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Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 4255
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 4:21 pm: | 
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http://cbsnewyork.com/topstories/topstories_story_011113542.html
folks,
Can't make this stuff up. The man who probably cost The Dems the election, now wants to destroy what's left of the party..
libs... |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 43
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 8:53 pm: |
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If it happens 2007 will be a fun year politically speaking (and a great year for non-thinking red staters). |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 958
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 10:04 pm: |
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Yeah, this sounds like pretty dangerous stuff:
quote:But when political calculations make us soften our opposition to bigotry, or sign on to policies that add to the burden of ordinary Americans, we have abandoned our true values. We cannot let that happen. And we cannot just mouth the words. Our party must speak plainly and our agenda must clearly reflect the socially progressive, fiscally responsible values that bring our party -- and the vast majority of Americans -- together.
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 594
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 6:24 am: |
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1- This is CBS. How can you trust anything they report, Straw? And how can you be reading their web site? Surely there was another source you could have pulled for this...
2-This is old news. It might be a new story on CBS's web site, but this has been talked about already.
3-Dean did not cost Democrats the election, Kerry did. He was a weak candidate that had trouble effectively putting forth his opinions and responding to attacks.
4-Though Dean had an outburst during the primary campaign, he's actually not as crazy as he was made ot to be.
Personally, I couldn't care less who is head of the DNC. Bush can't run again. That's all I care about. No matter who is elected in 2008, it will be a time of rebuilding. |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 293
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 8:17 am: |
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Personally, I couldn't care less who is head of the DNC. Bush can't run again. That's all I care about.
DITTO! |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 3221
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 8:28 am: |
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jeb? |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 4970
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 10:40 am: |
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Speaking of Dean
US ends search for WMD in Iraq |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 3002
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 11:14 am: |
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"Soften our opposition to bigotry" -- great line, Howie. Anyone who is conservative is bigoted, I guess. Plays really, really well.
"Progressive" is a nice dodge, too. |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1362
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 11:20 am: |
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I was impressed when I saw Dean hand David Brooks his ••• during an exchange of comments during the Democratic convention. Brooks was smug and presumptuous and he got flattened by a man who has done a very competent job running Vermont for a long time.
We will still be in Iraq in 2007 by almost anyone's guess, so don't underestimate just how unpopular that war will no doubt be by then. Dean might be the best choice imaginable.
Even Safire today wrote that the republicans will lose their majority soon. Nothing lasts forever, folks. |
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 1666
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 11:21 am: |
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Future SNL bit.
Bush at GOP rally screaming.
We're going to BAGHDAD to find thos WMD
Crowd-YAYYYY
Then we're going to Karbala to find those WMD
Crowd-YAYYYY
Then we'll even go to Al Basrah to find those pesky WMD
Crowd-Yayy
Colin Powell steps up, whispers in DUMBYA's ear , "Forget it Mr. President, there are no WMD to be found".
Bush to Crowd- Nevermind but we kicked some butts huh ?.
Crowd-YAYYYYYYYYYY |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1854
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 11:46 am: |
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"Soften our opposition to bigotry" -- great line, Howie. Anyone who is conservative is bigoted, I guess.
Classic cjc response. Nobody on MOL works harder to find offense in a remark.
By the way, Dean is a good choice to lead the DNC, for the same reasons that he would have been a welcome breath of fresh air in the White House. While Vermont is certainly not representative of the rest of America, he was elected governor there 5 times in a row, demonstrating serious political savvy. He has shown excellent budgeting skills and fiscal responsibility. Also he accomplished something that many governors have tried and failed to achieve: universal healthcare for the children in his state. He also is pro-death penalty in some cases, and the NRA gave him a double-A rating. He's a very well-informed person and can think on his feet -- unlike certain leading Republicans. If not for his hard stance against the war in Iraq, I think he could have had the White House. |
Joe
Citizen
Username: Gonets
Post Number: 602
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 11:54 am: |
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Notehead I think that because of his hard stance against the war in Iraq he may have been a more viable candidate than Kerry who didn't do a good job shedding the flip-flop label when it came to the war. Dean would have presented a sharper contrast to Bush on the war issue. Dean could legitimately say that we shouldn't have gone into Iraq. Kerry could only say he wouldn't have gone into Iraq in the way that GWB did--which was pretty lame. |
Albatross
Citizen
Username: Albatross
Post Number: 434
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 12:27 pm: |
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"shedding the [insert criticism here] label..."
