| Author |
Message |
    
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2193
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 11:02 am: | 
|
If the problems with the MPD are largely institutional in nature then we need to re-examine the institution of the MPD. What are the internal policies and procedures which have created this mess?
I am still leaning towards the conclusion that the most significant problem here is a lack of communication between the rank and file officers, MPD leadership, paid township administration and the TC. Who else among those who have been following this issue believes that much could be resolved with some good old fashioned sensitivity training?
Sbenois:
Thank you for explaining how you reached the conclusion that Callahan was an MPD officer. To me the word "comrades" means friends who are working together towards a common goal.
Wouldn't you agree that it behooves all of us to work towards the common goal of improving conditions within the MPD? |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2194
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 11:28 am: |
|
Callahan:
Thank you for explaining what a step salary plan is and confirming that the MPD uses this standard practice in paying its officers. This was the logical conclusion to draw when officers claimed that they had lost money when leaving the MPD to start new at other law enforcement agencies in the region.
Could you tell us if Maplewood's salary for entry-level police officers is lower than that of most other law enforcement agencies in the region for entry level salaries only or if the rate remains lower throughout the salary scale? |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2195
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 11:51 am: |
|
Callahan:
Thank you for clarifying what you meant by 40% - 50% turnover rate. I think most posters reading that part of your message interpreted it as 40% - 50% of the officers leaving every year. Now that we understand the time frame, your post makes much more sense. Of course, even this somewhat reduced figure is too high.
I beg to differ with you on the cost of recruiting and training new officers. The actual figure is much larger than you suppose.
First of all bear in mind that Maplewood residents pay municipal, county, and state taxes. Therefore, the per officer costs for developing and administering civil service examinations, screening and hiring candidates, and sending them through the training academy are still payed by this town's tax payers, even if a large portion of the cost is spread over the entire county and/or state. Perhaps someone who has these cost figures can make them available.
Clearly, the cost of training each new officer is paid by the town. New officers fresh from the training academy usually require some time with a more experienced officer before they can work independently. This is time taken away from the training officer's regular duties. Thus the level of police service the town can provide during the time the new officer is in the training academy and during the time the officer is being trained both have to be considered in terms of overtime.
Whether or not you consider the cost of overtime to be minimal, it can add up in increased wages which could make MPD salaries higher than those of surrounding communities which offer less overtime opportunity. But, too much overtime can lead to fatigue, stress and too much time away from their families which in turn can lead to officers wanting to leave for a job requiring less overtime. Thus the overtime problem could be part of what is perpetuating the high turnover cycle.
More experienced officers earn their higher salaries by being able to perform their duties more effectively and efficiently (that is at least the theory behind step salary plans). Thus it takes more than one officer to replace the effectiveness of an officer who leaves. When the head count remains stable, the number of overtime hours needed to maintain a stable level of police service can increase yet again.
Finally, consider that the replacement costs are even higher when an officer with a specialized assignment leaves, especially if there has been no back up training provided. The specialized officer will likely have to be replaced by another experienced officer who in turn will have to be replaced by a rookie. Now we have the lost time and added expense of replacing two or more officers for every officer who leaves.
|
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 2208
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 1:51 pm: |
|
Callahan:
“The cops that are posting on MOL are doing it to get ACTION from the public, not a simple reaction such as sympathy.”
I agree with that statement... and enough of all this on-line chatter already. OK, now lets find out who really supports our police officers!
If the 500 members of “Friend’s of the Library” are willing to support our library’s in town, I want to see if we can get equal or superior support for our police officers! Some of us need to do what ever it takes to stop the drain of good men and women from the police department.
Therefore, as I previously suggested, it’s time to step up and be counted...
The first organizational meeting of the “Friends of Police Officers” (FOPO) will be held at my home, 304 Elmwood Avenue, on Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 7:30PM. I would like to set the following simple plan subject to change by the attendees at the meeting.
First, membership is open to all residents of Maplewood. There will be no political posturing, no district structuring, no officers, no dues, and no requirement to attend any meetings. Members need only apply in writing or by e-mail requesting membership, and may also remove their name from membership at any time the same way.
Members will receive a window sticker and a membership card that will indicate their support for our police officers and the organization. A thread will be started to keep everyone informed as to the results of all future meetings. Comments will always be welcome from all residents regardless of whether they have membership or not.
