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Message |
    
amandacat
Citizen
Username: Amandacat
Post Number: 286
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 4:58 pm: | 
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My sweet, loving, weird-ass cat has been having "litter box issues", and try as I can I just can't figure out why or how to fix it. I'm getting desperate. Has anyone had any experience with a professional cat (or other animal) behaviorist, by any chance?
wearily yours,
-amandcat
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dules
Citizen
Username: Dules
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 5:04 pm: |
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Have you talked to your vet? Are there any changes in your life/your cat's life that might have caused this?
I don't know any behaviorists but I love Dr Cameron in Montclair - when he introduced himself to me and DH he told us that we didn't need to like him, what's important is that he thinks like our cats - and it has been true, lol! He's very no-nonsense and can tell almost immediately what's bothering them.
Good luck, I know this is tough - years ago I had a cat with night "haunting" and spraying issues. It's trying on both if you.
Best,
Julie |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2173
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 5:07 pm: |
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Preheat the oven to 350 degrees.. Melt half the butter in a large frying pan. Add the cat, season with salt and pepper, and brown it all over. Melt the remaining butter in another frying pan. Add the apple slices and cook them until golden brown. Put a layer of apple slices in a deep casserole dish in which the cat will fit securely. Place kitty on top of the apple slices, face down, and pack it around with the rest of the apple. Pour in one-third of the cream.
Roast , cover for 1 hour or until the cat is cooked, turning the cat over after 30 minutes. Remove the casserole from the oven and increase the heat to 450 degrees. Pour in the remaining cream and then the Calvados (or apple-jack) over kitty. Adjust the seasoning, cover the casserole and return it to the oven for 5 minutes. Serve from the casserole. Serves 2-3
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Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 80
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 5:17 pm: |
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Could be she has a urinary tract infecton. See the vet. |
curb
Citizen
Username: Curb
Post Number: 335
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 5:25 pm: |
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No, I think mem is just hungry. |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 132
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 7:36 pm: |
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mem, oh sweet JESUS! That is funny. I had a horrible day at work, and our 12 year old cat has litter box issues (she was using the entirety of the basement).
Your post has given me the strength to get through the evening, and pumpkin carving.
THANK YOU! |
beppolina
Citizen
Username: Beppolina
Post Number: 38
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 11:03 pm: |
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Mem, can I substitute a willful and not particularly affectionate terrier for the cat? |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2174
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 9:17 am: |
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You're welcome! I have a 17 year old little Siamese gentleman who is a sweetheart, as well as my new greyhound, so I am not a "cat hater". Just kidding around. |
sam
Citizen
Username: Sam
Post Number: 56
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:43 am: |
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Amandacat - First off, make sure it's not physiological by seeing a vet.
Our 12 year old was having issues, mainly pooping outside his box. We went to SO Vet. Clinic and Dr. Levine suggested limiting his access during the day.
We now lock him in the downstairs bathroom with his own litterbox and food while we are at work, and he is a better man for it. I think we've had one accident in the last three months. While I do feel guilty confining him, I think he is calmer with his own space (we also have two others). Good luck.
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Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 136
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:51 am: |
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We did something similar. We had the catbox in the basement. Cat wasn't used to having a basement (moved here recently). Seeing all the boxes and crumpled paper seemed to make her think she could go anywhere.
Brought the box upstairs, under a desk. Much better. Wish to God she'd go outside though. She plays outside a lot. Half wondering if (1) we moved the box outside, (2) put a pile of litter on the ground, (3) slowly withdrew the amount of litter -- she'd get trained to use outside. |
Yossarian
Citizen
Username: Yossarian
Post Number: 61
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 1:00 pm: |
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We've had a similar problem with our 14 year old cat. Recently we added a second litter pan (now there are two really big ones in our basement, placed side by side), and switched back to clumping litter, which we clean daily.
So far it's worked like a charm.
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amandacat
Citizen
Username: Amandacat
Post Number: 287
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 5:27 pm: |
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Thanks for all the feedback -- and for the recipe, Mem, though I'm watching my figure these days and am leery of using so much cream. Can I substitute skim milk plus instead?
As for the cat in question -- a 16 month old neutered male whose name is Ray, by the way -- his story is way too complicated to bore you with all the details here, but suffice it to say that I've been doing a lot of research on why good cats gos bad and, alas, none of the profiles fit him to a T.
