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jhb
Citizen
Username: Jhb
Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 - 11:08 pm: | 
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I think this town needs to seriously re-examine the way things are run around here and the so-called zoning laws that exist in South Orange. I recently went before the planning board seeking a variance on my property (for which I incidentally pay $18,000 a year in taxes, but that's a whole separate issue). I applied for this variance out of a safety issue and in short, I was turned down. Now I understand that there are laws in this town concerning what can and can't be done on the properties that we own and pay taxes for and I'm fine with that. I know it helps maintain the integrity of our neighborhoods. But the purpose of a variance is to seek help or relief, if you will, from our government, to assist the residents of this town with their needs. This case was born out of a concern for the safety of my family. And I was told that there are rules and ordinances that cannot be broken. I think it's pretty sad that our town's planning board is more concerned with it's bizarre ordinances (lot coverage not to exceed 30%, for example) than the safety of it's own residents. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1836
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 - 12:32 am: |
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"This case was born out of a concern for the safety of my family."
To comment one way or the other, we should first be able to determine if the planning board has acted fairly or not. To do that we need to know what it is that you applied for, and why they turned you down...
You seem to already agree there are laws concerning what we can and can't do on the properties we own and pay taxes for. So the rest should be easy once you give us the facts...
Hey, if you hurry, you may still be able to appeal their decision!
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jhb
Citizen
Username: Jhb
Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 - 9:23 am: |
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Hi Ajc,
I was simply trying to install a circular driveway on my property. That's it. I want the ability to pull out of my driveway facing forward. Backing out is very frightening - there is a bad blind spot that could lead to an accident.
Didn't think it was such a big deal considering the vast number of homes in town that already have these driveways. |
kevin
Citizen
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 76
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 - 11:26 am: |
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jhb: How many feet of frontage does your property have?
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ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1840
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 - 9:51 pm: |
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I'm not sure how wide your property is, but another solution I've seen work is using the upside down "L" at the top of the driveway. I suspect if you have the room for a circular drive, you probably have enough space for it...
This plan will give you room to make a "K" turn and allow you to pull out the same driveway cut you pulled in. I find many towns don't want to lose the street parking in certain parts of town that happens with circular driveways. Good luck.
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Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5090
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 12:55 am: |
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Ah, of course! It would require knocking out curb space. Now it's a bit clearer (thanks to our resident parking guru). |
wnb
Citizen
Username: Wnb
Post Number: 43
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 9:50 am: |
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Is there a reasonable compromise possible that achieves the same result of your car facing forward both in & out of the driveway? How about a simple turnaround instead of a full circular driveway? My neighbor has one of these and it was coincidentally build by the town as part of an intersection reconstruction.
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jhb
Citizen
Username: Jhb
Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 11:32 am: |
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Thanks for all your advice. We're considering what to do next.
Incidentally, at the hearing there was no mention of the concern for parking as the reason for this being turned down. It seems that someone in town hall decided that circular driveways are not attractive and may also encourage residents not to park in their garages which they claim is unsightly. Nice. So instead of being concerned for someone's safety, this town is concerned with it's appearance. That's really what's driving me crazy! Just makes no sense. . .
I'm just suggesting that this town take another look at some of it's archaic laws. And maybe it's time to increase the allotted lot coverage laws in some of our neighborhoods. For the taxes we pay, it would be nice to use more of our own land! |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 9
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 11:51 am: |
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Several of my neighbors were recently visited by our town's "aesthetic police" - fix your sidewalk, paint your house, trim your bushes etc. Happily we escaped this year, but have had to replace our sidewalk in the past... and it really wasn't all that bad at the time! IMHO, they've gone way beyond their boundaries - my neighbor's homes are not in bad condition and, in this economy, unless the house is peeling and unsightly, forcing someone to take out a loan to paint their home or pay a substantial fine is outrageous! (Anyone else had to deal with this?)
I don't believe other towns do this.. Millburn certainly doesn't as evidanced by the home on Wyoming near the Glen Rd intersection that's been missing a good portion of its roof for at least a year! |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 580
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 12:00 pm: |
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jhb: First, the board of adjustment consists of volunteers. They do not report to the Board of Trustees and they come to their own decisions without input or pressure from any elected official.
The village has adjusted or made changes to ordinances when it appears that it might be causing more harm than good or is "archaic". In the case of lot coverage, the village is reviewing all the residential zones (work is being done by a professional planning firm that does work for many towns in the area). The planning board will review and then make suggestions. The BOT will then act accordingly.
The BOA will give an exception ( a variance) whenever they think a good reason/argument has been made.
