fair to those who pay the fee for other reasons and don't use the pool |
Yossarian
Citizen
Username: Yossarian
Post Number: 6
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 10:19 pm: |
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Well, if that is the case, then the solution's not that simple. Interesting, though, that in most other towns, the scenario is likely the reverse. Rec. department items like maintenance and operation of tennis courts, ball fields, ice skating ponds and the like are typically not fee funded items, while pools are often directly financed, to some degree, by fees.
But whatever the case, my son should not be stepping on screws in the pool. |
woodstock
Citizen
Username: Woodstock
Post Number: 307
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 11:12 pm: |
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Yossarian,
To answer your original question, I do think it is a reasonably isolated incident. My 2 year old daughter uses the pool every weekend and sometimes during the week. We've never seen anything dangerous in the pool, nor have we seen anyone get hurt from something like what you encountered.
Could the pool use improvements? Absolutely. It's a little disconcerting when you're walking in the pool and you feel the floor of it is crumbled under your foot. I don't think your experience is typical, though.
But that does not to minimize it. I'm glad that your son was not seriously injured. I hope his next trip to the pool is more enjoyable.
Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him
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susan1014
Citizen
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 38
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 9:49 am: |
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Personally, I love the SO pool, and was amazed when I first discovered what a bargain we were getting. But I will grant that I would love to see a few upgrades.
I believe that Paddy is right, and that the pool is essentially free, with the charge for the town-wide recreation access pass. So cranking up the cost of the pass isn't really fair to non-pool users.
I wonder if it would be possible to start a charitable foundation targeted to specific improvements at the pool. The goal is not to get routine maintenance off the town's budget, but to go beyond what the town could afford.
How many of the users would be willing to write a donation check for perhaps $25-35 per tagholder, rather than suggesting that we raise the mandatory fee that much?
I don't know much about the specifics of doing this, so feel free to enlighten me if its a bad idea! |
susan1014
Citizen
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 39
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 9:50 am: |
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Personally, I love the SO pool, and was amazed when I first discovered what a bargain we were getting. But I will grant that I would love to see a few upgrades.
I believe that Paddy is right, and that the pool is essentially free, with the charge for the town-wide recreation access pass. So cranking up the cost of the pass isn't really fair to non-pool users.
I wonder if it would be possible to start a charitable foundation targeted to specific improvements at the pool. The goal is not to get routine maintenance off the town's budget, but to go beyond what the town could afford.
How many of the users would be willing to write a donation check for perhaps $25-35 per tagholder, rather than suggesting that we raise the mandatory fee that much?
I don't know much about the specifics of doing this, so feel free to enlighten me if it's a bad idea! |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 208
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 10:45 am: |
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Sorry to hear about your son. My experiences at the pool over the past 3 summers have been positive.
My comment is less about maintenance (which to seems seems, ok, although this incident shows there is a need for improvement), than about practice and policy?
Was your child given adequate first aid? Did they offer to help out with your older child? Did they offer to call an ambulance to take you to emergency room? etc.
I ask from personal experience -- 2 years ago in Disney, my son (then 5) was hurt seriously enough to need emergency room care. It was clear to me that NO ONE at Disney knew what to do (a total shock to me - they may have the mouse thing down, but not could not have responded worse to a medical emergency). It took at least 10 minues to even get directions to their first aid. And then I had to carry my bleeding, screaming son in my arms. Luckily another visitor helped with my daughter.
Anyway -- without more drama about me -- every pool employee, including lifeguards, snack bar, maintenace, etc. should know what to do when anyone is hurt. Especially since it is a family place -- they should know what to do -- your wife should have been able to attend to your son, while someone from the pool should have taken your daughter aside, calmed her...
Hope your little guy will get into the water again soon and have fun!
Pete
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sylad
Citizen
Username: Sylad
Post Number: 18
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 11:07 am: |
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I am not sure the the pool is a bargin, based on our property tax. Over the past two years they have done upgrades to the big pool. I moved her in 1998 and no work as been done to the medium or small pool. We love the pool and have not had any problems with our kids. That said, my only issue is that parents and baby sitters to not attend/watch/pay attention to their kids. About a month ago a women lost a kid she was watching for about 30 minutes. The staff was not a big help, they did not know what to do...other parents got involved in the search...but it was scary..kid was found but the staff is not trained for that situtation.