If you ever wondered what was wrong with politics, this phrase captures it. Since when has it been about labels? Answer to rhetorical question: since a significant portion of both liberals and conservatives abandonned debate and turned to labeling. Instead of debating issues, candidates on both sides have to shed labels. That's it for my rant. EDIT: not meant to be critical of Joe; it's just a phrase that popped out at me
One wonders what Dean's prospects will be in 2008. Assume that the military withdraws from Iraq in 2007: if withdrawl from Iraq was a factor in Dean's lack of support, how will his support be if it's a non-issue? I think that both Notehead and Joe are partially right; Dean's hard-line stance drew his support farther to the left but pushed out Democrats who disagreed with a withdrawl. Again, what happens when its a non-issue?
I don't see how his chairmanship of the DNC is a problem at all. Someone both assertive and confident enough to speak what he thinks, rather than adjusting his beliefs to what people want. After all, wasn't that the problem many voters perceived in John Kerry? If sticking to a position is also a problem then... hmmm... I guess its arrogance or steadfastness depending on what side of the aisle you're on. |
Joe
Citizen
Username: Gonets
Post Number: 605
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 12:44 pm: |
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Albatross,
I share your despair about having to contend with labels as opposed to allowing genuine debate. Unfortunately labeling, rather than providing substantial, thorough arguments, is much more effective in our soundbite driven media. This explains why our painfully inarticulate president can be the day's prototypical politician, while public figures capable of offering in-depth analyses of complex issues are dismissed as dull and nuanced. |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 1434
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 12:58 pm: |
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Please, oh PLEASE let it happen.
It will guarantee a GOP president on 08.
Please please please!
Can I donate to Deans DNC campaign anywhere? |
Joe
Citizen
Username: Gonets
Post Number: 607
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 1:11 pm: |
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I know what you're saying Michael. It would be a big gamble, but drifting to the right (following Clinton's example) doesn't seem to be working anyway, plus it begs the question what's the point of having a democratic party if they're going to be virtually indistinguishable from the republicans. It's not like we're talking about different brands of toothpaste. It reminds me of something I overheard McGreevey say to a campaign strategist, bothered by a right-leaning position he took, who asked, "What happened to you? You used to be such a good democrat?"
His response, "I want to get elected."
I'm sure the DNC would be grateful for such a donation--just make sure to earmark it for Dean. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 604
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 1:13 pm: |
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MJ, why do you think Dean being DNC chair would guarantee a GOP victory? I doubt most people could name the RNC or DNC chairs, and I don't think he would pull the party as far to the left as most people think. besides, it's not like Terry MacAuliff (sp?) did much to help the DNC. He was a fund-raiser, not a leader.
I'm not saying I think Dean will do a great job. Just curious why you think he wouldn't. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 50
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 1:27 pm: |
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You guys are all partially correct. The Democrats could easily have won this past election but they had a bad lot to choose from. How many electoral votes does Massachusetts have? How many does Vermont? Either of these guys would have lost. The Democrats have abandoned most of the country and paid for it. As I stated in a previous post, if they would have gotten a candidate from a electoral rich state somewhere other than a state they already had locked up then it would have been more interesting. They blew it and apparently haven't learned anything. It's a numbers game pure and simple. If Dean does become the DNC chairman it's more of the same. The Republicans are just dying to use the "Northeast liberal" label some more. And let's face it, it works, which is why Clinton did so well. It didn't work because he wasn't one and he appealed to a lot of electoral votes. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 4261
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 1:30 pm: |
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not making Gephardt the VP was just stupid. Edwards was hated in N.Carolina. Wasn't even going to carry his own state.
Gephardt could have made the difference.
Strawberry is a proud Republican.
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Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 2325
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 1:35 pm: |
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No ****? |
bottomline
Citizen
Username: Bottomline
Post Number: 146
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 3:35 pm: |
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VP? If Gephardt had gotten nominated instead of Kerry, he would have beaten Bush. Wouldn't have mattered much who was the Dem's VP candidate. Kerry was the problem for the Dems, not Edwards.
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Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 4263
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 5:27 pm: |
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jerkyboy
Citizen
Username: Jerkyboy
Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 7:09 pm: |
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Mr. Strawberry,
Nice picture!
Where did you find it? |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 1444
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 2:45 pm: |
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Rastro,
Dean would be the voice of the party, on all the pundit shows, all the Sunday AM shows, he'd pull in fundraisers like Soros.