(but please try to limit words to under 1,000 Joan, and also the usual post drift as best as possible)
We know that our police officers sign on to serve us all, at all costs. Therefore, the purpose of the organization will not be to influence, not to direct, not to criticize, not to negotiate for, but only to listen to and support them in everyway we can. They already have all the leadership, unions, and organizations they need. As the song says, lets all "Stand by your man... or woman!"
I feel besides listening and trying to understand their's and their families problems, we can also show our respect and support by fund raising for equipment and services the town is unable to provide them because of the towns present fiscal restraints.
I hope to see the attendees at the meeting appoint a seven-person steering committee, with additional sub-committee’s as deemed necessary. I would also like to invite Tim Durkin to attend this first meeting, and further encourage any additional suggestions anyone feels would be helpful.
Finally, an e-mail or phone call would be helpful if you plan on attending so I can provide adequate refreshments, or change the venue if attendees appear to be exceeding 100...
Thank you. Art |
Boozy the Clown
Citizen
Username: Boozy
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 8:20 pm: |
|
Callahan:
"...and let's not get into the quantity and quality of officers they're attracting these days."
So what's the problem with MPDs new officers, are they inferior to the other recruits in the academy? What about the recent graduates? Is MPD putting the community at risk hiring these "undesirable" policemen?
Tell us more about the quality of officer the MPD is hiring. |
Copihue
Citizen
Username: Cop
Post Number: 143
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 8:08 am: |
|
Boozy, a new recruit is a blank slate. What the officers are saying is that the organization is creating the problem. Even if the organization is consistently picking the bottom of the barrel in recruits, it is the organization's responsibility for consistently making that choice.
Why are we attacking the police officers? they are trying to discuss the problems that they see. What is wrong with that? Their arguments are contradictory at times, so what? They are police officers upset by their working environment, and they are trying to express to us their frustrations. They are not writers or policy makers. The most telling fact to me is the retention rate. Officers are leaving, and that is not good for residents because the costs of training are high and the cost of inexperience is also high.
The officers became involved in the political process, and that is a double edged sword. Does anyone know if the police officers' union in New York City, for example, endorses political candidates for mayor? what about the firemen? I believe this was a mistake, probably a consequence of their inexperience. The Republican candidates made reference to the fact that police officers are not allowed to endorse political candidates. Could we have clarification on that point? I may be misquoting the candidates.
We have a problem with crime in this town, and the organization in charge of addressing this issue is in turmoil. Why are we not making those accountable for this situation respond to the problems? The police officers complain, and the police chief, the town administrator and the Township Committee are silent on the issue. That's the problem in my eyes. They are the ones in charge of this organization. They should go to the papers, come online with us to discuss the problems, organize a meeting or find some other forum to address these issues. The fact that there is no response from any of them does not help, it makes them look unresponsive and uncaring to me and perhaps to the police officers too.
Pack your own chute.
|
Duncan
Citizen
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 1181
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 8:37 am: |
|
Copihue...despite assertions to the contrary MOL is not going to be the forum through which these sorts of issues are resolved. It is simply too marginal. While in the future, perhaps, this might be a realistic venue for policy discussions..right now, the percentage of Maplewood's population that is registered and either posts or lurks here is probably less than the percentage of cops who post here to the size of the whole force. The place for this kind of change to get support is on the street. Or at Arts house on 12/3. With all due respect and gratitude to Dave and Jamie, MOL is not yet a forum for real immediate change. I think that is still going to happen at the tuesday night all star meetings.
I will say that this is a good place for people like me to hear about the problems of the force. Make no mistake, I understand and believe that there are problems to be addressed. But I am just too cynical not to allow for the possibility that "TheLight" "FormerMPD" et al are not really cops. Its just way to easy to create an alternative personality online.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"
Wayne Gretzky
|
Copihue
Citizen
Username: Cop
Post Number: 144
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 8:58 am: |
|
I agree that Art's initiative is a good one. I am completely puzzled about why Marie opposes it, specially given that they are both Republicans. But if her action is any indication of what might happen to the organization Art is trying to form, then it behooves the group to garner support from all the factions involved: the Chief, Vic/Jerry supporters, Profetistas and police officers and residents. If not, the organization may be viewed as the political arm of one group over the other. Irrespective of that fact, I have another commitment that I am not able to reschedule on that night, so I won't be there. If someone would let me know what's accomplished, I would be very grateful.
