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Message |
    
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2245
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 11:07 am: | 
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Dave: LOL
The use of metal detectors and other enhanced security measures has increased substantially since 9/11. They have become a far too intrinsic part of our lives.
To install metal detectors at CHS would send the wrong message to the students and faculty. Not only would the students feel that they were not being trusted but the teachers and administrators could develop a sense of complacency. If the metal detectors are functioning properly, there could possibly be weapons in the school. Right? WRONG!
The discovery of a CHS student with a gun on the school premises is nothing new. I can remember an incident 10 - 15 years ago when a student was discovered to have a gun at CHS. Strangely, the students who told me of this incident were not especially alarmed or concerned about it. They did not feel the least bit threatened.
The school system's reaction to the incident, if I remember correctly, was to expand the then somewhat experimental peer counseling program and to work with the students to develop less physically violent means of dealing with aggression.
If the decision should be made to install metal detectors at CHS, it should come only after far less invasive means of dealing with the problem were explored with the students. |
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 671
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 11:50 am: |
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I REPEAT, BRIAN O'LEARY HAS STATED THERE WAS NO CONFISCATED HANDGUN AT CHS.
OF THE 1% OF SCHOOLS WITH METAL DETECTORS THE MAJORITY DID NOT 'INSTALL' THEM, RATHER THEY USE HAND-HELD DEVICES.
I have a child at the high school. A white girl. |
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 224
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 12:08 pm: |
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J. Crohn-The football rally incident happened 6-7 years ago and you hit it right on the head, Chatham was playing Millburn (I guess they were trying to send a thinly veiled, subliminal message).
Whats worse is 2 years ago a Reconstructionist Synagogue moved from sharing their space in Madison with Quakers to an Episcopal Church in Chatham. A week before they moved someone put nails all over the parking lot followed by a note that read, "If the Jews come here, worse will happen". A week later the Church received Nazi propaganda in the mail and another threat. The woman Reverand at the church was really great and vowed to fight the cowards and a few of the local politicians joined in.
I'd still rather live here and fight the problems. No matter what race or religion you are, most want a safe haven for their kids. We just have to oust the thugs. |
anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 847
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 12:38 pm: |
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Dave:
Worse than that. The kids would probably all get piercings!
As is more often the case than not, Joan is the voice of reason on this thread. I do appreciate the concerns of Sportsnut, Marie, et. al. Even a rare incident of violence is a major concern if it is your kid who is the victim.
I think the best thing that concerned community members can do at this time is support the CHS Principal. She has all the facts and the resources to separate truth from rumour, the good kids from the bad and she seems to respond in a stern but measured fashion to problems that arise. |
J. Crohn
Citizen
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 739
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 12:51 pm: |
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"(I guess they were trying to send a thinly veiled, subliminal message)."
LOL!
I wasn't aware there were so many Jewish kids at Millburn high that Chatham could target them with their poster. (Which, on one level, is kind of funny, if you consider the possibility that it was really just a bit of anti-pc, intended in the spirit of the game and all.) If so, that might explain why so few kids at Solomon Schechter schools come from Millburn/Short Hills, compared with other communities. Maybe Millburn is already essentially a Jewish school?
"Whats worse is 2 years ago a Reconstructionist Synagogue moved from sharing their space in Madison with Quakers to an Episcopal Church in Chatham."
That's the same synagogue I was referring to: Beth Hatikvah. I thought the vandalism was closer to four years ago, but I'm probably mistaken. I believe they moved to the Episcopal church only last year (2002). And I guess BH wasn't located in Summit, either; the whitebread towns to our west tend to run together for me, which is awful because I've actually attended services at BH. But it was during the high holidays and services were held at the high school rather than the smaller Quaker meeting house, so maybe I should be forgiven, slightly.
"The woman Reverand at the church was really great and vowed to fight the cowards and a few of the local politicians joined in."
Yeah, I remember hearing there had been vocal support for the Jewish community from the church, and no subsequent trouble that I'm aware of.
" I'd still rather live here and fight the problems. No matter what race or religion you are, most want a safe haven for their kids. We just have to oust the thugs."
My sentiments exactly. |
J. Crohn
Citizen
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 740
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 12:58 pm: |
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"I could foresee a big student protest consisting of carrying hundreds of little pieces of metal on their persons, causing each to be inspected for minutes, causing the effective start of school to be moved to 11:00am."
Honestly, that occurred to me. Only, I figured it wouldn't be little pieces of metal, but larger ones, like belt buckles and jewelry or something...
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J. Crohn
Citizen
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 741
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 1:02 pm: |
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Marie, what's your source on the handgun report? Is Brian mistaken, or has the BOE not been apprised, or was there no gun? |
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 672
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 1:19 pm: |
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anon: agreed. we SHOULD support the Pollack administration. even the posters that are the most vehement about problems at CHS, have, to their credit, acknowledged improvement under Pollack's leadership.
we should also get and listen to the input of the peace officers that are there every day and have a similarly great view of what is going on. (it bears repeating that these peace officers have NOT suggested extreme measures - just more peace officers.) |
annettedepalma
Citizen
Username: Annettedepalma
Post Number: 310
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 1:45 pm: |
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What's unclear about these reasons (which, by the way, span the practical to the philosophical) to oppose metal detectors at Columbia?: the students would be afraid; the community would think the schools are unsafe; they would be expensive; they wouldn't work.
And, whether the factors underlying this opinion are disputable has no bearing on their clarity.
