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Archive through January 20, 2005tulipRastro20 1-20-05  2:19 pm
Archive through January 20, 2005RastroRobert Livingston20 1-20-05  3:21 pm
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cjc
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Username: Cjc

Post Number: 3037
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hillary has a come-to-Jesus moment.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/01/20/sen_clinton_urges_use_of_fa ith_based_initiatives/

If this isn't naked political opportunism to shore up evangelical black supporters, it must be that's her faith speaking that was held hostage for the support of the Tolerant Left.
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sportsnut
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Username: Sportsnut

Post Number: 1711
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Uke - I wasn't necessarily referring to you.

What is the big deal if he mentions God (not unlike many of the presidents before him)? Who cares? He's not forcing you to attend services is he? If God is a dirty word for you turn off the TV.
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tulip
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Username: Braveheart

Post Number: 1963
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's interesting now is the guy with the bullhorn. He pipes up every time the boos get a little loud. He just said, "The president of the United States" as if he were in a three ring circus. How declasse!
Sport: God is not a dirty word to me. I am actually encouraged when people like GWB encourage themselves and others to be good Christians. Just wish they could stick to it, that's all.
(See Robert's post.)
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Rastro
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Username: Rastro

Post Number: 621
Registered: 5-2004


Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cjc, you seem to have missed this part...

""The Clintons, on faith-based solutions, have always been way ahead of the curve," said Rivers, citing President Clinton's support of a 1996 law banning the federal government from discriminating against religious organizations seeking funding available to groups delivering social services."

Given that, why would you assume she was ever opposed to it? Did she claim to be at one point?
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tulip
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Username: Braveheart

Post Number: 1964
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

However, it get's a bit cloying when there are five prayers in one inauguration, hundreds of references to god...all right already. What about us folks down here?
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ajc
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Username: Ajc

Post Number: 3406
Registered: 9-2001
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"It's interesting to note that in most of Europe, a politician mentioning god is usually history."

It's more interesting to think that anyone still thinks that Europe, or for that matter any political entity in the world would have any affect on how we govern or worship God in America...
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tulip
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Username: Braveheart

Post Number: 1965
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heaven forbid. Yet we suppose it's OK for Bush to say that we're going to impose our definition of "freedom" and our definition of "liberty" and "democracy" on the rest of the world.
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Ukealalio
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Username: Ukealalio

Post Number: 1725
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We're the United States of America, god is on OUR side. Our President was told this 1st hand.
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cjc
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Username: Cjc

Post Number: 3040
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 4:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right you are, Rastro. I googled around a bit, and while I knew Bill Clinton offered a faith-based program or opportunity in 1996, I had no idea Hillary hadn't joined her sisters of NOW opposing it now that Bush is in office.

I stand corrected.
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ajc
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Username: Ajc

Post Number: 3407
Registered: 9-2001
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 4:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"We're the United States of America, god is on OUR side."

Lets hope so! At least in our lifetime this seems to be true.... Hey, what's so wrong with imposing our definition of "freedom" and our definition of "liberty" and "democracy" on the rest of the world? What else should we do, let the rest of the world impose their definitions of "World Order" on us? ie: WWI, WWII, how about September 11th? It's a tough and cruel world out here.

So, whether it's France, Germany, Russia, Iraq, Iran, China, North Korea, the inept and bungling United Nations, or even God... when the going gets though, the tough get going... We pray for peace and fight for freedom!
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tulip
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Username: Braveheart

Post Number: 1966
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 4:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please, someone else take this one. Please?
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Robert Livingston
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Username: Rob_livingston

Post Number: 726
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 4:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've had enough, Tulip, but I hear your plea...
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Earlster
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Username: Earlster

Post Number: 882
Registered: 8-2003


Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 5:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tulip you mean take "pray for peace and fight for freedom"?

There is nothing more to be said. It's very sad.
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ajc
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Username: Ajc

Post Number: 3409
Registered: 9-2001
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 5:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quitters!
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Ukealalio
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Username: Ukealalio

Post Number: 1733
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 5:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bet thats what you also say to people in AA.
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Ukealalio
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Username: Ukealalio

Post Number: 1735
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 5:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Then again, Peace is all relative. Remember in the History of the World when Hitler started saying, "I just want Peace , I just want Peace", then broke into the song:
A little piece of Poland
A Little piece of France

I know-Not so funny.
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ajc
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Username: Ajc

Post Number: 3410
Registered: 9-2001
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 5:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's a very stupid thing to say Puke-alalio...

