| Author |
Message |
    
mfpark
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 55
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 10:41 pm: | 
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There was an article in the Star Ledger today about how the State is going to encourage local municipalities to share more services. Since many people on MOL seem to know a lot more about this than I, can someone please explain to me how this could come about, would it really save taxes, and what would be the downsides?
I mean, I already see how the school system works when Maplewood and South Orange share, but are they talking about even larger consolidated districts (adding in Livingston or Millburn or West Orange)? Would it be possible to merge SO and M fire and police departments (forgetting for a minute the very different cultures)? Would we call it the S & M Police Department?
Inquiring and overtaxed minds want to know! |
Rebecca Raines
Citizen
Username: Robin_realist
Post Number: 53
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 11:44 pm: |
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I got the impression that they might make the decisions for us in reference to the school districts. Irvington is the closest Essex Co school that of course would appreciate our merging, think of the possibilities for their students. I don't think making the school districts larger will come about easily, which ever way you go. Millburn probably wouldn't want to take us in, they have a rather prejudiced view of our town.
I think a merge of the SO and M police and fire departments sounds good. Maybe we should build a new police station on the border in between, so many more possibilities for a location. R |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1920
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 6:31 am: |
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I can see the benefits, but it must be tough to merge two police departments without merging the towns completely. The cops have to know two sets of laws and you'd have to create another monstrosity like the BOSE to oversee them.
I haven't done a study but I bet that merging fire departments would yield only marginal savings. We already share fire services extensively between towns, and with other towns, in that we cover for each other. I think the rescue squads do this as well. So the only savings would be in terms of overhead, and it's not like anyone will be happy with shutting down a station. |
Jerseyfabulous
Citizen
Username: Jerseyfabulous
Post Number: 23
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 7:18 am: |
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Maplewood should ditch South Orange and merge with Milburn. South Orange and Irvington can merge. |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1921
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 7:25 am: |
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South Orange and Irvington aren't even contiguous. Perhaps they should merge with Elizabeth while they're at it? |
vermontgolfer
Citizen
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 225
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 7:26 am: |
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As if Millburn would want you! |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3893
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 7:48 am: |
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Actually merging with Irvington would probably qualify the new district for Abbott funding, which offers some interesting possibilities.
and no I am not advocating this, just speculating. |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1922
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 8:10 am: |
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Like the possibility of plummeting real estate values? |
mikecappy
Citizen
Username: Mikecappy
Post Number: 49
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 9:12 am: |
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How come it is always people from South Orange clinging onto Maplewood's services? Look at all of you on MAPLEWOOD ONLINE! Get your own stuff or link up with a more similar town like Irvington. |
Soda
Citizen
Username: Soda
Post Number: 1089
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 10:20 am: |
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Just for the record, Mikecappy, Dave Ross lives in South Orange, so maybe he shoulda named this site differently...
And just which are the Maplewood services to which South Orange "clings"?
*Are you referring to out shared school system? Seems to me, most S.O. residents are probably less than delighted to be constantly dragged by association into the much-publicized wrangles about the many iniquities of Tuscan, Boyden, and CHS (all in Mplwd).
*Do you mean JAC's 2-town animal shelter (In S.O.), a project spearheaded by the good Dr. Levine (who practices in S.O.), which will offer its services to residents of BOTH towns?
Offhand, I can't think of any other services now officially shared by South Orange & Maplewood. Doesn't sound like so much to "cling" to, does it?
--Soda |
mikecappy
Citizen
Username: Mikecappy
Post Number: 50
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 10:50 am: |
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Just for the record, Mikecappy, Dave Ross lives in South Orange, so maybe he shoulda named this site differently...
Exactly, A South Orange resident clinging onto Maplewood's good name. You want smart people to contribute, don't you? |
NCJanow(akaLibraryLady)
Citizen
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 1092
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 10:53 am: |
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Once again Mr.MCappy, this forum can also be accessed at www.southorangevillage.com/discus.
And those in the know call it SOL.
NCJ aka LibraryLady
On a coffee break..or something like it.
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Earlster
Citizen
Username: Earlster
Post Number: 65
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 11:00 am: |
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Police, Fire and EMS might be difficult to share, but what about public works and waste management?
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mikecappy
Citizen
Username: Mikecappy
Post Number: 51
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 11:33 am: |
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I think Waste Management is something that fits South Orange perfectly. |
Jerseyfabulous
Citizen
Username: Jerseyfabulous
Post Number: 24
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 12:26 pm: |
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Mikecappy. Thats a good one. But you do make a good point that South Ornage drags down Maplewood. Often SO homeowmers play up the two towns bit when selling thier homes because they know Maplewood is more desirable. South Orange town center looks like Spanish harlem. There is a half a block of nice development and a rest are low budget stories generating no tax revenue. |
mfpark
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 56
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 12:39 pm: |
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Nancy:
SOL???? In my books, that stands for something else (saying which might get me banned to Strawberryland). Perhaps you would like to choose a different set of letters?