He'd move the Dems to an undefendable position by pandering to the most fringe, most vocal elements of the party. This is not a way to win. Candidates would have to reject the party or reject themajority of people in their own party. Either way, unwinnable.
I don't think Dean will be elected to DNC chair. No one is that stupid. |
Joe
Citizen
Username: Gonets
Post Number: 611
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 3:57 pm: |
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You mean like the way that Dean panders to the gun control lobby? |
anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 1586
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 9:53 pm: |
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"The Democrats have abandoned most of the country and paid for it."
Yeah, like New York and California. How about the whole Northeast and Pacific Northwest. What is "most of the country": Mississippi, Utah, North Dakota?
Kerry won every State that Gore won except for New Mexico. And he won New Hampshire, which Gore lost. After 4 year as president, in the middle of a War, after 9-11, running against a guy most people had never heard of a year before, Bush was unable to pick up a single State he lost last time except New Mexico, and he lost New Hampshire! When Reagan was re-elected he carried 49 States! How many did Clinton carry when he was re-elected?
Let's divide the country in two: One country would be the States Kerry carried and one would be the one Bush carried. Which one would you want to live in? The "Bush Country" would be a third-world nation. The "Kerry Country" is where the financial markets and major corporations are. |
Face
Citizen
Username: Face
Post Number: 489
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 2:58 pm: |
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Looks like Howard Dean was paying off bloggers when he was running for president. Will the media give this the same coverage they gave the Armstrong Williams case? Of course not. Democrats always get a pass.
Check out "Blogging for Dollars" http://politics.slate.msn.com/id/2112314/
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Mark Fuhrman
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 1149
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 4:07 pm: |
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Face: Thanks for the link. While the Slate article sort of gives a pass to The Daily Kos because a) he is not a journalist, and b) he disclosed up front that he took money from Dean, that is thin gruel at best. Blogging is going to pose interesting challenges like this going forward, and I certainly put it in the same category of the Bush Admin paying off conservative pundits.
Here is a pertinent excerpt from the article:
Political campaigns and consultants are becoming increasingly skillful at manipulating the mainstream press by planting stories in the blogosphere. Despite this, the mainstream press remains credulous about blogging. During South Dakota's U.S. Senate race between Tom Daschle and John Thune, the Thune campaign put two local political bloggers on its payroll. One got $27,000, the other $8,000. Their anti-Daschle reports trickled up into South Dakota newspapers.
The lesson for a campaign is obvious: Got a story you can't convince a mainstream reporter to run? Leak it anonymously to a blog on your payroll. Then get a local reporter to write a story on the controversial, gossipy, local political blog. Soon everyone in town will be talking about the story you leaked to the blog. Voila! Eventually a mainstream news organization will run a story on the rumor that "everyone is talking about." Or they'll do a "what people are buzzing about on the Internet" piece. And no one will know that the blog post was a paid placement until after the election.
If Moulitsas [the Daily Kos] takes money from political candidates in 2006 and 2008 without telling you who's paying him, stop giving his recommended candidates your dollars. Here's what Moulitsas wrote about payola pundit Armstrong Williams' assertion that "There are others" on the government dole: "Until names are named, we can assume every conservative pundit is on the White House's payola rolls." That's questionable logic, but let's take Moulitsas up on his challenge: Until names are named, we can assume every Daily Kos candidate this past election wrote him a check for his consulting work.
Chris Suellentrop is Slate's deputy Washington bureau chief. You can e-mail him at suellentropc@slate.com. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1875
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 10:28 am: |
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"While they ended up also providing useful advice, the initial reason for our outreach was explicitly to buy their airtime. To be very clear, they never committed to supporting Dean for the payment—but it was very clearly, internally, our goal."
I think that's a considerable difference between this situation and the Armstrong situation. |
Madden 11
Citizen
Username: Madden_11
Post Number: 600
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 2:02 pm: |
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Mark--
That Slate article is pure horsesh*t. To cite your citation:
If Moulitsas [the Daily Kos] takes money from political candidates in 2006 and 2008 without telling you who's paying him, stop giving his recommended candidates your dollars.
This statement implies that he never disclosed the paid relationship with the Dean campaign, when the exact opposite is true. A plainly worded disclaimer ran on the front page of his site for the full length of his relationship with the campaign...there was no missing it.
I urge you to seek out some of the many defenses of Daily Kos, some written by people who were actually there, and who can refute these spurious "charges."
To say that a public relationship between a political campaign and a technical consultant is no different than the government secretly using taxpayer money to fund propaganda is just wrong. |
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