So pay attention to your kids...leave the book/computer/newspaper at home!!!!! |
sylad
Citizen
Username: Sylad
Post Number: 19
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 11:08 am: |
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I am not sure the the pool is a bargin, based on our property tax. Over the past two years they have done upgrades to the big pool. I moved her in 1998 and no work as been done to the medium or small pool. We love the pool and have not had any problems with our kids. That said, my only issue is that some parents and baby sitters to not attend/watch/pay attention to their kids. About a month ago a women lost a kid she was watching for about 30 minutes. The staff was not a big help, they did not know what to do...other parents got involved in the search...but it was scary..kid was found but the staff is not trained for that situtation.
So pay attention to your kids...leave the book/computer/newspaper at home!!!!! |
Yossarian
Citizen
Username: Yossarian
Post Number: 7
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 11:24 am: |
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Pete --
The "manager's" response was as I described it. I don't think he even asked to see the cut, and he certainly didn't offer any first aid. My wife left with both kids after talking to him, went home and took a closer look at the wound. It's deep but not wide, and seems to be fine with the home treatment we've give it. I don't think there will be any scars (physical or emotional), but I have to say we aren't in a hurry to get back to the SO pool.
As for the charitible fund that Susan suggests, that's a fine idea, but again the question of equity comes up. If those of us who are interested in seeing the pool conditions improve give $30, $40 or even $50 toward the effort, there will surely be many others who don't contribute (either because they can't afford to, or they think the pool is fine as it is). Is that fair?
Seems to me the town should take pride in its pool and make the necessary improvements. Speaking of which, there are areas around the kiddie pool that have large cracks with protuding and sharp edges. This is unquestionably a hazard. Let's just hope it doesn't take a more serious accident (if a child fell on one of those cracks, the injury could be very substantial) to get these repaired. And BTW, if the insurance company writing coverage for the pool learned of this condition, I'm sure they'd be interested.
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patjoyce
Citizen
Username: Patjoyce
Post Number: 15
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 12:02 pm: |
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The $15 fee is a fee for use of all recreation (pool, tennis courts, etc.)facilities in the Village. There is some history involving statutes and lawsuits dating back to 1971, which involves the cost of the pool. The fee up until two years ago was $7 per year.
The pool did undergo significant upgrades last year (new filter system for the big pool, and some replacement of cement around the filter housing unit).
My family uses the pool almost daily. I do think that the floor of the pool has deteriorated and I will ask the members of the Rec Committee to discuss the condition at the next meeting.
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kevin
Citizen
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 72
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 12:41 pm: |
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I think that the pool is in adequate shape for the amount of time that I spend there. I have been to pools in worse condition that charge a whole lot more for season passes.
Yossarian: Why would it not be fair if I don't contribute $30, $40, or $50 to a charity fund for the pool? I am sure that there are others that use the pool more than I -- in fact, I have only gone once so far this season (and have had my badge since the beginning of the season).
A 'use' donation might be more appropriate, like they do at the museums. Have something like a $2 or $5 badge check donation at the entrance. You do not have to pay if you don't have the means to or are opposed to it. I think that would work out better than people complaining about fairness issues when asked to donate a lump sum.
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J. Crohn
Citizen
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 335
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 12:47 pm: |
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"As for the charitible fund that Susan suggests, that's a fine idea, but again the question of equity comes up. If those of us who are interested in seeing the pool conditions improve give $30, $40 or even $50 toward the effort, there will surely be many others who don't contribute (either because they can't afford to, or they think the pool is fine as it is). Is that fair?"