Yes, he has had a traumatic change in his life -- Otis, his brother/companion/littermate, died suddenly in May of an undiagnosed heart defect at ten months of age -- but there were a handful of "accidents" in the house even while Otis was still around. We really think he'd benefit from having another kitty around to play with, but are terrified of adding another cat to the house while this litterbox issue is still unresolved.
He uses his litterbox quite regularly, only going outside the box maybe once evey two weeeks. We've tried multiple litterboxes, we've tried moving his litterbox(es) to different sections of the house, we've tried all different kinds of litter (scoopable, clay, crystals), we've used Feliway, removed rugs, and gone through bottles of Nature's Miracle, and just when we think we've got the problem licked he leaves yet another load on the floor.
I finally took him to the vet two weeks ago, and though she did find some evidence of crystals in his urine she thinks his problems are most likely behavioral rather than medical -- never have I been so upset to hear that a beloved pet was NOT sick! We're going to treat him for the crystals just in case, but if that doesn't work it looks like we're gonna have to save up our money and call in an expert -- I just don't see any other way around it.
If only he weren't so damn sweet and loving, we might be tempted to follow Mem's advice instead . . .
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millie
Citizen
Username: Millie
Post Number: 78
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 5:48 pm: |
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There's a radio personality on one of the NY stations (either WOR or WABC) on the weekend (probably Sundays) who deals with these issues all the time. A man, maybe Howard something, but definitely with a Jewish surname. Maybe another MOL person can give you details.
Somebody called last week about this and his advice was something like:
Get a black light and shine it wherever you think there was a problem and you'll probably be surprised it's greater than you thought. Use Nature's Miracle to get rid of the odor.
When you see your cat going in the wrong spot, or see evidence of his having gone, do the Nature's Miracle thing and put your cat's food there. He will learn to associate that his food will follow him wherever he "goes" outside the litterbox.
He also said to put a couple of litterboxes around just temporarily... I can't remember the details, but he has a full system for addressing the problem, so... call up or listen in. |
finnegan
Citizen
Username: Finnegan
Post Number: 43
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 7:52 pm: |
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We had the same problem and were frankly defeated by it.
Millburn Veterinary Hospital gave us the name of an animal behaviorist in PA, but it was impossible to reach her (she was moving her office for one thing, and only working one day a week.)
So, I consulted some other behaviorists and they told me that cats are very hard to train to do anything (big surprise.) Rewarding the cat for its good behavior doesn't work well; what would work as a postiive reinforcer for any given cat will change, perhaps minute by minute. And even if your cat had a reliably favorite treat, think what this would mean - parking yourself next to the litter box so that you can reinforce the cat's good behavior each time the cat uses the box. Doesn't sound fun, even if you had a reliable reinforcer.
The other option is to punish the bad behavior. So, you follow kitty around and when you catch the cat in the act of going outside the litter box, you need to punish that behavior. A squirt bottle of water might work, but according to the experts, an air horn is the most effective.
I had visions of staying up all night, following kitty around until I caught her in the act, and then setting off the airhorn - awaking the whole house and provoking the neighbors into calling the police (who would blame them?)
As I said, we were defeated, and decided to make her an outdoor cat. I'm still working on exactly what we are going to do when the weather gets really cold.
Litter box issues can be a nightmare, and you have my sympathy. If you find a behavioral solution that works, I'd love to hear about it. Good luck. |
Marc
Citizen
Username: Bautisma
Post Number: 46
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:00 pm: |
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Maybe you want to see if there is something like this for cats. Actually I'm not sure if it is a joke or not
http://www.dogswatchtv.com/ |
wharfrat
Citizen
Username: Wharfrat
Post Number: 821
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 5:36 am: |
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Amandacat-
I digress, BUT, Ray and Otis are cool names for cats. Care to share the namesake history? |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1853
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 6:20 am: |
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We have used a professional behaviorist for a much more complicated problem. I really liked the guy, although he is expensive. Privateline me if you want to talk.
Dr. Peter Borchelt
Animal Behavior Consultants Inc
10825 63rd Rd
Forest Hills, NY 11375-1351
(718) 891-4200 |
NCJanow
Citizen
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 1054
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 6:42 am: |
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Hi..if Amandacat doesn't mind me answering for her(I hope), Ray and Otis were named for Otis Redding and Ray Charles,I believe. My daughter and I took care of them for a few days, and they were super adorable. Not accidents during that period of time, but I have experienced it with my own (4) cats. I too gave up and let them go outside. I leave the screen door to my sunporch open and when they want to come in they hang out on the couch there and occasionally scratch at the door to the house when they've had enough of the outdoors..