In other words, I agree with your observations, about MOL, Duncan. It cannot be the engine for action, meetings such as the one Art has organized, where real bodies show up, is the right venue. MOL has its place. It is an annonymous environment where people can express their thoughts without too much consequence in the real world. It's the brainstorming world where sometimes ideas are nutty, so what? I don't need to tell you that creative answers originate in a world where there is no judgment. Once we have the ideas, we can sort them out later.
Pack your own chute.
|
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2205
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 10:44 am: |
|
Copihue:
At this point in time, Art's committee has about the same standing in the community as the contributers to this thread. It may even be comprised of many of the same people.
Both approaches will serve the purpose of making people more aware of the problems facing the Police Department and together the two efforts may add pressure to those in a position to enact change to take some positve action. but that is the extent of it.
If you want to be a part of bringing about real change:
1. Lobby the TC directly, make your position known in person to the police Chief or the Town Administrator (assuming they will listen to you).
2. Do some reasearch first so that you have a clear understanding of the issues and their ramifications. For example: high police turnover is occuring and this is not a good thing for the town. Understanding what is causing the high turnover will help you to discuss this problem more effectively with those who are in a position to bring about change.
3. Be prepared to offer solutions not just rehash problems. For example: once you know there is high police turnover, that it's bad, and why it is happening; you need to have some reasonable suggestion as to how the problem can be corrected.
4. It would be nice if your presentation could be convincing enough to get conditions changed but lots of individual presentations highlighting lots of problems (turnover is not really a problem so much as a symptom) are going to be needed if the citizens of Maplewood are going to be instrumental in improving police department operations.
|
Copihue
Citizen
Username: Cop
Post Number: 145
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 12:06 pm: |
|
I thought citizens are supposed to let our representatives know what we perceive are serious problems in our community, and that elected officials are supposed to find the answers. Why do I have to present a cohesive point of view to the TC? I have not heard the Chief's point of view, as has been pointed out, and I am not going to go about making an appointment with him. I don't know what the right answer is, because I have no expertise in Police matters, I can't present solutions. The Police Dept does not report to me.
I am a resident who thinks we have a serious problem with the Police Dept., and I am very concerned about it, because I am completely dependent on them for my safety. I also pay taxes to provide me safety, and I don't think that the individuals who have been hired to take on this responsibilities are doing a good job of it. Individuals have been elected to take on these jobs, and nobody seems to be addressing them.
Arts idea of getting people together is a good idea, because it brings people out of the virtual world into the real world. The group is not there to create solutions, but to organize to let elected officials know that we are concerned about these issues and to support the Police Dept.. I am concerned about the high turnover, and I want to do something. Art's group may start with a MOL group, but it doesn't have to stay like that, if it does, it is bound to fail. If everyone brings one other individual from the community without an agenda, a set of solutions, an ax to grind, but a concern for the problem and a willingness to find answers -- whatever they may be --, then it could succeed. If that group reaches out to all stakeholders, then it may create the momentum to find answers.
Pack your own chute.
|
Callahan
Citizen
Username: Callahan
Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 10:39 am: |
|
Dear Joan,
First of all, thank you for your efforts to help explain these very complex issues.
I need to reiterate just how much money is saved by the Township as a result of the turnover of Officers. I understand your contention that we pay County and State taxes that absorb the costs of training new officers in some way, however those taxes will exist with or without Maplewood's turnover rate. There is no direct relationship between how much we pay and how many cops are leaving Maplewood.
The cost of sending a new guy to the Police Academy costs pennies compared to the amount "saved" by dumping a veteran Officer's salary. I'll break it down with a typical example:
Officer "Joe" has 15 years of experience with MPD. After fighting a losing battle for years, he gives up and leaves to go to another department (more than likely taking a huge paycut, uprooting his family, leaving his friends, and leaving a job and community he wants to love).
Officer Joe cost Maplewood about $100,000 per year including his salary, longevity pay, pension contributions by the Town (8.5 %) and medical coverage for he and his wife and (2) children.
Officer Joe quits on January 1st. Traditionally, there will be no one ready to take his place (by design). Officer Joe's spot in the roster will remain unfilled while a test is announced, advertised for about one day, and applications are received. Anyone interseted in taking the test will have to pay $50.00 in advance just to apply. These ridiculous application fees defer the costs of actually giving the test.