I've know and supported a lot of people in AA, and they ain't quitters pal...
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Ukealalio
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Username: Ukealalio

Post Number: 1737
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 5:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And I never said they were. Simply saying that someone who would call critics of your "pray for peace fight for freedom" comment, "Quitters", may make that statement.

It's that comprehension thing again. Try ritalin, it helps.
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Ukealalio
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Username: Ukealalio

Post Number: 1738
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 5:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PS:

Pal-A friend;a chum.

With pals like you, who needs enemies ?.

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Mustt_mustt
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Username: Mustt_mustt

Post Number: 212
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 5:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know for sure that the President and Prime Minister of India, the largest democracy in the world and also rated the most religious, are not allowed to use any religious text for swearing in. They take the oath on the Constitution of the nation.
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Mark Fuhrman
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Username: Mfpark

Post Number: 1165
Registered: 9-2001


Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 5:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In re: Bush invoking God over and over--what did you expect? He is not about to change now--if anything, in Bush 2 he will be more up-front about his beliefs since he is a lame duck and Cheney has no interest in running, and he thinks America agrees with him.

I am not saying you have to accept or approve of it, but surely it is exactly what you were expecting from his speech. In fact, I am surprised he wasn't more extreme, because I think he is a lot more extreme in his beliefs than he lets on. This is one cat who really does think he has God-given insight into the truth, who believes he answers to no one at all, and who feels no need to explain himself even when he is a total fraud (WMD--oops!).

During Vietnam, Nixon made a great ploy of watching Ohio State football and ignoring the thousands protesting outside--but he really peeked out the curtains and was distraught about it. Bush could truly care less--he has no concern whatsoever for what 49% of the electorate might think.
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Michael Janay
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Username: Childprotect

Post Number: 1475
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 6:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was 48%
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Mark Fuhrman
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Username: Mfpark

Post Number: 1166
Registered: 9-2001


Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 6:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh yeah, that makes it all better!
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Mustt_mustt
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Username: Mustt_mustt

Post Number: 213
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 7:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

www.counterpunch.org

A Mock Epic Fertility Rite
The Bush Inauguration
By WILLIAM A. COOK

As we enter this New Year, we are, like Tantalus, trapped between extremes: unable to reach the fruit that hangs just beyond our reach and unable to quench our thirst by drinking from the water that laps at our chin. Hope hung before us during the election season, hope for any change that might arrest the Cabal that has taken control of our government, gone now into the ephemeral mist of paperless ballots and absent voting booths. And that river of change we thought we floated in, the ever-changing river that would nourish us in the coming years with its clear waters and purifying powers, now only a dream of what might have been. But we are here nonetheless, caught in the flotsam of the past four years that turned this country into a cesspool of lies and deceit, overflowing now with even greater arrogance and vengeance, determined to spread its toxic waste throughout the world.

Today America inaugurates a newly elected President, a ceremony that traditionally celebrates the promise of our Democracy, recognition of the people's right to consent to be governed by a person they selected and fulfillment of the promise of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. How ironic, then, this immanent inauguration of the Lord of Misrule, this comic fool who struts his hour on the stage, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing!

What pray tell is there to celebrate? Why spend forty million dollars to recognize a man whose efforts to date have been to undermine our democracy, not to strengthen the pillars on which it rests; to carve the nation into the haves and the have nots, not to build bridges of support to aid all our citizens; to sever alliances with the nations of the world, not to forge agreements that bind us as one to better conditions for all; to make America a pariah among nations, not loved for its rational policies but feared for its erratic, unpredictable actions that threaten stability in the world; and, perhaps worst of all, to turn America from a nation revered by many because of its compassion for others and its perceived desire to bring the significance of individual rights to all to one that supports oppression and occupation, torture, and disdain for human rights.

What has this administration brought us but disrespect, dishonor and despair?

Disrespect for our democracy as it has become the lackey of corporate powers and religious zealots; dishonor as a people, seen now as manikins manipulated by money and ministers before all the nations of the earth; and despair resulting from our inability as individuals to prevent the wanton slaughter wrought by our weapons of mass destruction on all the helpless in the mid-east? What, then, is this inauguration but a mock-epic fittingly tuned to the roots from which it sprang: a fertility rite conducted by a druid priest ceremoniously inducting Bush into office ensuring that the few will reap a rich harvest from the many who bow obsequiously before his altar.

