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wharfrat
Citizen
Username: Wharfrat
Post Number: 857
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 5:42 am: | 
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From today's NYT
November 25, 2003
OP-ED COLUMNIST
The Uncivil War
By PAUL KRUGMAN
One of the problems with media coverage of this administration," wrote Eric Alterman in The Nation, "is that it requires bad manners."
He's right. There's no nice way to explain how the administration uses cooked numbers to sell its tax cuts, or how its arrogance and gullibility led to the current mess in Iraq.
So it was predictable that the administration and its allies, no longer very successful at claiming that questioning the president is unpatriotic, would use appeals to good manners as a way to silence critics. Not, mind you, that Emily Post has taken over the Republican Party: the same people who denounce liberal incivility continue to impugn the motives of their opponents.
Smart conservatives admit that their own side was a bit rude during the Clinton years. But now, they say, they've learned better, and it's those angry liberals who have a problem. The reality, however, is that they can only convince themselves that liberals have an anger problem by applying a double standard.
When Ann Coulter expresses regret that Timothy McVeigh didn't blow up The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal laughs it off as "tongue-in-cheek agitprop." But when Al Franken writes about lies and lying liars in a funny, but carefully researched book, he's degrading the discourse.
More important, the Bush administration — which likes to portray itself as the inheritor of Reagan-like optimism — actually has a Nixonian habit of demonizing its opponents.
For example, here's President Bush on critics of his economic policies: "Some say, well, maybe the recession should have been deeper. It bothers me when people say that." Because he used the word "some," he didn't literally lie — no doubt a careful search will find someone, somewhere, who says the recession should have been deeper. But he clearly intended to suggest that those who disagree with his policies don't care about helping the economy.
And that's nothing compared with the tactics now being used on foreign policy.
The campaign against "political hate speech" originates with the Republican National Committee. But last week the committee unveiled its first ad for the 2004 campaign, and it's as hateful as they come. "Some are now attacking the president for attacking the terrorists," it declares.
Again, there's that weasel word "some." No doubt someone doesn't believe that we should attack terrorists. But the serious criticism of the president, as the committee knows very well, is the reverse: that after an initial victory in Afghanistan he shifted his attention — and crucial resources — from fighting terrorism to other projects.
What the critics say is that this loss of focus seriously damaged the campaign against terrorism. Strategic assets in limited supply, like Special Forces soldiers and Predator drone aircraft, were shifted from Afghanistan to Iraq, while intelligence resources, including translators, were shifted from the pursuit of Al Qaeda to the coming invasion. This probably allowed Qaeda members, including Osama bin Laden, to get away, and definitely helped the Taliban stage its ominous comeback. And the Iraq war has, by all accounts, done wonders for Qaeda recruiting. Is saying all this attacking the president for attacking the terrorists?
The ad was clearly intended to insinuate once again — without saying anything falsifiable — that there was a link between Iraq and 9/11. (Now that the Iraq venture has turned sour, this claim is suddenly making the rounds again, even though no significant new evidence has surfaced.) But it was also designed to imply that critics are soft on terror.
All this fuss about civility, then, is an attempt to bully critics into unilaterally disarming — into being demure and respectful of the president, even while his campaign chairman declares that the 2004 election will be a choice "between victory in Iraq and insecurity in America."
And even aside from the double standard, how important is civility? I'm all for good manners, but this isn't a dinner party. The opposing sides in our national debate are far apart on fundamental issues, from fiscal and environmental policies to national security and civil liberties. It's the duty of pundits and politicians to make those differences clear, not to play them down for fear that someone will be offended.
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lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 533
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 9:16 am: |
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Considering some of the posts between you and JCrohn, this is kind of like calling the kettle black.  |
strawberry
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1462
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 10:27 am: |
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Wharfie,
I know it pains folks like yourself and Paul Krugman when you see America pulling away from your ideals. I know it's not easy to accept the fact the country took a serious hit on nine-eleven which in turned has Americans striving to the right because they understand the difference between the strong and the weak. These issues bother you and they bother krugman, and they should because the bottom line is this, you lost!