Then after many months (remember, Officer Joe's spot is still empty), a test is given by the MPD. NO OUTSIDE AGENCY proctors any portion of the test. It is run by Maplewood Police Officers at Columbia HS, who are usually compensated with time off (comp time). They don't have a Civil Service exam- if they did none of the problems would ever have developed.
Scores are compiled and background checks begin. Guess who conducts the background checks? Yep, MPD Supervisors in their "spare time". MPD even tried using patrolman to do the job for a couple of years to save even more money.
Then the police candidate that is chosen by the extremely subjective interview process is sent for medical and psychological screening. Yes, this costs the Town hundreds of bucks- but they only send the candidate that is conditionally hired to the docs.
Then the candidate waits for an academy opening. This could be several months. More than likely, an entire year has passed, with no replacement for Joe. The result. His $100,000 cost to the town, minus a few bucks here and there, is virtually unspent.
It continues: Candidate goes to the Academy, which I believe only costs in-county agencies about $1500.00. Call to check on this one, I'm not sure. The department buys the recruit equipment at about $1500 cost. The recruit then makes about $9500 while in class for about six months, and will then earn something like $17,000 plus benefits over the next six while on duty. Total cost for year two: A very liberal figure is $40,000.
So year one was almost a $100,000 savings for losing one veteran cop. Now year two equates to about $60,000 in the black. The new officer will NEVER catch up to Joe's salary and costs to the Town because of the step system that's in place. So every year from then on, additional tens of thousands are saved.
NOW, with so many officers leaving every year, the cycle continues. Imagine the savings over the course of time! It has already accumulated into millions of dollars and will add up to millions more on a rolling basis.
This is why the turnover rate continues, and why the Township and Police Administration will do nothing to stop it.
Millions of dollars are at stake! |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 2213
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 12:47 pm: |
|
Callahan,
“This is why the turnover rate continues, and why the Township and Police Administration will do nothing to stop it. Millions of dollars are at stake!”
Would you be willing to respond to two questions I have regarding your comment.
Q. Are you really saying as a means of saving money, both the township and police administration have no interest in ever stabilizing the towns police force?
Q. If millions of dollars were at stake by dumping police officers after a few years of service, wouldn't every town be trying to do the same thing? |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2212
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 5:04 pm: |
|
Callahan:
How many hours of overtime does the typical MPD officer work in a year? What is the total MPD overtime cost to the Town in a given year?
The one problem that I have with your scenario is that if the town could go for 18 months without replacing Officer Joe, there is really no incentive for replacing him at all. More likely other officers are filling in for Officer Joe so that all the necessary work can get done.
This overtime cost has to be factored into your example. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2213
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 5:08 pm: |
|
Copihue:
That is precisely my point. It is the job of our elected and hired officials to solve the problems we are having within the MPD.
By now, the TC members, Town Administrator, Police Chief and Maplewood police officers must all be aware that the MPD could use a little improvement. They really don't need us to tell them that. |
Callahan
Citizen
Username: Callahan
Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 11:26 am: |
|
Dear AJC and JOAN,
I can clearly see how genuinely interested and knowlegeable you both are, and I thank you both.
Your follow-up questions are well formulated and deserve to be answered.
First, ajc asked:
Q. "Are you really saying as a means of saving money, both the township and police administration have no interest in ever stabilizing the towns police force?"
A. First, it is important to recognize that the turnover scenario has existed throughout numerous Township Council lineups and Police Administrations, therefore we could never blame any incumbent group or person for having implemented such a strategy, if one was ever intentionally implemented at all. COULD IT HAVE BEEN A COST/ BENEFIT PLAN DEVELOPED MANY YEARS AGO, AND STILL CARRIED OUT TODAY? Possibly. But the most likely scenario is that all of the Town Council lineups (Republican and Democrat alike) throughout the years have recognized the extreme monetary savings that result from high turnover, and have simply allowed it to continue (even get worse) by taking no action to reverse it. This part is irrefutable. For years, the PBA has been giving the Police Administration and TC due notice. There has been zero effort to address the problem, and the only logical conclusion is that IT's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. So far, there hasn't been any serious consequences. I guess from a business point of view, millions of dollars have been banked, crime has not skyrocketed, and few Officers and Citizens have been physically harmed as a result. It sounds like a sound formula, except that the men and women of the MPD are being subjected to the neglect and the hardships required to make the plan work. And that we citizens are getting a poorly equipped, inexperienced and broken-hearted police force. As if the fair treatment of the men and women who protect and serve us every day isn't enough motivation to reverse the turnover rate, I am also truely concerned that public safety IS and will continue to be comprimised as a result.