No. So what? Free riders watch PBS and listen to WNYC, too. |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 12:52 pm: |
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I have used the pool for years. This year it does seem to have deteriorated in some respects. The staff does not appear to be doing anything to control unruly children and teenagers who race around, screaming at each other and splashing everyone else. When you enter the pool, you have to run a gauntlet of foul-mouthed giggling teenagers lounging in the pool house. The women's bathroom is disgusting. There are rough spots on the bottoms of the pools--my five-year-old grandson got a bloody scrape on his foot. And if you need any help from the recreation department office, eg. buying a guest pass, prepare to spend at least half an hour standing on line in the hot, unventilated ante room while the rude, incompetant teenager behind the desk gabbles inanities to her friends. Other than that, I love the pool. |
ral
Citizen
Username: Ral
Post Number: 58
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 1:40 pm: |
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Note the thread "South Orange pool conditions," in which I raised some of these troubling maintenance issues at the beginning of the summer and was told by one of the trustees that my complaints would be forwarded to the town administrator, etc. I'm still curious as to whether any work has been done on these matters THIS SUMMER. The moldy shower curtain and other appalling conditions in the women's bathroom still exist....
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Yossarian
Citizen
Username: Yossarian
Post Number: 8
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 2:01 pm: |
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Fairness and 'use' fees aside, the bottom line is that the pool conditions are not adequate. My kids shouldn't be subjected to foul language by pool employees as they enter the facility. My son should not get a bloody cut (and Lizziecat's grandson shouldn't get a bloody scrape).
The pool - for the most part - is not a disaster. In fact, with a little work, it could be something quite special. But right now it is far from special. (Forget about using the locker rooms, they ARE a disaster. The other day when my wife was in the ladies locker, there were used maxi pads on the floor, one of which was stepped on by a woman and her daughter trying to get changed. Talk about YUCK!)
The thread ral mentions has a lot of complaints, and I don't know that any of them have been addressed.
We can all just say, what the heck, it's essentially free, and some communities don't even have a pool, let's just be happy with what we have (or join private swim clubs). Or, as a group, we can make enough noise so that the unsafe and unsanitary conditions are improved by the time next spring rolls around.
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vermontgolfer
Citizen
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 65
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 4:45 pm: |
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Washashore,
It seems to me that you've drifted a bit in this thread. To make this unfortunate incident a political position if frankly uncalled for. If you don't like the administration then do something about it, run yourself, but please don't interject your views of our BOT in a thread that has nothing to do with what side of the political fence you sit on.
Everyone else here has voiced and raised legitimate issues that the Dept. of Recreation seriously need to address, but again please let's keep the politics in the politic threads.
Yossarian,
You've started a very interesting issue and one that needs to be addressed and hopefully all these issues will be forwarded to the appropriate parties. Again, glad your son seems to be OK. |
SOmama
Citizen
Username: Somama
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 10:52 pm: |
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Patjoyce mentioned:The $15 fee is a fee for use of all recreation (pool, tennis courts, etc.)facilities in the Village.
Sorry to deviate from the original subject "pool conditions" but when I read this I once again wondered why do I have to pay this fee for my 6 week old son? He is not actually "using" the facilities. He can fly on any commercial airline and enjoy their "service" for free yet to roll his stroller to the side of the pool is $15- ironic isn't it? |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 22
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 12:07 am: |
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It's fifteen dollars! Lighten up! In any other town--in Maplewood--you'd have to pay a fee of several hundred dollars to use the pool--and there is often a waiting list. We have a bargain here! |
Yossarian
Citizen
Username: Yossarian
Post Number: 14
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 8:45 am: |
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SOmama --
I'm not sure you could even get a badge for a six week old, since you need to show an original birth certificate when you register. Our certificates took months to come in the mail.
By the way, my son's cut became infected and required a trip to the doctor and antibiotics. And still the question lingers, will the conditions be improved?
I'm still too new to town to know who's who, but have any "officials" been a part of this thread. Is there anyone other than us "posters" who is aware of these issues and willing to make changes? |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 568
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 8:52 am: |
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Yossarian: We are aware of the issues. Some were already addressed. The recreation committee has promised to discuss this and make suggestions/recommendations that can be implemented before next summer. I am not on that committee, but Pat Joyce is who posted earlier on this thread so I know he is aware of the comments and concerns.
