| Author |
Message |
    
Marvin Gardens
Citizen
Username: Marvin_gardens
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 1:40 pm: | 
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I was in Columbia HS over the weekend taking my son to his swim class and if I didn't know that kids actually went there, I would have thought it was condemned. Maybe that was just by the swimming pool but it looks awful.
_______________
Do Not Pass Go
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vermontgolfer
Citizen
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 180
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 2:34 pm: |
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marvin gardens,
Columbia is not the only school in our district that looks in disrepair. Guess Dr. H and the gang didn't have enough resources, after their raises etc., to fix up our schools. |
extuscan
Citizen
Username: Extuscan
Post Number: 227
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 7:57 pm: |
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Oooohh, the swimming pool. Why yes, its horrific! A swamp, a pit, a cesspool.
It was once, well, beautiful... 
notice the chandeliers, gone.
notice the giant window, now covered with "C-Wing"
notice the railing is not a tube of rust held together with paint
notice that the barrel vaulted terracotta ceiling in a herringbone pattern with RAISED grout (very rare) is actually ATTACHED to the CEILING!
And, most amazing of all, you can see the bottom of the pool. Mind boggling.
Yes, the CHS pool has been absolute trashed and neglected. Sad fact is though, it took decades to get this bad.
PS to any former CHS students... did you have to swim naked? My father did and my piano teacher did!
--John |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 99
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 8:08 pm: |
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It's not just Columbia. I took an adult school class at SO middle school a couple of years ago, and while the class was in session a couple of ceiling tiles fell down narrowly missing the people in the room. The tiles crashed onto a desk where a kid might have been sitting during the day. |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 156
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 8:29 pm: |
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Didn't the Board issue a bond for capital improvements?
Did it include the pool? |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1628
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 8:36 pm: |
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John - you have a thing about the pool. When was the last time you were actually there? It actually looks terrific. New lighting. Cleaned tile. THe water sparkles. Hey, we have a pool and millburn does not!
Now, the locker rooms I have a problem with...oh, and a friend of mine , class of 72, had to swim naked. |
extuscan
Citizen
Username: Extuscan
Post Number: 230
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 9:29 pm: |
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Hmmm... ffof... you seem to have missed the original post in this topic.... something about...
"Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 1:40 pm:
I was in Columbia HS over the weekend taking my son to his swim class and if I didn't know that kids actually went there, I would have thought it was condemned. Maybe that was just by the swimming pool but it looks awful."
Ah, independant verification. Makes me feel all good inside.
--John |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 22
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 10:03 pm: |
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When almost 90% of the BOE's budget is being spent on salaries and benefits for the employees, it's no wonder that there is not a lot left for maintenance.
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ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 2146
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 12:45 am: |
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Extuscan, ... we were all naked as Jay Birds. BTW, do they still have co-ed swim classes? 
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bpaandco
Citizen
Username: Bpaandco
Post Number: 48
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 2:09 am: |
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The girls wore school issued bathing suits. One piece cotton things that got washed and used over and over again. Quite becoming! |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 169
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 4:34 am: |
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Does anyone have info on Reflective's query about bonds? If there is one, what does it include?
I'd noticed the state of the bathrooms in S Orange Middle and Clinton Elementary. Doors to stalls missing, some non-functional sinks, toilet problems. Looked like some significant repair/replacement of fixtures was in order. |
wharfrat
Citizen
Username: Wharfrat
Post Number: 837
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 4:56 am: |
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When almost 90% of the BOE's budget is being spent on salaries and benefits for the employees, it's no wonder that there is not a lot left for maintenance.
Hey Chris,
Can you verify this %? Or are you just shootin' off at the mouth?
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Michael K. Mc Kell
Citizen
Username: Greenerose
Post Number: 95
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 9:01 am: |
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I Graduated Marshall, SOJH and CHS and was a member of the swim team.
The pool was nice and the schools were in good shape.
Such a shame.
Michael K. Mc Kell
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Cliff Harris
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 124
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 10:05 am: |
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Why should Chris need to verify this? Isn't it something that a member, or members of the BOE, past or present, could make available? Why shouldn't they be held accountable?
Chris may have offered that simply to provoke an answer from those in the know. If he didn't, well let's still hear from our elected BOE officials. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1629
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 12:04 pm: |
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Hey ext- I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder Don't you live out of town town? |
jfburch
Citizen
Username: Jfburch
Post Number: 1063
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 12:08 pm: |
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cynicalgirl, reflective is correct about the bond issue. I don't know the details but it is to cover years and years of deferred maintenance and maybe soem other stuff. |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 25
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 9:48 pm: |
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Wharfrat & Cliff Harris:
That information comes from the BOE annual budget. I try to follow it closely, although a lot of the information is presented in what can only be called a deliberately confusing manner. By my best estimate, 85-90% of the entire budget is spent on salaries and benefits, so by no means am I guessing.