Q. If millions of dollars were at stake by dumping police officers after a few years of service, wouldn't every town be trying to do the same thing?
A. Phenomenal question! NO, because some teams are committed to professionalism. The tactic of "salary dumping" is frequently applied in the world of professional sports. The San Diego Padres are a perfect example from recent history. A few years ago, the club was a winning team, with proven, experienced players. Ownership then decided to "turnover" the team in order to greatly reduce the salary budget. The sports world was irate, and the fan base of the team gave up. The players that did stay on were absolutely miserable. They knew that they didn't have the support of the management or the fans, and they were forced to try to make things work with a majority of inexperienced rookies.
Never-the-less, the Padres were the laughing stock of baseball until ownership decided to reverse its philosophy years later, and reinstitute a winning gameplan.
This is probably the main reason that few Towns opt for the "Turnover Train".
Now for Joan's questions:
"How many hours of overtime does the typical MPD officer work in a year? What is the total MPD overtime cost to the Town in a given year?"
A. I believe that this is public information and we can find out rather easily. I can guarantee you this: The money saved by the reinvested salary and other expenditures from only a few officers per year will more than cover the costs to the overtime budget. When 8 or 10 men per year are leaving, most of it is gravy indeed. Please let me know what you find out- and be wary of the "spin" and "fuzzy math" that officals may try to sell you.
Q. The one problem that I have with your scenario is that if the town could go for 18 months without replacing Officer Joe, there is really no incentive for replacing him at all. More likely other officers are filling in for Officer Joe so that all the necessary work can get done.
A. BINGO! The police department is perpetually down several officers in manpower. They basically keep to the bare minimum employees to make the department work. By the time new officers come on, several more have quit. MPD is almost never operating near the 60 (more with the school officers) man authorization.
Worse yet, as you know, there have been no promotions in more than three years. Again, there is no motivation for the Township to promote anyone (increasing their salaries) when the job "appears" to be getting done without the promotions.
I guess its all about the money.
|
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 2215
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 12:04 pm: |
|
Thanks for staying in the conversation Callahan...
I guess we could continue to debate your answers, but without clear and open input from the people in power, we'll just be spinning our wheels again.
The "Ugly Truth" is, it's really not that hard to make a case for your position. And, unless anyone in authority steps up to disprove your theory, it would only make sense that it's a logical conclusion to arrive at, especially given the present state of affairs with all of our police officers continued departures from the department.
My thinking, now more than ever, is the police can use some real friends... Therefore, I'm really looking forward to Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 7:30PM, when we’ll have the first meeting of the FOPO...
|
Callahan
Citizen
Username: Callahan
Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 9:08 am: |
|
Thank you ajc. You hit the nail on the head.
I will get the word out about Dec. 3rd.
Thanks again,
Callahan |
Copihue
Citizen
Username: Cop
Post Number: 154
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 3, 2003 - 10:51 am: |
|
I can't get to the meeting tonight until 9:20 or so tonight. I'll call using my VERIZON CELL PHONE to find out if you guys are still going at that time.
We love you, Verizon
Pack your own chute.
|
Boozy the Clown
Citizen
Username: Boozy
Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 7, 2003 - 8:14 pm: |
|
All is quiet on the contract front, did the cops get the raise they were looking for? All this hoopla has ended just as fast as it started, it must not be as bad as they were saying. |
officerfriendly
Citizen
Username: Officerfriendly
Post Number: 15
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 7, 2003 - 8:42 pm: |
|
It's been quiet because NOTHING HAS HAPPENED AT ALL!
No contract meetings, no new schedule, no discussions with the TC, etc.
BUT WAIT, something has happened....