I'm afraid I do not hear rising above the processional lofty anthems signaling the ascendancy of a worthy man with compassionate ideals to the position of "most powerful man on earth." I hear instead the marching drums and shrill patter of the fife leading the congregation of believers in "Onward Christian Soldiers" as they assemble for the final battle Christ has promised them if they are to attain everlasting glory. But I hear as well the distant wail of children blinded and burned by our depleted uranium, and those crushed beneath the rubble of our precision bombing, and those caught in the savagery of "green parrots," tantalizing toys created by our weapons merchants to dismember and maim innocent children, and those caught by chance in the crowds as Israel hurls missiles at men it has judged worthy of death but not worthy of a trial, a decidedly democratic way of celebrating the rite that brings Bush to the presidency of a purportedly Christian nation. "All those who take the sword will perish by the sword," (Matt. 26: 52) appears to be a forgotten admonition, as forgotten as the words of the Psalmist by the Jews: "O Lord, if I have done this, if there is injustice on my hands, if I have rendered evil to him who was at peace with me, or, without cause, have plundered him who was no enemy, let the enemy pursue and overtake my soul; let him trample my life to the ground and lay my honor in the dust." (Psalm 7: 3-5).

No, I'm afraid this inauguration is not a celebration for me or for half the nation who voted against this Cabal, whose ruthless and un-Christian actions hurl America backward in time and morality to barbarous days when might made right and life was reserved only for those willing and capable of killing. No, I'm afraid the righteous must do the celebrating even as they attend his coronation as Emperor of Fools. Let them celebrate his morality that proclaims salvation for the yet to be born while he mutilates children in kindergartens with misplaced missiles; decries terrorist acts of wanton slaughter even as he and Sharon, his puppeteer, terrorizes innocent civilians with crippling and deadly missiles hurled into crowded streets and apartment buildings; feigns outrage at suicide bombers but demands his minions torture and kill prisoners, then, shamelessly denies that he is responsible; admonishes the nations of the world for permitting the UN to be ridiculed by rogue nations that defy their resolutions while he supports, nay encourages, Israel to terrorize the indigenous population of the land they have stolen despite having mocked the UN by defying more than 155 Resolutions; brazenly condescends to Israeli demolition of homes, thousands of them, in full violation of human rights and international law; lures the compliant citizenry of the US into a devastating, illegal and immoral invasion of another state by lying to the people, time and time again, compounded by his lying that he had not lied; and, most ironically, ridicules the evangelical Christian community, those most devoted to his cause, by hypocritically declaring that he is a messenger of God, indeed, on a mission from God since he receives messages from Him, when, in fact, he is but a deluded fool responsive to myths believed as reality. Zealots, unfortunately, succumb to imposed literalism as a salve to suppress ignorance, and that in turn allows the most insidious evil to escape scrutiny.

These pseudo-Christians, these end-timers, dominionists, Zionist evangelicals raise their collective hands in swaying unison proclaiming passionately their belief in Jesus, damning disbelievers who threaten their institution of marriage with civil unions and their pro-life commandment with a woman's right to choose, believing erroneously that Jesus preached these truths. He did not. "Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful," (Luke 6:36) that is what He said; "As you wish that men would do to you, do you to them," (Luke 6:31) that is what He said; "So also my heavenly Father will do to you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart," (Matt: 18:35) that is what He said; "Judge not, that you be not judged," (Matt: 7:1) that is what He said; "This I command to you to love one another," (John 15: 16-17) that is what He said; "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your father who is in heaven," (Matt: 5: 43-45) that is what He said; "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another," (John 13:33-35) that is what He said. These are the words of the Christ, not "Kill, Kill!" Where is the NEW Testament in the rants of the ministers of war? Why do they resort to the wrathful, malicious, judgmental G-d of the OLD Testament? Let that G-d judge His chosen people; let Jesus open salvation to all in mercy and forgiveness. Enough of vengeance and retaliation; bring back the sun of Christ's spirit.

These ministers mock the democracy they claim to support by denying the unalienable rights guaranteed in the Declaration of Independence since they crush freedom of thought under the monolith of prescribed dogma and doctrine; they turn religion into tyranny over the mind, forcing their faithful to negate thought in favor of "belief" in them, regardless of reason's questioning the literalism of their teachings or the probability that Robertson or Bush talks to God, a convenient ruse that allows them to accept "faith" without question but denies that route to God to those of other faiths; and, most deceptively and insidiously, they convert Christianity into cruelty in the name of the most peaceful man to tread the earth as they raise their collective swords against the infidels in the mid-east. Their religion is a religion of hate, of oppression, of fanatical singleness of belief, of divisiveness, of arrogance, of exclusivity that denies the ideal of the brotherhood and sisterhood of humankind, of mercy and charity, of love and forgiveness, the sun of Christ's spirit.