NCJ aka LibraryLady
On a coffee break..or something like it.
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amandacat
Citizen
Username: Amandacat
Post Number: 289
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 12:15 pm: |
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I don't mind at all, Nancy. Yes, Ray & Otis were names after those two amazing musicians, Ray Charles and Otis Redding. Ray, a pleasingly plump tabby with white nose, paws, chest & belly looked like he was wearing a cool crazy tux, like something Ray Charles might wear. Otis was skinny, all white but with tabby markings on his ears and back, and I'm not exactly sure why but for some reason that reminded my husband of Otis Redding. They were quite a pair together -- we called them our little soul brothers.
Though Ray was presumably once an outdoor cat -- he and Otis were found stuck in a tree in a little league park in Parsippanny -- we've kept him indoors only since we adopted him, and it really doesn't seem to bother him. He likes to stare ot this window, sure, but he never tries to run out the door as we're coming and going, in sharp contrast to our former cat Amanda, who seemed to live for the chance to escape our evil clutches. Somehow I just can't see him as an outdoor only cat -- he likes hanging out with us way too much. We also live on a busy corner, and though our back yard is fully fenced in I don't expect a cat to respect such puny human boundaries . . .
Lseltzer (it's Larry, isn't it?), our vet also recommended we call Dr. Borchelt, so I'm very curious to hear how he worked out for you. I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger on a behaviorist yet, mostly for financial reasons -- we've only had this cat for less than a year, and already he's cost us almost $700 in veterinary bills -- but when we finally resign ourselves to the inevitable I will definitely PL you for details, if that's ok.
Thanks again, everyone, for all your very helpful input. I love the MOL community, you guys are the greatest! |
amandacat
Citizen
Username: Amandacat
Post Number: 290
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 1:15 pm: |
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Ray & Otis, at age 6 months. |
dules
Citizen
Username: Dules
Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 2:22 pm: |
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Hi Amandacat,
I posted above about Dr Cameron in Montclair, and mentioned that I used to have a cat with other issues. Now that I hear more about your cat's issues I wanted to post again.
Jules (still my username namesake) was the world's coolest cat but very neurotic at times. He sprayed in the house (despite being neutered) and "haunted" at night from around 2 AM -5 AM, making sleep nearly impossible. We would put him in the bathroom with a folded towel on the counter, litter, food and water, and turn on the fan. The white noise and confined space seemed to quiet him.
The rest of the time he was social, friendly to the point of outgoing, made friends with other cats, etc. We can only imagine that he had some sort of trauma before we adopted him at age 2 that resulted in some of his odd behavior.
At any rate, we didn't live in NJ at the time and we went to many vets, most of whom recommended putting him down if we weren't willing to live with it. We eventually found one vet who agreed with us that there was some kind of anxiety causing his behavior.
We tried a variety of meds (don't laugh): Valium, Phenobarbitol, Buspar. The Phenobarbitol worked the best, one a day at bedtime let him sleep/relax until around 6 AM most nights.
Just wanted to throw the idea of pharma-therapy (?) out there as another option, in case you don't have luck with a behaviorist.
Best of luck to you,
Julie |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2190
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 4:02 pm: |
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So, if I stop using the toilet, will I become eligible for these drugs? |
dules
Citizen
Username: Dules
Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 1, 2003 - 11:22 am: |
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Funny. I supposed it would depend on why you stopped. |
breal
Citizen
Username: Breal
Post Number: 259
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 2, 2003 - 9:49 pm: |
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I endorse Dr. Malampati's 10-day 3-part miracle cure. For 10 days you give your cat:
1. A cat hormone--megesterol? This sure blissed out our wigged out kitty. Maybe it's just Prozac by another name.
2. Amoxicillan (sp?). In case the problem is an infection, and not just behavioral.
3. A dollop of Omega-3 fatty acid fish oil stuff. Here's the best part about this stuff, which you squeeze out of a tube: You dispense it by smearing it on the kitty's upper "lip," in a kind of fish oil moustache. As you apply it, the cat just looks at you like you're insane, which of course, you are, thanks to Mr. Stinky himself. After the first lick, though, the cat loses his hauteur and focuses on scarfing down the rest of his moustache.
Friends, I am telling you that after Dr. Malampati's 10-day 3-part miracle cure, my cat learned to love his litterbox. It truly was a miracle. Amandacat, get to Dr Malampati ASAP!
P.S. We also switched to Everclean litter, per a suggestion on this board. I think the cat didn't like the scent of the other stuff.
Good luck! |
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