2 more officers are leaving.
officer friendly |
Boozy the Clown
Citizen
Username: Boozy
Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 9:06 pm: |
|
is there a meeting scheduled before the end of the year or will all matters be dealt with next year? what are the top three points the pba is fighting for? |
Boozy the Clown
Citizen
Username: Boozy
Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 11:18 pm: |
|
Why won't the police accept the TC contract terms? Aren't they just being childish with all their demands? |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4059
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 5:16 am: |
|
I imagine that the contract talks are awaiting the changes on the TC as of January 1. |
thelight
Citizen
Username: Thelight
Post Number: 120
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 8:35 pm: |
|
Well,
It seems that the T/C, after cancelling three previous meetings with our local PBA, came to last weeks' meeting and basically withdrew their previous contract offer to us! Here we go again! the Township has now forced all parties involved into arbitration. I've said it before, and I will say it again, Michelle Meade is without a doubt, the worst, most self-centered, selfish, untrustworthy person to ever have held the position of Township Business Administrator. I guess she must be all worn out from juggling the Township's ledgers. I say lets call for an outside audit of the Township's finances. I am certain they would uncover many instances of improper and illegal activity. Meade cries poverty when an employee wants their salary to keep up with the cost of living, but when Meade needs equipment or assistants, believe you me, she finds the money then!
Thank You,
The Light. |
anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 873
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 8:42 pm: |
|
That last post is definitely libelous. |
Chris Dickson
Citizen
Username: Ironman
Post Number: 914
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 8:43 pm: |
|
Gee, you think?
"I am certain they would uncover many instances of improper and illegal activity ..."
Damn skippy.
Big Train
Horn-infused funkification!
www.bigtraintracks.com
|
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 749
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 8:44 pm: |
|
but remember: truth is an absolute defense. |
thelight
Citizen
Username: Thelight
Post Number: 121
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 8:51 pm: |
|
Well,
It seems that the T/C, after cancelling three previous meetings with our local PBA, came to last weeks' meeting and basically withdrew their previous contract offer to us! Here we go again! the Township has now forced all parties involved into arbitration. I've said it before, and I will say it again, Michelle Meade is without a doubt, the worst, most self-centered, selfish, untrustworthy person to ever have held the position of Township Business Administrator. I guess she must be all worn out from juggling the Township's ledgers. I say lets call for an outside audit of the Township's finances. I am certain they would uncover many instances of improper and illegal activity. Meade cries poverty when an employee wants their salary to keep up with the cost of living, but when Meade needs equipment or assistants, believe you me, she finds the money then!
Thank You,
The Light. |
Chris Dickson
Citizen
Username: Ironman
Post Number: 915
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 8:52 pm: |
|
Yeah, you said that ...
Big Train
Horn-infused funkification!
www.bigtraintracks.com
|
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2296
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 4:51 pm: |
|
The Light:
Personal attacks against management won't help move the talks along.
You mentioned the possibility of "being forced into" arbitration. Why are you opposed to going that route? |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 192
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 9:35 pm: |
|
Not sure I agree that these are personal attacks, but are strong opinions caused by direct involvement over a period over time. If this is the Light's opinion it is the result of the perception caused by the Township administrator, her promises/commitments and actions or lack thereof. Joan you work in a NYC municipal agency, and I gotta believe you know something ain't right in township administration. Maybe we need a leader like Rudy to resolve this, or maybe bloomie.
Better yet the reorg and Fred's crew take command on January 1st. In less than two weeks! The two new members had the formal support of the PBA and we will soon see if the new leadership can resolve this serious issue. Fred, as mayor, will have a 4 to majority on almost all issues. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5957
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 11:23 pm: |
|
quote: I am certain they would uncover many instances of improper and illegal activity.
I just read through this and this above from "thelight" is the height of personal attacks and earns thelight a spot in the penalty box for a week. |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 62
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 12:17 am: |
|
Does anybody here know what the contract demands of the MPD PBA are?
Does anybody know what the contract offer from the Township is?
I've seen a lot of speculation, but not hard information. If I missed the parties' positions in the previous pages, I apoligize and would appreciate a date reference to check the posting.
TomR.
PS: Dave, wouldn't a warning to thelight have been more appropriate than a week in the penalty box.
cc: thelight |
Copihue
Citizen
Username: Cop
Post Number: 186
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 6:13 am: |
|
The personal attack was inappropriate, and I am glad that thelight is in the penalty box. He/she earned it. If there is substance to the charge that the town administrator is conducting business illegally, then he/she should have arrested her instead of attacking her in this bulletin board.
The police officers have been getting slack because of the high attrition rate and the no-confidence vote which yielded no results, but if they behave irresponsibly, they will loose their credibility.
Pack your own chute.
|
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 193
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 7:48 pm: |
|
Dave's the ref! |
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page