Ironically, the neo-cons who wrote the sacred books of this administration ­ the Patriot Act, Powell's WMD presentation before the UN, the National Security Strategy Report ­ deny the validity of Christianity even as they delight in the blindness of the faithful as a tool to be used to solidify their intent to control the world. These modern, Machiavellian manipulators salivate at the millions who accept on faith that God has chosen Bush to fulfill His mission to bring about the Rapture and usher in the 1000 years of peace. Equally ironic one could argue is the laughable parallel between this inauguration and that held when Cromwell took power in England in the mid 1600s, another time when mis-guided clergy predicted the coming of Armageddon as that state moved toward a theocracy. How many times must Armageddon come before we realize Revelations is a work of metaphors not a history text or the word of God?

The last time a king was crowned believing in his heart that God Himself had anointed him, he found himself in due time brought before the court of the people's representatives, would you believe on January 20th 1648 in the Great Hall of Westminster, where he was charged with "High Treason" because he had broken his oath of office by seeking "unlimited and tyrannical power, attempted to overthrow the peoples liberties," and "traitorously and maliciously" made war against the people. Charles I went defiantly to his death insisting that no earthly power could dissemble what God had foreordained. But this was the time of the Levellers, those who, long before our Founding Fathers extolled the idea, held that "all power is originally and essentially in the whole body of the people." Now this country is faced, somewhat incredibly, with a bunch of men who believe they are the chosen, either by Straussian determinist beliefs as fitting to rule or by God's recognition of them as of the elect. They come to celebrate the crowning of George W. Bush, the self-proclaimed disciple of the only true Lord, sent on His mission to bring His gift to all humankind, a veritable "divinely anointed Emperor" of the world, a return to days of yore when people accepted what their ministers preached, that God blesses those leaders they, on His behalf, anoint, and negate, thereby, the unalienable rights that reside in the body politic, each and every citizen of this nation.

How quaint, indeed, that this bastion of the 21st century should resort to concepts long dead as the means to effect the dreams of the Cabal that has stolen the American Dream, the belief that the people rule the country, substituting in its place rule by fear that they, like ancient conquerors of old, might impose their imperialistic designs on powerless nations in order to ensure their ultimate control. How fitting, then, that we witness this cabalistic inauguration orchestrated by our own Cabal, not dissimilar to that which surrounded Charles II, progeny of the doomed King Charles I (another irony I might add), an inauguration filled with intrigue and ritual, a mock rite sanctified by self-proclaimed interpreters of God's word.

William Cook is a professor of English at the University of La Verne in southern California. His new book, Psalms for the 21st Century, was published by Mellen Press.
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ajc
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Username: Ajc

Post Number: 3412
Registered: 9-2001
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 11:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

.... well other than all that, what do you think about his tax cuts? Pretty good, huh?
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Montagnard
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Username: Montagnard

Post Number: 1395
Registered: 6-2003


Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 11:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They won't feel so good when foreign investors in the U.S. start looking for better opportunities in other countries. Unless the government raises taxes to pay for the military adventure in Iraq (and to balance its books in general), we're looking at a long inflationary period just like Vietnam.
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Dave
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Username: Dave

Post Number: 5031
Registered: 4-1998


Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 12:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On exagerating the role of church/state in explaining Bush's victory....


quote:

America's Democrats won't unseat the Republicans by adopting their languages and policies. Their job is to oppose


Erik Tarloff

Michael Lind’s analysis of the 2004 presidential election (Prospect, January) was intelligent and well informed, but it may have assumed, or imposed, a rationality on the part of voters that doesn’t actually exist.

I should declare at the outset that my thoughts are predicated on a belief that George W Bush’s presidency is a catastrophic failure. His first four years were distinguished by staggering fiscal profligacy, an unjustified war inadequately prepared and ineptly managed, official mendacity on an epic scale, a net loss of jobs (the first such during any presidential term in the last 70 years), a bumptious screw-you diplomacy directed at allies and adversaries alike, and divisive and gratuitously provocative domestic initiatives.

These failures were public knowledge before the election. In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, the media may have been inclined to treat the Bush presidency with deference, but by the early months of 2004 that situation had begun to change. There were at least hints the Iraq war was going badly, the ostensible reasons for its being fought had been revealed as false, the barbaric treatment of political prisoners had been exposed, the regressive nature of administration taxation policy was well known, the immensity of federal deficits was a matter of wonderment and dismay. In addition, by late spring, the country was awash in books adumbrating these failures, many of them written by conservatives disenchanted with the man they had supported and in some cases worked for. As the election season proceeded, a large number of well-known Republicans refused to endorse Bush’s re-election, and stated their reasons in signed editorials appearing in big American newspapers.