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CageyD
Citizen
Username: Cageyd
Post Number: 4
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 9:55 am: |
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The pool staff this year is especially bad. In years previous, I could count on the staff to uniformly enforce rules (no splashing, running, etc) The lifeguards this year could care less about enforcing the rules. I had to remind a life guard in the medium pool that flotation devices (arm floats) were not allowed in the pool as she watched two children using them right under her nose. Aggressive splashing and even some bullying has gone on with the "lifeguards" being indifferent. Yesterday, my 7 year old son was watching a two square game and the guy playing it was yelling f*ck, sh*t, g*d d*nm throughout. I was going to find a life guard to get help in controlling it until my son pointed out that this guy WAS a life guard and when my son tried to get involved in the game the life guard called my son a "jerk". Beyond talking to the rec. commission - which wouldn't accomplish anything seeing that the rec commission believes that Andy Brady the Baird Center does a good job - why doesn't someone with authority talk to the big guy with dark hair who seems to run the pool. Isn't he accountable for his staff. It seems as though once you get a job in the rec. department, you can do a miserable job and no one will ever hold you accountable. } |
mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 352
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 10:04 am: |
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I also was baffled at having to pay $15 last year for our infant to go to the pool, but...whatever.
It was even funnier this year, when they told us we didn't need to get a new picture for her badge (like an infant doesn't change much in appearance over a 12 month period?)
Not to drift the thread too much, but someone above stated the $15 is a fee for use of all recreation (pool, tennis courts, etc.)facilities in the Village.
Last week I was playing tennis one evening (the lights were on when I arrived and someone was using the other court). When the other group of people went to leave, they asked "did you pay for the lights, otherwise we're having them shut off"
Since we didn't pay, sure enough the lights went off less than 5 minutes later.
Can someone help me understand the policy/cost for using the lights at the tennis court? I thought this was included in the $15 we pay at the beginning of the season for our badge.
Thanks. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 569
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 10:28 am: |
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Mayhewdrive: There is a charge to have the lights turned on (don't remember how much). Obviously lights are expensive (electricity, and bulbs) so it seems fair to charge extra.
The recreation badge ($15.00) is to make sure only residents use the pool, tennis courts, paddle tennis courts, basketball courts, etc.
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Allan J Rosen
Citizen
Username: Allanrosen
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 10:59 am: |
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For the record, the athletic badge serves as an ID. It is true that only South Orange residents (and sometimes their guests when guest passes are purchased) can use the pool. But nonresidents can use the tennis, paddle-tennis, and other Green Acres facilities in town. The town is entitled to charge differential fees (as for the tennis lights) to nonresidents. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5064
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:12 am: |
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Here's one I could never understand: If the parks close at dusk or 8pm or 10pm, why can people play platform tennis until midnight, 1am, etc.? |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5065
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:13 am: |
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Hey, three Trustees posting in one thread? I believe we have a record. |
mary032
Citizen
Username: Mary032
Post Number: 10
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:25 am: |
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Does anyone know the rules for bringing guests to the pool? |
patjoyce
Citizen
Username: Patjoyce
Post Number: 22
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:59 am: |
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To bring guests to the pool a resident must purchase a strip containing five guest passes. At the pool entrance the guest pass is presented and the guest is given a bracelet indicating their ability to use the pool for the day. I believe that the guest may stay at the pool only as long as the resident stays.
Hey Alan and Mark, I think we've made Dave's day.
Patrick |
mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 355
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 3:43 pm: |
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What is the fee for using lights at the tennis courts (by the pool) and how/where do you pay for that?
If the answer is "the Baird Center", is someone there at 7, 8 or 9pm to accept payment? |
deadwhitemale
Citizen
Username: Deadwhitemale
Post Number: 378
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 12:30 pm: |
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Ross:
They may be impostors.
DNA tests needed.
DWM |
deadwhitemale
Citizen
Username: Deadwhitemale
Post Number: 379
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 12:34 pm: |
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In any event, kudos to them, and, why won't the members of the Board of Ed do the same?
DWM |
Allan J Rosen
Citizen
Username: Allanrosen
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 1:06 pm: |
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mayhew drive: The answers are yes and yes. You pay at Baird and there are attendants there until roughly 9:30 PM |
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