I've told you this once and I'll do it again. It's over! The day where your party continues destroying the economy and allowing terrorism to mushroom is over. Your party with the pot heads and the Lesbian activists and the other knuckleheads...it's over!
This is now my America and we want results. We want monsters and terrorists wiped off the god damn earth and we want lower taxes so industry can grow and create more jobs. Understood???
It's over for you guys. We gave you eight years of Reaganomics and Reagan International toughness. You returned it to us with economic collapse and International disaster. Wht the hell were you thinking??? Destroying everything Reagan stood for..how dare you!
It's over for you liberal cry babies! I've told you this once and I'll say it again, Wharfe...THIS IS MY AMERICA, AND I'M NOT GIVING IT BACK!!!!
Screw the left, and the liberals, and the whining bleeding heart half wits..Screw the weak and those who oppose America defending herself and defending freedom...It's over for you and Babs and ther rest of you..
YOU LOST AMERICA, AMERICA ISN'T INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU OR KRUGMAN HAVE TO SAY...
GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA..
Everyone!.."God bless America, land that I love...Stand beside her and guide her...." you know the words..step outside and ask your neighor to join in...let us all once again be PROUD AMERICANS!
thank You and don't forget..Bush in 2004. It's the smart play.
"That moment has directly affected my foreign policy. See, it changed the nature of the presidency. It changed the security arrangements of the United States of America. I vowed to the American people I would never forget the lessons of September the 11th, 2001."
--President George W. Bush
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Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5756
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 10:33 am: |
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"This is voodoo economics."
-- President George Bush regarding Reagan's economic plan and legacy |
strawberry
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1463
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 10:40 am: |
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Dave, Bush was wrong and he only admitted that fact about one million times.
"That moment has directly affected my foreign policy. See, it changed the nature of the presidency. It changed the security arrangements of the United States of America. I vowed to the American people I would never forget the lessons of September the 11th, 2001."
--President George W. Bush
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Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5758
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 10:42 am: |
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How do you know? Were you reading his lips? |
strawberry
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1464
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 10:44 am: |
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That's it!..I'm not inviting you to my Dave Ross surprise party at Bunnys!
"That moment has directly affected my foreign policy. See, it changed the nature of the presidency. It changed the security arrangements of the United States of America. I vowed to the American people I would never forget the lessons of September the 11th, 2001."
--President George W. Bush
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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1560
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 10:50 am: |
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,769398,00.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/2020/predator030624.html
http://heraldsun.news.com.au/printpage/0,5481,7599065,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,90318,00.html
quote:I believe that the Bush Administration will spend more time on terrorism generally, and on al-Qaeda specifically, than any other subject
--Sandy Berger, January 2001
quote:"That moment has directly affected my foreign policy. See, it changed the nature of the presidency. It changed the security arrangements of the United States of America. I vowed to the American people I would never forget the lessons of September the 11th, 2001."
--President George W. Bush
yeah, thanks Mr. President.
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bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3925
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 10:59 am: |
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I often wondered how we managed to come up with such a good war plan so quickly once the decision was made to invade Afghanistan. I think this is at least part of the answer.
It is to bad that the Bush Administration had a very bad case of NIH*.
*Not Invented Here |
mfpark
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 59
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 12:19 pm: |
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Hey Strawberry,
Are you taking the country back from the "potheads" and giving it to the pain-killer addicts? Sounds like you and Rush might have more in common than simply ranting and raving and seeing Liberals being bred in dirty bathrooms.
(By the way, whatever happened to the libertarian strain of the Republican Party that did not care if people smoke pot, or who they sleep with, so long as they are not hurting anyone else? Keep government, and moralistic neighbors, out of my business whenver possible--that sort of thing?). |
Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 102
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 12:25 pm: |
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sorry for not responding more timely, mfpark, but i was in the bathroom smoking dope and making out with my friends wife....
the libertarian strain is alive and well, but i would call it a anti-democratic rather than a republican strain.
to all my thoughts, add to the end:
or not.