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JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 105
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 12:42 pm: |
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While this is mildly humourous. I don't get it. NJ is the armpit of the US - and has 2nd highest tax burden. Yet, you would rather talk about which of these little suburban towns is less appealing. NJ is a small state with small counties and small towns. It's not working financially. All of you complain about taxes - shared services is something concrete that would help. I think this is a great topic. Would love to participate in a constructive conversation. |
mikecappy
Citizen
Username: Mikecappy
Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 2:22 pm: |
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I agree. These are my top 10 pet peeves about New Jersey (in no particular order):
1. Jughandles
2. 1970's era Drivers Licenses
3. Most restaurants don't have Liquor Licenses
4. Horrible Street Signage
5. New Jersey Transit
6. You cannot drive out of the state without paying a toll
7. A crappy 529 Plan
8. High Taxes
9. There is a reason the rest of the country thinks we are a toxic waste dump
10. New Jersey Turnpike |
Soda
Citizen
Username: Soda
Post Number: 1090
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 4:21 pm: |
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I wouldn't dream of faulting Dave for his great marketing savvy in using the much larger (in area and population, although not in per capita income) of our two towns for his site moniker, but I really think it's just splitting hairs to put down one versus the other. They're both in New jersey, after all...And, of course, being a NY'er trapped in a Jerseyite's body, and I always have and always will regard NJ as The Garbage State. Seventeen years of residency here haven't changed my mind.
Still, I'm a booster where South Orange is concerned. I like it here. I LIKE not having my trash picked up in front of my house by Waste Mgmt.; I LIKE our gas lamps; I like living in the Little Orange. Don't get me started...
--Soda |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 165
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 4:27 pm: |
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"Would love to participate in a constructive conversation."
Alas, JJC, you're come to the wrong thread for anything constructive. |
JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 111
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 4:30 pm: |
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Maybe the wrong two-towns. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2187
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 5:09 pm: |
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What services can we share?
How about purchasing?
Not just stationary supplies but insurance, motor vehicles, professional services and other large licket items which might be cheaper at a group rate.
Are there functions that municipalities our size routinely outsource because we do not have enough volume demand to support a full-time operation? Would it be more cost effective to enter into an agreement with other municipalities and pay either a predetermined pro-rated share or on an as used basis?
There might be farther reaching benefits than just a savings in our tax dollars to joining in regional planning efforts and cooperating regionally on the setting of policies and provision of some services. |
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1156
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 5:15 pm: |
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How about entire departments? The school district is already shared. I notice the Maplewood Recreation department does lots of good things. Maybe we should join the SO department. But you know, greater efficiency means eliminating jobs. Is everyone happy about that?
Tom Reingold
There is nothing
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JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 114
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 5:24 pm: |
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Yes - it means eliminating jobs. Are you happy about your tax bill? Things cannot continue to be this way. The money saved will not evaporate - it will be spent on something else - creating an opportunity there. |
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1160
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 5:32 pm: |
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Oh, I'm OK with eliminating jobs, too, I just want everyone to be aware of that, in case it isn't already obvious. But of course, volume buying is a great thing, if we can manage it.
I'm beginning to wonder if property taxes tend to rise because municipalities and counties are at the bottom of the food chain, so to speak. We can continue to get more and more efficient, but the squeeze may be on forever unless something changes fundamentally. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be efficient.
Tom Reingold
There is nothing
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Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2190
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 5:37 pm: |
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Tom:
We already share a lot of recreational activities with South Orange. The children's t-ball, soft ball, and soccer programs is perhaps the best known.
I agree that this is one area we could look into. However, does anyone know how many of these programs are funded primarily by private donations and volunteer organizations such as Arts Maplewood and how many receive most of their funding through tax levy? |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1924
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 10:21 pm: |
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Joan,
I think a lot of purchasing is already done through a pool of some sort, possibly through the county. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2196
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 12:02 pm: |
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Larry:
I would certainly hope so. What I don't know is how many other jurisdictions participate in the pool or how extensive the list of types of items purchased has become. This seems to be an area in which there is always room for improvement.
I also wonder if the Federal Surplus program is still available to municipal purcahsing agents and whether Maplewood has looked into some of the items regularly available through this mechanism.
Have you heard the recent radio advertisements which cite how many items are bought and services used by small businesses? The total numbers are staggering. Think of the bulk purchase price advantages if all of the municipalities in New Jersey were to band together and let procurement contracts for items and services they use in common. |
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