So how could he possibly win? One answer arguably subsuming all others is that America has historically been a very conservative country. The notion of the Democrats as the party of government results from a historical accident: In the mid-20th century, because of the great depression, followed almost immediately by the second world war, Democrats controlled the presidency for 20 years. Leaving aside this exceptional Roosevelt-Truman period, however, Democrats have retained the presidency for more than two consecutive terms only twice. Even during the 1920s, when the corruption of the Harding administration was followed by the vacuity of the Coolidge administration, Democratic nominees remained unelectable. Only with economic calamity were the cards reshuffled.

This reshuffling proved temporary. It is likely that the country would have reverted to conservatism regardless, but the Democrats’ embrace of the civil rights movement cost them whatever advantage they still retained. Lyndon Johnson predicted that by signing the 1964 Civil Rights Act he was passing political control to the Republicans for a generation at least.

Republicans won the very next election, and seven out of the next ten. In 1968 Richard Nixon formed an alliance with southerners who abandoned the Democratic party—completing a shift that had been coming for over a decade—and the US has been Republican ever since. The situation has, if anything, become more pronounced in the last decade, despite Bill Clinton’s two terms. According to recent polling conducted by Stan Greenberg, almost 60 per cent of southerners now identify themselves as Republican, as do 63 per cent of white men under the age of 50 nationwide, 56 per cent of white men over the age of 65, and 72 per cent of those who consider themselves evangelical Christians. The bar for Democrats is therefore set almost impossibly high, and a Democratic victory must be regarded as a fluke. It isn’t enough for the party to field a demonstrably superior candidate or even to present policy choices more in line with American thinking and economic self-interest (all of which in fact occurred in 2004). For a plurality of American voters, casting a Republican ballot has become habitual, a default position, an automatic choice. It is a form of brand loyalty and self-definition, as irrational and as difficult to eradicate as the choice of cigarette or beer. As Michael Lind suggests, the widely trumpeted role of the religious right, and the role of ideologues generally, are easy to exaggerate. Most voters don’t vote ideologically; a distressing number don’t even vote knowledgably.




more
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jerkyboy
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Username: Jerkyboy

Post Number: 45
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 7:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pardon the interruption, but who has the time to read so many long winded posts and articles?

Just curious(like george).
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Mustt_mustt
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Username: Mustt_mustt

Post Number: 214
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 8:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You don't have to but you could become a little more intllectually curious unlike George....
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Mark Fuhrman
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Username: Mfpark

Post Number: 1167
Registered: 9-2001


Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 8:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

this immanent inauguration of the Lord of Misrule

Not to parse too much, but did he really mean "immanent" or "imminent"?

see, someone actually read all this windy prose}
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Mark Fuhrman
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Username: Mfpark

Post Number: 1168
Registered: 9-2001


Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 8:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of wind-blown prose, I just read Bush's speech, and I did not see a lot of unusual religious pontification in it. In fact, it read pretty well, much better than his last one.

My thought throughout was, pretty speech but talk is cheap. Let's see you really stand up to tyranny in Saudi Arabia or Russia or China. Let's see you really insist on equality and freedom as a precondition for others to deal with us (as he says in the speech).

I always feel he says one thing and does another.
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Robert Livingston
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Username: Rob_livingston

Post Number: 728
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 9:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bush's administration has been defined by lofty rhetoric and cowardly misdeeds.
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jerkyboy
Citizen
Username: Jerkyboy

Post Number: 48
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 9:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now bobby,

Was that comment really necessary?
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Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio

Post Number: 1742
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 9:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does a bear shi* in the woods ?.
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Face
Citizen
Username: Face

Post Number: 495
Registered: 5-2001


Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 9:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good point CJC, Hillary Rodham Clinton has studied the results of the last election. Since she wants to be president it becomes obvious that in order to do so she must appeal to American voters. Turns out those voters are generally a religious bunch. So Wednesday night during a speech at a fund-raising dinner for an organization that promotes faith-based solutions to social problems.

"There is no contradiction between support for faith-based initiatives and upholding our constitutional principles."

BTW Hillary also said religious people should be allowed to "live out their faith in the public square." Does this mean Maplewood-South Orange School District should allow Christmas music?
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Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston

Post Number: 731
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 9:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My God, Face, you've discovered that politicians sometimes play politics.
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jerkyboy
Citizen
Username: Jerkyboy

Post Number: 50
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well it looks like hilary rotten wants to be baptized(sp?)
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro

Post Number: 624
Registered: 5-2004


Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 3:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Face and jerkyboy, the Clinton thing was already debunked as a "new" political ploy, as she and Bill have, for a long time, supported faith-based initiatives.

There are lots of reasons to dislike H. Clinton. This isn't one of them.

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