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Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2482
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 1:39 pm: |
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I hope that, with lines like "your party with the pot heads and the Lesbian activists and the other knuckleheads", Mr. Berry is just putting us on. |
strawberry
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1466
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 2:16 pm: |
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Don't get me wrong, I actually like lesbians.
"That moment has directly affected my foreign policy. See, it changed the nature of the presidency. It changed the security arrangements of the United States of America. I vowed to the American people I would never forget the lessons of September the 11th, 2001."
--President George W. Bush
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Knucklehead
Citizen
Username: Knucklehead
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 2:36 pm: |
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I resemble that remark! |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 306
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 2:42 pm: |
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when is Mr. Berry (or should I say Mr. Clifton) ever NOT putting us on? |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 183
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 7:08 pm: |
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hard to follow this thread, but I did hear that the economy is growing at 8.2% in the third quarter.
Pretty good voodoo economics. |
Diversity Man
Citizen
Username: Deadwhitemale
Post Number: 521
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 10:49 am: |
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Ratso:
A penny for your nan-o-thoughts is extortion.
DWM |
mem aka "toots"
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2337
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 10:52 am: |
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DWM,
That post was hilarious! |
wharfrat
Citizen
Username: Wharfrat
Post Number: 859
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 3:04 pm: |
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Smart conservatives admit that their own side was a bit rude during the Clinton years. But now, they say, they've learned better...
Well Dead,
Paul Krugman obviously wasn't talking about you...
BTW, help us remember the last time you posted something that wasn't a flatulent insult |
strawberry
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1482
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 9:01 am: |
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Warfie,
You sure are sensitve. That's why I love you. You're the soft and cuddly type. Like a Bambi deer looking for love, you want to be held and cared for. You want a peaceful happy world where we can all sing and dance and cry tears of joy everytime Babs sings Memories.
Yes sir, your America should be called the United States of Kissing and Hugging. (USKH)
You're a happy shiny person..
"That moment has directly affected my foreign policy. See, it changed the nature of the presidency. It changed the security arrangements of the United States of America. I vowed to the American people I would never forget the lessons of September the 11th, 2001."
--President George W. Bush
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1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 642
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 1, 2003 - 11:29 am: |
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while it was certainly horrific, 9-11 was not the worst thing to happen to America. we must remember that it was an isolated incident, truly one-of-a-kind thought up by a crazed and fiendish mind. we cannot predict those who think in this heinously devious way. therefore, it is extremely misguided to direct, esp. long-term, our limited national resources to exterminating "those people" when there are many much more serious issues, facing MILLIONS of people in this country, and killing thousands, every day of the year.
the president and Congress should be ashamed that they dwelt on and helped fester our national heartbreak and resulting fear, over an awful yet isolated incident. they should be ashamed they allowed this incident to chart years of US domestic and foreign policy. after grieving, which we all needed, the gov't and the media should have focused on the isolated and unusual nature of the incident, rather than trying to tell us crazed bombers are around every corner. they should have realized and stated that we can NEVER exterminate those who hate us - and that even if we could it is barbaric to do so, and that we should not let ourselves be manipulated by the crazed. |
Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 116
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 1, 2003 - 11:45 am: |
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1-2,
where do you live?
I want to come over and take your stuff.
to all my thoughts, add to the end:
or not.
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Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1221
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 1, 2003 - 12:05 pm: |
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1-2many, you're very brave to say that. No one dares to talk like that. The fact is, we don't know how likely something like that is to recur. I wonder...maybe FDR would have had your attitude. He said we have nothing to fear but fear itself, and our current president says we have everything to fear. I understand fear sells, but I don't think it's valuable merchandise.
Tom Reingold
There is nothing
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