I will say that the lot coverage rule works pretty well and except for some odd shaped property's, 30% usually works. In some areas the zoning allows for 40% coverage. It is true it is hard to make laws that fit every size and sometimes don't seem to make sense. However, in most cases they work and in those cases where they don't a homeowner can get a variance. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1845
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 12:04 pm: |
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..."this town is concerned with it's appearance."
Maybe so, but if we start to ignore the appearance of our neighborhoods, before you know it our land values will suffer for it. Try not to be so harsh on the town for trying to do their job. There is more than just one way to solve your problem.
If you're really so concerned about the safety aspects of backing out of your property, they make vehicle turntables for driveways that would probably be cheaper in the long run then installing a circular driveway. These turntables are also used in commercial parking garages in case you decide to follow up on the idea. Again, good luck. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 581
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 2:11 pm: |
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SoOrLady: Most towns in suburbia have ordinances about maintaining property. Even in Milburn.
Repairing sidewalks and trimming bushes/trees are for safety reasons too. The code enforcement officers only want the sidewalks to be reasonably level and without large holes. The bushes and trees need to be trimmed so one can walk on the sidewalk without having to go into the street. At intersections, cars need a line of vision. All safety reasons.
They are usually pretty lenient about painting. A house has to be in pretty bad shape before it is cited. The time limit is pretty long and extensions are given when needed.
Funny thing is usually the complaint is that the town does not crack down on homeowners enough and too many people have houses that look like they are in serious need of repair or painting.
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Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5094
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 2:59 pm: |
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Why doesn't the ordinance apply to:
- Desolate lots in the center of the village
- Empty, delapidated village-owned properties
- Barren lot for the bungled SOPAC project
- The soon-appearing hideous tennis balloon?
Maybe the BOT should start practicing what it preaches? |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 10
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 3:07 pm: |
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Mr. Rosner, I can assure you that our sidewalk was, in fact, reasonably level and only had a couple of small holes/cracks on the edges. We even asked for someone to come and re-evaluate it with us.... still had to replace it. At the time, no extension policy was mentioned, we were just told to fix it by a certain date or pay a fine.
Our house paint seems to be holding up nicely, but I'm happy to hear that extensions are available and will pass that information on to my neighbors.
A request for trimming bush/tree overgrowth for reasons of safety is certainly understanable and by far the least expensive.
The first time I saw the house I mentioned in Millburn I thought, wow.. handyman special! Now, with the rain and snow falling into it for over a year... just get the bulldozer. I've also noticed far more homes in Millburn that need attention than in So. Orange, so if they have the property maintenance ordinance, it must be very lax. |
OK, it's Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 451
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 5:39 pm: |
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Whether or not you deserve a variance, and whether or not you get it, until then, is it possible to back into your driveway? This way, you'll pull out forwards. As a bona fide Bell Labs geek, I learned long ago that backing in is safer and actually requires less effort overall. You need fairly quiet and cooperative traffic to do this, though.
I back into spaces in parking lots about 95% of the time. My family thinks I'm a bit obsessive compulsive, and perhaps they're right, but it works for me. When I back into a space, I know that no unexpected traffic will hit me. When I pull out, I can see traffic well.
Tom Reingold
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kevin
Citizen
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 77
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 9:31 pm: |
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The 30% lot coverage is there for a reason.
First off, we don't want the town to look like Staten Island or any other place that lets you build on most of the lot.
Another big factor is environmental. The more impervious surfaces that you have, the less places there is to soak up excess water. This causes more runoff which eventually changes the flood zones and erodes existing watersheds and waterbasins. The sewer system can only handle and divert so much runoff until it gets overloaded.
Tom: The funny thing is that in many towns, it is illegal to back into spaces in parking lots. It might not be enforced, but you can be issued a summons. I am not sure about the laws in MW/SO.
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Washashore
Citizen
Username: Washashore
Post Number: 60
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 10:13 pm: |
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Dave Ross: If I didn't know it wasn't, I would have thought your last post was written by...me!
Keep up the good work! |
shoshannah
Citizen
Username: Shoshannah
Post Number: 209
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 5, 2003 - 11:05 am: |
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Here's another angle, JHB: A gravel circular driveway. I am not certain, but it is possible that gravel does not contribute to the percentage of impervious surface. |
ral
Citizen
Username: Ral
Post Number: 60
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, September 7, 2003 - 9:43 pm: |
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I'd like to go back to Mark Rosner's mention of tree-trimming by local residents, and ask whether the town pays enough attention to trees at town facilities. I am thinking specifically of the overgrown, seemingly dangerous trees at the Farrell Field playground. As a parent whose young children often play there, I've been worried about the dangling branches and so forth. Shouldn't the town make sure its playgrounds are safe?
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