If you ask the BOE members, they will give you the same awnser, assuming they have taken the time to research the issue.
And that is the reason so little is left to spend on maintenance and upkeep. And why the BOE has to issue long term bonds to finance the purchase of desktops that are obsolete in two years. And why the entire system seem so threadbare, despite a budget exceeding $70,000,000. |
Redsox
Citizen
Username: Redsox
Post Number: 359
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 1:13 pm: |
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the cleaning staff in the schools is comprised mostly of old boy pensioners who get paid $8/hr with no benies- you get what you pay for |
emmie
Citizen
Username: Emmie
Post Number: 155
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 2:29 pm: |
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Redsox...Wrong, the custodial staff at CHS and the entire school district are all paid fairly well because they are NJEA members and indeed get all the bennies. The starting salary for a custodian is $34,191 and the highest salary is $45,065. Too bad some of them do such a crappy job. |
spw784
Citizen
Username: Spw784
Post Number: 397
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 10:57 pm: |
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You tell em, emmie! <g> |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2414
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 10:54 am: |
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The deferred maintenance was a little gimmick used by the Superintendent to have funds for some of his other projects. That having been said, I don't think the pool is in a "practically condemned" condition.
Don't let this turn into a "blame the custodians" situation. For day-to-day maintaining of the schools, they do a good job. They may be an obvious target to blame for physical plant maintenance problems, but they would be the wrong target. |
jem
Citizen
Username: Jem
Post Number: 824
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 11:36 am: |
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Deferred maintenance has been going on for alot longer than the tenure of the current superindendent. We arrived in 1997, and the high school was in slightly worse shape then than it is now - ceilings dingy and water-stained in many of the hallways. At least some of that was remedied over the past 6 years. But I agree, the entrances to the school leave alot to be desired in giving a good first impression. It costs money to maintain and renovate old buildings, and last I heard, everyone's complaining about their taxes at current levels. In allocating limited funds, what's your preference? A sleek, gleaming impressive building or the salaries of teachers and staff? I wish the choice didn't have to be made, but it obviously does. |
anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 837
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 1:49 pm: |
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There are three Columbia freshmen in my house right now. So I asked them. All three said the building was in fine condition and clean. Two had no complaints about cleanliness. One said the building was mostly clean but there are a few areas that are not completely clean. Only one was familiar with the pool and he said it was clean and in good condition physically. His only complaint was that a lot of kids use various types of hair lotion that sometimes mucks up the water, but not to a very great extent. He said the water is usually very clean.
But hey, they're just kids, what do they know! |
jem
Citizen
Username: Jem
Post Number: 825
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 3:45 pm: |
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I don't think I made myself clear enough in my last post. I don't see the problem of the impression that the high school makes as one of lack of cleanliness. It's more a problem of dowdiness and lack of aesthetic organization - things like trophy cases, signage, artwork, furniture (that desk for the security guard at the entrance is such a sad, ugly piece of drek) as one enters at the front door or the gym. I know of at least three hard-working organizations that have been discussing how to improve these things for at least the past few years (CHS HSA, Cougar Boosters and the Education Foundation) and nothing has changed. |
Redsox
Citizen
Username: Redsox
Post Number: 363
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 8:46 am: |
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emmie,
i was told that the guys who come in @ night & empty the baskets & clean the classrooms are part timers. is that untrue as you say? |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1632
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 9:03 am: |
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jem (and others)- there is actually a beautification comittee. There has been extensive landscaping done at the gym entrance - all volunteer. It's a huge improvement. There is also an indoor beautification committtee. I know the trophy cases have been discussed. It would be nice if it became this year's project. |
hch
Citizen
Username: Hch
Post Number: 46
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 9:32 am: |
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The pool itself is okay. The problem is the locker rooms. Peeling paint, rusted broken lockers, grit on the floor, broken lights, etc.
The locker rooms should be condemned. |
jem
Citizen
Username: Jem
Post Number: 827
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 9:42 am: |
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ffof, there's been a beautification committee (and correct me if I'm wrong in my assumption that that's part of the HSA effort that I mentioned) since the time of Chris Robbins. The outdoor plantings have been lovely and well-maintained, but it's the indoor stuff that drags on and on. Those trophy cases have been "discussed" for at least 6 years, probably longer. I had the sense that Chris Robbins put the brakes on some of the proposals. I hope that Renee Pollack moves it along better. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1633
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 11:03 am: |
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me too. |
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1103
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 11:29 am: |
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When the topic is maintenance, there may be a tendency to look at the percentage spent and find it inadequate. When the topic is salaries and number of job lines, there may be a tendency to look at the percentage spent and find it inadequate. Is 10% spent on facilities too low? I have no idea! What is a proper facilities/salary ratio?
