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mem aka "toots"
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2301
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 9:32 am: | 
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I saw the eight proposed designs yesterday and I an very disappointed. All of them were cold, stark, way too modern, using lots of concrete blocks (to sit on!), a few looked like cement caves, and the one that projected ghostly photos onto large glass panels gave me the creeps. Most looked like mausoleums. And posts with names on them - looked like the Arlington cemetary but way worse. I can't imagine looking at a cement post with my friend's name on it, in such cold surroundings, and he wouldn't like it either!
I thought they would do something warmer, greener and more organic, more parklike, with trees and fountains and comfortable benches. What a bummer. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2456
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 9:41 am: |
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I know what you mean. I don't know if the committee gave a lot of thought to the fact that this memorial will be there a long time. If they just build a cave-like underground memorial, what will that be like in 50 years? Some people may still be coming to remember relatives and friends, but those spaces may not draw many other people. The whole purpose of the memorial would be defeated.
Maybe they could make adjustments to some of the designs. You mentioned the one with the concrete posts. I think that was the one which had a reflecting pool with two square "islands", located on the footprints of the towers. If those "islands" were kept green, with the names memorialized in some way other than all those posts, that might be something to consider. It would be outside, open to the sunlight, and would continue to attract visitors long after any of us are gone.
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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1533
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 10:45 am: |
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I think all the ones with projected photos, special lights, etc. are a mistake. There shouldn't need to be any maintenance on this, other than ordinary cleaning, gardening and such. What is it going to look like when screens go blank (or have Microsoft error messages), or lightbulbs for individuals burn out? |
DrFalomar
Citizen
Username: Drfalomar
Post Number: 90
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 10:50 am: |
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they were too ornate, trying to do so many things at once, and the spaces were clogged while also seeming to keep people at a distance. maya lin's vietnam war memorial, while modern, has two things going for it: a stark simplicity that makes the message of the memorial very clear; and it facilitates the movement of people as they visit it and encourages them to interact with the wall (say, by creating rubbings). The WTC designs do neither of these things. |
Yossarian
Citizen
Username: Yossarian
Post Number: 100
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 10:53 am: |
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Before we go to far in criticizing the work of the designers and the selection committee, let's keep this in perspective. Many, many hours of thought have gone into the process. People who lost friends and loved ones were certainly involved and consulted. What's more, I'm certain the memorials will have a different look and feel in person than they do on paper or online.
My company lost hundreds of people on September 11th. We have built a memorial at our Manhattan headquarters to them, and I can tell you, the selection and design process was unlike anything I've ever been involved with. At first, I myself was not crazy about the particular design of our memorial. But on the day it was dedicated, the feeling at the ceremony was overwhelming. Hundreds of family members were there. Many of them were children. It was heart-wrenching and incredibly sad.
In the end, it really doesn't matter what the memorial looks like. It's about creating a space to honor and remember those lost. Glass, water, lights, steel or any other "construction" material won't bring those lost back, but they can give us a place to think about them with others who share our pain and loving memories of the victims. When you are at the memorial, you aren't thinking about what it looks like. You are thinking about what it is there for.
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Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 264
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 10:54 am: |
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Personally, I liked the "Reflections of Absence" sunken reflecting ponds as being the simplest and most meaningful to contemplate. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2460
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 11:09 am: |
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The finalists can be viewed online:
http://www.wtcsitememorial.org/finalists.html
"Reflecting Absence" seems to have too much concrete, reflecting the bare plaza aspect of the old WTC. "Suspending Memory" has the green islands (on the tower footprints) surrounded by water. As I said, I'm not so sure about those pillars. But, those would be inviting spaces for contemplation. |
mem aka "toots"
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2307
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 2:01 pm: |
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Yossarian,
I disagree with it not mattering what the surroundings at the memorial are. If you ever go to a very nice cemetary, it can be very soothing to be in beautiful, peaceful surroundings, especially when in pain of remembrance or while mourning, rather than be somewhere that looks like a futuristic high technology subway station. And parklike settings can last forever, like famous gardens in Europe.
My friend was eventually found, and his remains are in a nice spot, but many familes of victims do not have that luxury and this is the only place for them to go, so it shouldn't be so cold and stark.
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ashear
Citizen
Username: Ashear
Post Number: 804
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 2:22 pm: |
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I have not carefully looked at all of the designs but I do agree that anything high tech, or even low tech with lights or whatever, is a mistake as they will inevitably breakdown and look bad. Something simple like the vietnam memorial is definitely a better idea. |
Yossarian
Citizen
Username: Yossarian
Post Number: 101
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 2:43 pm: |
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mem --
I'm not saying that the surroundings don't matter at all. Maybe it came off that way. What I'm saying is: let's not be so quick to judge. We've seen computer-generated fragments of the memorial. I guarantee you that the site will be warm and respectful of those lost there. It will be a place where those grieving for lost souls will feel welcomed and comforted. Let it play out. It's very early. Early renditions of my firm's memorial differ greatly from the finished product.
If you saw our memorial, you might say it's cold and stark. When you sit in front of it, it connects you to the people lost. And that's the point, IMO.
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Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1158
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 5:21 pm: |
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Cold, stark, and way too modern were what we thought of the WTC when it was going up.
Please believe me when I say I was -- and am -- just as distraught by the loss of life and destruction as everyone else is. But I think sentimentality has led us to retroactively love those buildings.
Tom Reingold
There is nothing
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Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2189
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 5:29 pm: |
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My son, who entered this competition and lost, summed it up best when he said that none of the finalist site designs conveyed the feeling that people had died there. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 1903
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 7:31 pm: |
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Memorials by committee are always difficult. I doubt that the World War II memorial currently under construction will have the power of the various American military cemeteries around the world or the Arizona memorial in Pearl Harbor or the Pacific War Memorial on Corregidor.
The Vietnam Memorial, OTOH, was the inspiration of a single artist and has proven to be a memorial where veterans of that war can go to remember or grieve.
Which will the WTC memorial be? A memorial by committee or a special place for those directly affected? |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 266
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 9:41 pm: |
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A memorial, for the simple reason that it will outlive everyone who was directly affected. |
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