I realize that this straightforward position lacks the "edu-speak" and incidental babble that makes this topic so, uhm, "special;" but as a person whose professional life is built on using language precisely, and, as the mother of three children (in our schools), I can tell you that plain words work best. |
annettedepalma
Citizen
Username: Annettedepalma
Post Number: 311
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 1:52 pm: |
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Oops, thought I was posting to the education thread. Sentiment stands, but not for the "Soapbox." I'll plead "snow delirium...". |
J. Crohn
Citizen
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 745
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 3:25 pm: |
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1-2 many: "we should also get and listen to the input of the peace officers that are there every day and have a similarly great view of what is going on."
An excellent suggestion, especially if you can get an officer to communicate frankly with you.
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Duncan
Citizen
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 1261
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 3:49 pm: |
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J. Crohn That is a faintly paranoid suggestion. Either that or gigantically cynical.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"
Wayne Gretzky
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marie
Citizen
Username: Marie
Post Number: 952
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 4:27 pm: |
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JCrohn,
The information regarding the gun came from a superintendant's memo. I posted the information about the memo somewhere in another thread and recommended anyone who wants to get this information for themselves request an OPRA.
I don't know if Brian O Leary recieved this memo.
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J. Crohn
Citizen
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 747
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 6:06 pm: |
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"That is a faintly paranoid suggestion. Either that or gigantically cynical."
? Perhaps you read my remark as sarcasm. I was simply alluding in all earnestness to the fact that some cops are more forthcoming than others.
Marie,
Thanks for the clarification. I asked Brian about the gun issue. He said he has not been made aware of the situation you describe, but that if a disciplinary hearing is underway, he would not yet have been notified.
He also said that if a child at CHS is found to have been in possession of a handgun, there is no doubt he will be expelled. |
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1351
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 12:59 pm: |
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Back on December 5, sportsnut said, You didn't answer my question about how many incidents would you need to convince you of the problem? I'm all for a wait and see attitude, but please quantify for me the level of crime you need to see before you consider the cost of any safety measure to be "worth it."
Good question, for which I don't have a precise answer. So far, there is one claim of a handgun on school premises, which Marie supplied. 1-2many followed up and investigated, and her information tells her that it was a BB gun away from the premises. Giving each of these women half the benefit of the doubt, that leaves us with one half of one incident. I don't know how many we need, but in my book, it has to be more than one half.
Then 1-2many informed us that no school anywhere in the country has an airport style metal detector.
I think that to tackle this question, we should look at what's a normal amount of crime. Then we should ask if that normal is tolerable. THAT is a tough question. Then we should ask what measures are effective at stemming crime and weapons possession.
Then we should see where SO/M fits into the curves for normal crime. Then we should make goals as to where we want to move along those curves.
Once again, I appreciate your point about analysis paralysis, but I think it would be pure folly to install a metal detector first and ask these questions later.
In fact, this thread has died because it ends up looking mostly like rumor and panic and not a lot of useful information.
Tom Reingold
There is nothing
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ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1709
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 8:11 pm: |
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touche prissy pants! |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 352
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 11:30 pm: |
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I've decided that Maplewood (and the world in general) is just too dangerous a place. I mean, why limit this to CHS? A person could get shot at the post office, or Burger King, or walking down Maplewood Ave. as easily as inside a school. I'm encasing myself and my kids in portable metal detectors that we can have with us at all times. If anyone carrying a metal object moves to within five feet of us, a piercing alarm will sound.
Can't be too careful. |
marie
Citizen
Username: Marie
Post Number: 955
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 7:39 am: |
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I've put several calls into the MPD asking the following:
Does Maplewood keep separate statistics on gang related crimes?
What method does the MPD use to keep these statistics?
Is an OPRA required to obtain them?
I haven't received an answer yet, but will post any and all information when I do.
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Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2540
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 9:29 am: |
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Due to family activities, I was unable to attend the last NAG meeting on Monday. Perhaps these issues were touched on then.
At the previous meeting, Officer Cross of the Maplewood Police introduced himself as the officer responsible for addressing gang-related issues. He and Chief Cimino discussed how law enforcement makes a determination regarding whether an offender or other individuals should be classified as having "gang" connections. Major Rivera of the State Police, who is with the State's task force in Irvington, also discussed how law enforcement uses gang identification as a tool to respond to crime. All of those officials also indicated that, in investigating crimes, our police will look into whether there is a gang connection. They all stressed that members of the public should provide them with any information they have, so that the police can determine whether a particular circumstance is an indication of gang activity.
I guess all of the above is a long way of saying, that I would expect the police would have statistics on the arrests of individuals identified as gang members. Upon conviction, that information would definitely be publicly available. Prior to prosecution or conviction, though, law enforcement officials and the prosecutors office may be able to keep certain information confidential, so as not to hinder their investigations. |
marie
Citizen
Username: Marie
Post Number: 959
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 9:41 pm: |
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According to the father of the child attacked in the park, the assault was gang related. He recounted his son's experience, in a letter to the Editor, in yesterday's News Record.
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1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 733
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 9:48 pm: |
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I just read that letter this evening. that's not what he says at all. it's just the inference the father draws. in doing so, he expresses frustration with the police.
he notes Chief Cimino's statement that the actual level of gang-related activity and arrests, does NOT warrant the high level of community concern over gangs. the child's father notes this in frustration, disagreeing with it.
why would our police have any incentive to downplay gang involvement? seems to me their incentive, if they have one, would the opposite - to play it up to rally community support for police requests.
the stories of what happened are disparate. that said, my compassion IS with this child and family, no matter how it happened. as bobk astutely noted, it generally takes some time for the real story to get out, when a teen boy has gotten beaten up. |
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