Tom Reingold
There is nothing
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kathy
Citizen
Username: Kathy
Post Number: 662
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 12:48 pm: |
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We discussed CHS beautification at our recent HSA meeting. Outdoor beautification moves ahead because parents are allowed to come and plant, weed, etc. Indoor is trickier. There is a parent committee but some plans have been put on hold waiting for the construction that the district is doing at CHS--that is supposed to include some cosmetic improvements. Some parents tried to do some painting last spring but apparently had to desist due to union regulations. |
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1136
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 1:07 pm: |
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Wait a minute. Are you saying that the union said no because it undercuts their living? Are the union folks fully engaged in work from morning to quitting time? If there's no money to hire more workers AND there are volunteers, this is an inexcusable shame.
I'm generally pro-union, but this sort of nonsense gives unions a bad name.
Tom Reingold
There is nothing
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Diversity Man
Citizen
Username: Deadwhitemale
Post Number: 509
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 1:34 pm: |
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Imagine the parents going ahead anyway.
Would the union call in the police?
I look forward to that day, and the board's reaction.
In fact, any reaction to anything at all would be an improvement.
With one exception.
Latz and Horo panning academic achievement awards on November 3, 2003.
DWM |
HarDen
Citizen
Username: Harden
Post Number: 9
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 1:38 pm: |
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Yes there is a beautification committee at CHS, both indoor and outdoor. Actually, At the HSA meeting on Tuesday, I presented what kathy posted. It is a whole lot easier to put in plants and a tree than it is to paint the entranceway or re-work lighting.
Everything is always being talked about, and still is being talked about. Everything meaning the entrance vestibule, the trophy cases, the gym entrance, the lighting, Ritzer field, and so on and so on.
Years of neglect are showing big time. There is a ten year plan that requires a bond. I won’t go there. However, there are small things that can be done now. A committee is currently in the process of identifying these items and then will pursue the most efficient way to accomplish it.
Outdoor has been a 3 year process. Cougar Booster Club and the Maplewood Garden club have been very helpful.
It’s just a matter of money and volunteers! LOL
I'm passing around the list.
And Tom..there is also the liability issue.
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nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1035
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 5:31 pm: |
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Evidently, poor school infrastructure is a nation-wide problem:
I cut and pasted this from here (where you can see correct formatting):
http://www.susanohanian.org/outrage_fetch.php?id=55
The Nation's Infrastructure in Terrible Shape--And Schools Rate Worst of All
The American Society of Civil Engineers has issued an update on their 2001 report on the nation's infrastructure (discussed in What Happened to Recess and Why Are Our Children Struggling in Kindergarten?).
The nation's entire infrastructure is in terrible shape, and school buildings are worst of all--in worse shape than roads, bridges, wastewater facilities, dams, and so on.
You can go to the ASCE website below for information on the infrastructure in your state.
2003 Progress Report
2001 Grade (2003 trends are in parentheses)
Roads D+ (minus)
Bridges C (flat)
Transit C- (minus)
Aviation D (flat)
Schools D- (flat)
Drinking Water D (minus)
Wastewater D (minus)
Dams D (minus)
Solid Waste C+ (flat)
Hazardous Waste D+ (minus)
Navigable Waterways D+ (minus)
Energy D+ (minus)
Bottom Line - All Categories 2001 GPA Total Investment Needs:
$1.6 Trillion D+
Read the report at:
http://www.asce.org
— American Society of Civil Engineers
America\'s Infrastructure, 2003 Progress Report
2003-09-04
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extuscan
Citizen
Username: Extuscan
Post Number: 231
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 7:04 am: |
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Yeah but these are Maplewood's schools, and paid for at Maplewood tax rates. There is no excuse for Maplewood to be merely part of a nationwide average of "dumpy schools" when the taxes that pay for them suggest the taj.
John |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2471
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 10:59 pm: |
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Well, John, as a former resident you know that our tax problem is only partly rooted in spending. Our communities are mostly residential, with less commercial ratables than can be found in other towns. So, the real measure of spending is not the tax burden, but the per-pupil amount, which is not out-of-line with other districts.
That having been said, it's always appropriate to look at what's in the budget, to determine whether our dollars are being used in the best possible manner. |
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